More model ideas

[Wickham Green too]

7 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

... Surely they would at least include the non-gangwayed (e.g. c2c) versions in the tooling options. ...

376s get surprisingly close to Margate !

[County of Yorkshire]

Some new pre-war coaching stock from any of the GWR, LMS or LNER would be good to see. I still find astonishing that you cannot buy any of the following coaches to modern RTR standards: a GWR dining car and full brake, a pre-war LMS composite corridor or brake composite corridor, or a pre-war LNER corridor brake third or composite corridor. 
 

Surely a range of GWR sunshine coaches, LMS period I or II coaches, or some LNER Gresley coaches in a wider variety of diagrams then Hornby have thus far produced (and without tumblehome issues!) would sell like hot cakes? This stock is an essential part of the British railway scene 1924-1965.

 

And that’s nothing to say of pre-grouping corridor stock also, some of which was quite long-lived! 

It will be extremely interesting to see how well the forthcoming Dapol GWR corridor toplights sell. 
 

CoY 

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

a GWR dining car and full brake, a

 

Yessy pleezy for a Collett 57' BG!

 

GW restaurant cars are long overdue a visit from the new tooling fairy; the Hornby Railroad model is somewhat inadequate.  I wonder if manufacturers are shying away from them because the Collett designs that lasted in service up to around 1960 were substantially reworked by Hawksworth after the war, and the Hawksworthised versions looke radically different, mainly because larger round-cornered windows with 4-piece sliding ventilators replaced the Collett arrangements.  The result, IMHO, was a very handsome coach, especially in post-1956 lined maroon!  For a 4mm RTR producer, there would be an element of 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' if only one version were produced, whichever one it was.  One is reminded of the Airfix Centenaries, the Beclawat windows being unsuitable for much of the vehicles' service lives.

 

There must have been a reason for Hawksworth's wholesale updating of the Westerns' (both late Great and early Region) catering stock, but I have no idea what it was.  Some were painted in the WR 1956 chocolate & cream livery to run with named expresses until they were replaced by mk1 vehicles, and these looked magnificent!

 

Academic for anyone modelling the Tondu Valleys in the 50s; first class was only a rumour up in the mountain fastnesses, and catering vehicles would have been considered semi-mythical...  Although they would have rumbled across the junctions at Tondu when the diversionary routes were in use.

[Tim Dubya]

Talking of coaches...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did I ever mention LSWR Ironclads?

 

[ivor the engine]

Or Night Ferry sleepers !

[Dunsignalling]

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Yessy pleezy for a Collett 57' BG!

 

GW restaurant cars are long overdue a visit from the new tooling fairy; the Hornby Railroad model is somewhat inadequate.  I wonder if manufacturers are shying away from them because the Collett designs that lasted in service up to around 1960 were substantially reworked by Hawksworth after the war, and the Hawksworthised versions looke radically different, mainly because larger round-cornered windows with 4-piece sliding ventilators replaced the Collett arrangements.  The result, IMHO, was a very handsome coach, especially in post-1956 lined maroon!  For a 4mm RTR producer, there would be an element of 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' if only one version were produced, whichever one it was.  One is reminded of the Airfix Centenaries, the Beclawat windows being unsuitable for much of the vehicles' service lives.

 

There must have been a reason for Hawksworth's wholesale updating of the Westerns' (both late Great and early Region) catering stock, but I have no idea what it was.  Some were painted in the WR 1956 chocolate & cream livery to run with named expresses until they were replaced by mk1 vehicles, and these looked magnificent!

 

Academic for anyone modelling the Tondu Valleys in the 50s; first class was only a rumour up in the mountain fastnesses, and catering vehicles would have been considered semi-mythical...  Although they would have rumbled across the junctions at Tondu when the diversionary routes were in use.

 

Catering vehicles are always "difficult" for r-t-r manufacturers, as they will mainly appeal to those with large main-line layouts but are only required in limited numbers even for them.

 

For those with "real estate" limitations restricting them to 4-6 coach trains a Buffet Car might seem credible but a Dining Pair will look a bit excessive, even with Rule 1 in force.

 

I've never been sure if Hornby's provision of the Gresley RB, Maunsell RF and open saloons has encouraged or deterred them from doing more. I suspect new-tool GWR and LMS vehicles would have appeared alongside the current-standard Hawksworth, Collett and Stanier ranges had the sales assessments been positive. Given that Hornby don't even seem to consider tooling a 60' Stanier P3 CK worthwhile, I'll not hold my breath.

