The Night Mail

[iL Dottore]

5 hours ago, polybear said:

…. I was pretty horrified to learn that the UK booted them out after the war ended, with many apparently being persecuted, tortured and murdered afterwards.  Not our finest hour…

Nor was sending the Cossacks back to the USSR to the welcoming arms of Stalin’s KGB execution squads. (and far too many of the Cossacks sent back weren’t even “traitorous Russian citizens“ as Stalin claimed and far too many were innocent women and children as well).

”Uncle Joe” did well out of Yalta….

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by iL Dottore
Posted before completing

[SM42]

2 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Nor was sending the Cossacks back to the USSR to the welcoming arms of Stalin’s KGB execution squads. (and far too many of the Cossacks sent back weren’t even “traitorous Russian citizens“ as Stalin claimed and far too many were innocent women and children as well).

”Uncle Joe” did well out of Yalta….

 

 

Uncle Joe did quite well as FDR needed him on the fight against Japan

Churchill was largely sidelined by this point, but cannot claim to be totally innocent in what came out of Yalta 

 

Apparently, if unconditional surrender had not been imposed on Germany the world may have been a lot different with the fight taken to Russia by the  former enemies. 

Whether there was a political will to do so and confidence that the people would follow is debatable 

 

Andy

[PhilJ W]

8 minutes ago, petethemole said:

Years ago, probably late '70s, I read a newspaper article about a group of Ukrainians who had surrendered in France while serving in the Wehrmacht.  They wouldn't go home as they knew it meant certain death.  For some obsure reason that I don't recall, they ended up being employed by the MOD clearing WW2 minefield in UK, which they were still doing at the time of the article.

 

2 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Nor was sending the Cossacks back to the USSR to the welcoming arms of Stalin’s KGB execution squads. (and far too many of the Cossacks sent back weren’t even “traitorous Russian citizens“ as Stalin claimed and far too many were innocent women and children as well).

”Uncle Joe” did well out of Yalta….

 

There was certainly no love lost between the Ukrainians and the Russians. This dates back to the Ukrainian famine of the 1920's. The Ukrainians had supported the 'White' Russians against the Bolsheviks. When the Bolsheviks won Stalin was appointed commissar of the Ukraine and set about 'punishing' the Ukrainians for their support of the Whites. This he did by emptying the granaries leaving the Ukrainians to starve in what was the worst famine to occur in Europe in peacetime. The famine was so bad that some resorted to cannibalism.

[Tony_S]

23 minutes ago, SM42 said:

ound themselves suddenly in the "wrong" country and millions of people were repatriated from their homes in the borderlands (Kresy)  to their new homes somewhere, anywhere,  else. 

We knew someone who as a young child displaced in a Poland  (with her parents) ended up in Malaya before finally getting settled in the UK. 

[Tony_S]

There are still a few conflicts persisting today following on from Stalin’s relocation policies. Some were punishment others were attempts to “Russify’ locals in for instance the Baltic states. 
Tony

[Dave Hunt]

I suppose you've all heard about the farmer who was visited by some surveyors who were involved in drawing up the borders between Poland and Russia in the 1940s. The border was to run right through the middle of his farm so the surveyors decided to bend the rules slightly and ask him which country he wanted to be in. Without hesitation he replied Poland. One of the surveyors asked why not Russia, to which the farmer replied, "What, and have to put up with those rotten Russian winters?"

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

Stalin also went in for ethnic cleansing in a big way. Just after the war he moved the entire (German) population of East Prussia to what was East Germany. That is now a part of Russia cut off from the rest of the country.

[SM42]

I did read of an elderly lady who had lived in 4 countries but had never moved house.

 

Andy

[Northmoor]

27 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

There was certainly no love lost between the Ukrainians and the Russians. This dates back to the Ukrainian famine of the 1920's. The Ukrainians had supported the 'White' Russians against the Bolsheviks. When the Bolsheviks won Stalin was appointed commissar of the Ukraine and set about 'punishing' the Ukrainians for their support of the Whites. This he did by emptying the granaries leaving the Ukrainians to starve in what was the worst famine to occur in Europe in peacetime. The famine was so bad that some resorted to cannibalism.

 

I remember once hearing the statistic - which seems believable - that despite two World Wars and several regional ones which killed millions (Korea, Vietnam, Iran-Iraq etc.), worldwide, more people died in the 21st Century at the hands of their own governments than by enemy action in all the wars combined.  Left-wing governments have killed considerably more than right-wing ones, although that's probably because there have been more of the former than the latter and it is often hard to identify which is which once they're in power.......