 

As for Accurascale (or anyone else) committing to Restaurant cars etc., I think that would be dependent on the production of a matching selection of vehicles that don't directly duplicate highly competent models that are already out there from Bachmann and Hornby.  

 

GWR Centenaries would certainly fit that requirement, but producing a full set would be quite an undertaking. IIRC there were about eight different diagrams included in the usual formations of 11 or 12, including handed brakes....

 

Maybe a range of Stanier P2 stock might be a less daunting prospect? 

 

John

Edited November 15, 2023 by Dunsignalling
punctuation

[St. Simon]

On 14/11/2023 at 11:12, Legend said:

I get the feeling there are model companies sniffing around these multiple units  that have for whatever reason been put off (perhaps cost) and others have been scared off from doing them in the process .

 

Hi,

 

The reason for no announcements yet is that almost all the companies have now adopted a 'late stage announcement' process whereby models are not announced until the model is in tooling or later, and as developing a multiple unit takes a while, it could be a long time before we see any of these multiple units appear.

 

Having said that, a 'Legacy' Electrostar (Class 375, 376, 377, 378) is just a bit of a money pit, several variations in tooling required (requiring several different body toolings rather than just slides) for only a handful of liveries and whilst they are a lot around, at the prices they will be selling at (probably), will people be willing to buy enough to sustain the investment. I don't think they represent a viable business case for a model manufacturer.

 

Simon 

[WCML100]

38 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

The reason for no announcements yet is that almost all the companies have now adopted a 'late stage announcement' process whereby models are not announced until the model is in tooling or later, and as developing a multiple unit takes a while, it could be a long time before we see any of these multiple units appear.

 

Having said that, a 'Legacy' Electrostar (Class 375, 376, 377, 378) is just a bit of a money pit, several variations in tooling required (requiring several different body toolings rather than just slides) for only a handful of liveries and whilst they are a lot around, at the prices they will be selling at (probably), will people be willing to buy enough to sustain the investment. I don't think they represent a viable business case for a model manufacturer.

 

Simon 

 

I would disagree with the Electrostar range being a money pit. It is almost certain they will get done at some point with the area they cover. You have also missed off a couple... with the total Electrostar family being the 375, 376 (doubt this would be done to major differences to the others), 377, 379 and 387's (missed out the odd balls on purpose) being all incredibly similar with minor differences such as bonded ribbon compared to gasket glazing being the obvious one, the rest are things such as third rail pick ups and OHLE pantographs.

 

As of the amount of liveries that I can think of covering these units, there is a lot and good investment on tooling compared to the areas covered and livery variants offered in my opinion. Liveries include the variants of South Eastern (ex connect livery), South Eastern Blue, Southern, Gat Ex Red, Thameslink, First CC, GWR Green, Heathrow Express, C2C, National Express (Stanstead Express), Greater Anglia (Stanstead Express) to nam e some I can think of. Even within that there are variations and cross over periods where some were rebranded for some time opening up other livery variations and possibilities. 

 

Agree for sure they won't be cheap and that will put a lot of people off. But, and it is a big but... If anyone is going to be able to proceed a cost effect yet accurate multiple unit, then Accurascale is probably our best bet - especially if their Irish Multiple units are anything to go by. Hopefully it will only be a matter of time - I wouldn't be in the market for one myself, as I strictly limit myself to models that have worked through my chosen location to model but would be tempted if they came along... and I think it would be good for everyone who wants more multiple units to made in the future - I would argue that the Electrostar family is the big obvious one miss out currently... If that goes well then it will open the door up for other units too in time.

 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, WCML100 said:

If anyone is going to be able to proceed a cost effect yet accurate multiple unit, then Accurascale is probably our best bet - especially if their Irish Multiple units are anything to go by.

 

Or Revolution if their 180 is anything to go by price wise. However I think I read something about them not doing it in OO as someone else was.

 

However....

 

I expect a 185 would be far simpler to tool, cheaper and offer far more geographical interest than the Electrostars.

Edited November 15, 2023 by TomScrut

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Well we have the Warley new announcement to wait and see what it is............

[St. Simon]

4 minutes ago, WCML100 said:

 

I would disagree with the Electrostar range being a money pit. It is almost certain they will get done at some point with the area they cover. You have also missed off a couple... with the total Electrostar family being the 375, 376 (doubt this would be done to major differences to the others), 377, 379 and 387's (missed out the odd balls on purpose) being all incredibly similar with minor differences such as bonded ribbon compared to gasket glazing being the obvious one, the rest are things such as third rail pick ups and OHLE pantographs.

 

As of the amount of liveries that I can think of covering these units, there is a lot and good investment on tooling compared to the areas covered and livery variants offered in my opinion. Liveries include the variants of South Eastern (ex connect livery), South Eastern Blue, Southern, Gat Ex Red, Thameslink, First CC, GWR Green, Heathrow Express, C2C, National Express (Stanstead Express), Greater Anglia (Stanstead Express) to nam e some I can think of. Even within that there are variations and cross over periods where some were rebranded for some time opening up other livery variations and possibilities. 

 

Agree for sure they won't be cheap and that will put a lot of people off. But, and it is a big but... If anyone is going to be able to proceed a cost effect yet accurate multiple unit, then Accurascale is probably our best bet - especially if their Irish Multiple units are anything to go by. Hopefully it will only be a matter of time - I wouldn't be in the market for one myself, as I strictly limit myself to models that have worked through my chosen location to model but would be tempted if they came along... and I think it would be good for everyone who wants more multiple units to made in the future - I would argue that the Electrostar family is the big obvious one miss out currently... If that goes well then it will open the door up for other units too in time.

 

 

Hi,

 

The original Electrostars (Class 375, Class 377/1, Class 377/2, Class 377/3, Class 377/4, Class 377/5, Class 376 and Class 378) only really are South Eastern White, South Eastern Blue, Southern, First Capital Connect, London Overground White and London Overground Black, but would need at least 12 sets (body, underframe, interiors) of tooling (assuming that some of the body shells and underframe are similar, I haven't looked into it enough), which would be an eye watering amount of capital to be spent for what would appear in the catalogue as quite similar models for a high price (whoever makes them).  If you were to look at doing just the 375s and 377s, then that is still half a dozen sets of toolings for 4 livery options.

 

Some of the differences are minor, but some do require new body shell toolings (front end lighting arrangement, glazing type, window layout and inset doors), it is far simpler to have new body toolings for this sort of difference rather than slides etc.)

 

The 2nd Generation sets (Class 377/6, Class 377/7, Class 379 and Class 387) may be a much more viable model as they share a common body shell, and appear in a far wider range of liveries compared with the tooling suite, but then again, I can't see that many people wanting a C2C, Heathrow Express (particularly as that would require additional tooling for ETCS details) or National Express liveries, so it still a big gamble.

 

I would agree that Electrostars will be done and should be done, but from a business case point of view, I'm not sure if it adds up.

 

Simon

[NXEA!]

A 387 would be a much better proposition for a manufacturer than 375’s or 377’s - much more livery variety, and much more geographic spread. 
 

They have previously operated or currently operate on Thameslink/MML, Great Northern lines out of Kings Cross to Peterborough and Kings Lynn, Brighton Main Line plus Coastway, the LTS lines, and the GWML as far as Cardiff. Liveries you’ve got a choice of C2C white with blue doors, GatEx red, Heathrow Express silver, GWR green and original white with Southern green doors. And then lots of different branding on base livery variations within that. 
 

Given for a while you could see GatEx Red, C2C white and GWR Green as far as west as Cardiff including 12-car formations of all three, and on GN you can currently see mixed livery combos of white with Green doors, white with blue doors, GatEx red and GWR green, they could sell quite well. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by NXEA!

[AMJ]

Many of the smaller locos can be accommodated on layouts of all sizes.  Just look at how many shunters/trip locos seem to sell well.  As most BR classes of shunters are/have been done then there will be scope for more steam of similar size to the J52

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Well we have the Warley new announcement to wait and see what it is............

 

I'm kinda hoping its something new to RTR rather than just an upgrade of something already available

[WCML100]

11 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I'm kinda hoping its something new to RTR rather than just an upgrade of something already available

If I had to hedge my bets, i imagine a newly tooled item and the announcement of the Hattons FEA tooling being purchased. 
 

This was hinted at during an email newsletter some time ago with the stobart 92 pulling some gbrf FEA-S wagons. 

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Having said that, a 'Legacy' Electrostar (Class 375, 376, 377, 378) is just a bit of a money pit, several variations in tooling required (requiring several different body toolings rather than just slides) for only a handful of liveries and whilst they are a lot around, at the prices they will be selling at (probably), will people be willing to buy enough to sustain the investment. I don't think they represent a viable business case for a model manufacturer.