[laurenceb]

When it came to genocide Starlin made Hitler look like a bumbling amateur

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

 

I remember once hearing the statistic - which seems believable - that despite two World Wars and several regional ones which killed millions (Korea, Vietnam, Iran-Iraq etc.), worldwide, more people died in the 21st Century at the hands of their own governments than by enemy action in all the wars combined.  Left-wing governments have killed considerably more than right-wing ones, although that's probably because there have been more of the former than the latter and it is often hard to identify which is which once they're in power.......

Arguably Stalin was even worse than Hitler. But to put it in perspective stop thinking in terms of right or left but think of a circle with democracy at the top and Hitler and Stalin at the bottom. Sadly its a difficult job to balance on the top of the circle as a previous US president demonstrated.

Edited December 24, 2021 by PhilJ W

[bbishop]

Aren't we cheerful?

 

Anyway, if I don't get a chance later (Midnight Mass and Christmas Day service to organise) may I wish all NMers a Happy Christmas. Bill

[Tony_S]

37 minutes ago, bbishop said:

NMers

Is this a suitable NMer theme song?

 

Tony

[SM42]

The great cake swap has taken place. 

Where there were two varieties there are now 4 

 

Carp is frying, soups are warming up and Christmas dinner is imminent.

 

May I take this opportunity to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year wherever you may be. 

 

Wesolych Swiat

 

Andy

[polybear]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

It's a history that many do not know in the West and it was largely swept under the rug by the ruling authorities.

 

 

And it's still going on - though not always by the ruling authorities (e.g. removing statues etc. of "distasteful" historical figures in the UK).  For ruling authorities there's the current scandal of the Tiananmen Square Monuments in HK, no doubt driven by China

 

39 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

Is this a suitable NMer theme song?

 

Tony

 

Perfect I'd say....

[simontaylor484]

The Canadian Army was sent into Denmark to stop the Russian steamroller from taking them up as well.

There was a plan to rearm the Whermacht and turn on the Soviets if they didn't stop their advances at the predetermined points.

 

It could be said that Op Barberossa was helped by Stalin purging his best Generals.

There used to be a Polish social club in Barnsley I don't know if it's still there. 

Before I wish you all Merry Christmas may i take a moment to remember those killed in the fall of Hong Kong 80 years ago tomorrow and all those poor unfortunates military and civilian alike that were imprisoned by the Japanese.

 

[Doncaster Green]

12 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

 

may i take a moment to remember those killed in the fall of Hong Kong 80 years ago tomorrow and all those poor unfortunates military and civilian alike that were imprisoned by the Japanese.

 

You may, and by extension, after all the discussion of the war in Europe, can we remember all those involved in the Forgotten War in Burma and Malaya.  An Uncle I never knew died at the siege of Kohima.

 

John

[J. S. Bach]

12 hours ago, pH said:

Today's quiz - what is this? It's in a residential neighbourhood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A clue - I wouldn't be supposed to post this in the 'Early Risers' topic.

It looks like an electrical substation cleverly disguised as a residence. It just might be a traction power sub, at that.

[Happy Hippo]

5 hours ago, petethemole said:

 

 

For bus fans, an ex-LT bus, RT32 of the prewar order, built 1940-42, at Stewartby in 1964.

 

Still a Private after 22 years service.

 

He must have been a very naughty bus sometime in his career.

[DenysW]

RT1499 (aka KGK 758) appears to have been a better bus, and has made it into preservation, with internet pictures in both red and green liveries. Better, but now confused.

[Dave Hunt]

All the best to denizens of TNM and may Santa bring you the modelling things you've asked for. Have a good Christmas folks.

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Doncaster Green said:

You may, and by extension, after all the discussion of the war in Europe, can we remember all those involved in the Forgotten War in Burma and Malaya.  An Uncle I never knew died at the siege of Kohima.

 

John

And those captured at Singapore. A colleague was a Royal Marine, part of the company of HMS Prince of Wales. All the marines were put ashore at Singapore and they were captured when Singapore fell, he spent the rest of the war working on the Burma death railway. My dad was luckier, the troopship he was on was diverted to Calcutta (as it was called then). The troopship ahead of his sailed into Singapore after it had fallen.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Afternoon all,

 

A very happy holidays and new year to all those bastions of muppetering who make up TNM.

 

From the Florence Ave Locomotive Works,

 

Douglas

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Still a Private after 22 years service.

 

He must have been a very naughty bus sometime in his career.

I was going to post an answer to the same post but its disappeared?

[John Besley]

21 hours ago, figworthy said:

 

Of course they have door seals.  What no one has suggested is that they work.  My experience of ~100K miles in a variety of them is that their main function was to stop the metal bits of the doors rattling against the metal bits of the body.

 

As memory serves, the engine oil seals were only marginally more successful.  A friend referred to it as a lossy lubrication system.

 

Adrian

 

We used to say you only worried if the Defender wasn't dripping oil as it meant there wasn't any left, then you worried