 

Simon 

 

1 hour ago, WCML100 said:

 

I would disagree with the Electrostar range being a money pit. It is almost certain they will get done at some point with the area they cover. You have also missed off a couple... with the total Electrostar family being the 375, 376 (doubt this would be done to major differences to the others), 377, 379 and 387's (missed out the odd balls on purpose) being all incredibly similar with minor differences such as bonded ribbon compared to gasket glazing being the obvious one, the rest are things such as third rail pick ups and OHLE pantographs.

 

As of the amount of liveries that I can think of covering these units, there is a lot and good investment on tooling compared to the areas covered and livery variants offered in my opinion. Liveries include the variants of South Eastern (ex connect livery), South Eastern Blue, Southern, Gat Ex Red, Thameslink, First CC, GWR Green, Heathrow Express, C2C, National Express (Stanstead Express), Greater Anglia (Stanstead Express) to nam e some I can think of. Even within that there are variations and cross over periods where some were rebranded for some time opening up other livery variations and possibilities. 

 

Agree for sure they won't be cheap and that will put a lot of people off. But, and it is a big but... If anyone is going to be able to proceed a cost effect yet accurate multiple unit, then Accurascale is probably our best bet - especially if their Irish Multiple units are anything to go by. Hopefully it will only be a matter of time - I wouldn't be in the market for one myself, as I strictly limit myself to models that have worked through my chosen location to model but would be tempted if they came along... and I think it would be good for everyone who wants more multiple units to made in the future - I would argue that the Electrostar family is the big obvious one miss out currently... If that goes well then it will open the door up for other units too in time.

 

 

If a manufacturer thinks that 4-CEPs will sell at current prices - being Southern Region only - and for most of that time almost limited to Kent only, I really can't see why the economics of an Electrostar wouldn't add up since they are not confined to the third rail network and are seen alongside most of the current passenger and freight locos and rolling stock. And the current scene - whatever that may be at any given time - always seems to have a good following. So I agree it should only be a matter of time - thought let's hope it's not left too late an current interest has moved on to newer trains.

[Dunsignalling]

8 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

 

snip 

  ......Electrostar ....... let's hope it's not left too late an current interest has moved on to newer trains.

 

Maybe that could be an issue.

 

Do manufacturers perhaps consider that many who are interested in the modern scene like to keep up with what is current and aren't (yet?) willing  to "settle down" to a fixed modelling era.

 

John

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[nightstar.train]

I'm hoping that the Mk5s will be announced as going to a new operator, and Accurascale will announce another run of them in a new livery.  Singles of the sleeper coaches would be good too, to strengthen my sets. And of course a 73/9 to haul them. 

[carefreeroz]

My gut feeling is that Accurascale will probably do a diesel multiple unit first, before tackling an EMU. Perhaps a 2/3 car DMU. Would love to see the 170 turbostar in all its various liveries and formations. Lots of commercial potential me thinks, although I appreciate Bachmann have done it in the past.

Has any manufacturer done the Class 165/166 Networker Turbo family?

[WCML100]

6 minutes ago, carefreeroz said:

My gut feeling is that Accurascale will probably do a diesel multiple unit first, before tackling an EMU. Perhaps a 2/3 car DMU. Would love to see the 170 turbostar in all its various liveries and formations. Lots of commercial potential me thinks, although I appreciate Bachmann have done it in the past.

Has any manufacturer done the Class 165/166 Networker Turbo family?

 

166 has been done by Bachmann previously but not for a number of years has it been produced. It would be nice to see an updated one and the same way as the recent multiple unit offerings from Bachmann have been done. Hopefully they do a 165 & 166 in an 'updated' tooling  as I don't think there is much wrong with the current one except for the lack of dcc and the poor rendition of the lights which are relatively simple to update I would imagine. 

[Wickham Green too]

It's a long time since any electric Networkers put in an appearance from the trade - obviously not as widespread as their diesel brethren - or the Electrostars - but .................................

[Karl]

A second batch of manors could be on the cards given the first batch appears all but sold at Accurascale.

[gwrrob]

@AY Mod has posted an interview he had with @Accurascale Fran with a teaser near the end concerning their Warley announcement. It's an OO gauge steam locomotive and much requested apparently. Let the froth begin.

 

 

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

On 15/11/2023 at 19:57, gwrrob said:

It's an OO gauge steam locomotive and much requested apparently. Let the froth begin.

 

Surely it's not an SE&CR O1 Class... 🙈

Edited November 17, 2023 by greatcoleswoodhalt

[Craig1989]

Could it be a class 40 as some of them were steam heat and had boilers? 
 

cheers Craig