The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

8 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

They were just resurrecting an earlier variant of VW.....

 ....... with built-in cooling fan for use by the Long Range Desert Group.

 

Dave

[br2975]

13 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

It could even be brought up into the diesel era with class 37 and a 95xx 'Teddy Bear' and various DMUs to provide passenger services, but even Brian (br2975) would be hard pushed to run that as a C2 operation.

You have me there Mr. Hippo.

.

Cwmbach was always too busy for my liking; fed by a constant stream of trains ex-Merthyr Vale Colliery with a reversal at Stormstown, or from Mardy Colliery with a reversal at Ponty; all to feed Dante's Inferno at Abercwmboi, the place that smoked out the asphyxiated locals so that middle England could be smoke free.

.

In later years, the  Aberdare pilot, a 350hp Cl.08 was the only shunter in the valleys rostered to work Sundays, shunting Cwmbach & Abercwmboi.

[SM42]

Modern car companies seem to like putting the air intake in the wheel arch ( nice and wet) or behind a headlight .

Neither of these are ideal spots for flood water but are good for cool air 

 

I once drove my dad's Austin Princess through a ford. 

Air intake on the top of the engine, so no worries there

What I didn't consider, was that it was  a wet February and there was a nice stopper wave created by the edge of the roadway

 

Mid way the front if the car started to float, I turned into it and used the front wheels as propellers. 

A loud scream emanated from the passenger seat as water came up through the gearstick gater and soaked my then girlfriend. 

 

We got through without further fuss. 

I then remembered the sign we had just passed that said " Ford, 100yds and 300 yds"

Fortunately there was a ford less alternative route out as I didn't fancy trying my luck a second time

 

Andy

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Evening all,

 

Yesterday I did I finished an exceedingly good book. L.T.C Rolt’s biography of Isembard Kingdom Brunel. It is an exhaustive account of the man and I would highly recommend it. 
 

In other news, I have spent a good 5 hours today on the lathe attempting to make better looking salter springs for the engine. The first time I was successful I went to thread the peice and discovered that the 9 BA die was in fact sorely lacking in threading. In fact it had none at all! So that piece was ruined. The next 3 snapped off in the lathe, and attempt 4 had a rubbish surface finish. As far as I can tell I have the wrong brass alloy, which I got from Lowes. More work will be done tomorrow.

 

Douglas

[TheQ]

8 hours ago, Tony_S said:

According to the man at the off road Land Rover experience we went to,  the new Land Rovers float away if the water is too deep. The older models sink. 

Even an old series or defender will float ..... If,

 

 

 

 

You have that incredibly rare thing...

 

 

 

 

Door seals that work...

 

 

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Even an old series or defender will float ..... If,

 

 

 

 

You have that incredibly rare thing...

 

 

 

 

Door seals that work...

 

 

Flat roofs and door seals that work seem be 2 things that us Brits just can't do! The seals on the Minor aren't terrifically effective either.

[polybear]

7 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

They were just resurrecting an earlier variant of VW......

 

Schwimmwagen:

 

 

 

 

Bear wants.......

 

7 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 ....... with built-in cooling fan for use by the Long Range Desert Group.

 

Dave

 

I thought it was a mechanical version of a Hippo's Tail, useful when retreating....

 

2 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

The first time I was successful I went to thread the peice and discovered that the 9 BA die was in fact sorely lacking in threading. In fact it had none at all! So that piece was ruined. The next 3 snapped off in the lathe, and attempt 4 had a rubbish surface finish. As far as I can tell I have the wrong brass alloy, which I got from Lowes. More work will be done tomorrow.

 

 

Other options would include:

The wrong outside diameter for a 9 BA thread

Not using tapping compound

Not backing off the die stock to break and clear the swarf.

 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Even an old series or defender will float ..... If,

 

 

 

 

You have that incredibly rare thing...

 

 

 

 

Door seals that work...

 

 

Series Land Rovers have door seals? 

[rockershovel]

The earlier point about modern cars having air intakes under the wheel arches is a good reminder why NOT to drive through puddles to make a splash! 

 

For the definitive story of amphibious 4x4, Google for the story of Ben Carlin and Half-safe. Most militaries tried amphibious 4x4 around that time. 

 

 

[SM42]

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

The earlier point about modern cars having air intakes under the wheel arches is a good reminder why NOT to drive through puddles to make a splash! 

 

 

 

I vaguely recall the original Rensult Clio had the air intake pointiing to the ground just ahead of the front wheel.

It caused a lot of engine failures after a puddle was driven through.

 

IIRC it was a big enough problem to make it onto Watchdog

 

Andy

[Happy Hippo]

4 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Bear wants.......

 

 

I thought it was a mechanical version of a Hippo's Tail, useful when retreating....

 

 

 

 

It was a German vehicle, not Italian

[Tony_S]

50 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

It was a German vehicle, not Italian

I once read an article in a magazine about Italian armoured vehicles needing more reverse than forward gears. I mentioned this to my father and he got quite cross about criticism of Italian soldiers. 

[Happy Hippo]

10 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I once read an article in a magazine about Italian armoured vehicles needing more reverse than forward gears. I mentioned this to my father and he got quite cross about criticism of Italian soldiers. 

 The British CVR(T) family has a single gear box of five gears.  To change direction you used a separate direction selector, so this also gave you the same number of gears in reverse.  This is handy if you had to get out of a place quickly with no place to turn!  It also helps to keep the thicker armour (the engine) facing the enemy.

 

My father in law fought the Italians and Germans across North Africa and up through Italy.

 

He never commented about the Italians as a fighting force*, but was highly critical of their generally scruffy and unkempt appearance, the amount of general rubbish strewn about the place and the general cleanliness of locations they vacated.

 

*  The Italian Navy was particularly good.

[DenysW]

One of my History teachers had fought in Italy during WW2, and he reckoned that the Italians were ferocious, brave fighters - for something they believed in. In his case he's seen the ones who wanted to throw the Nazi occupiers out.

[Tony_S]

Just now, Happy Hippo said:

He never commented about the Italians as a fighting force*, but was highly critical of their generally scruffy and unkempt appearance, the amount of general rubbish strewn about the place and the general cleanliness of locations they vacated.

During the Ardennes Battle of the Bulge Dad’s regiment were supposed to be back somewhere re equipping with new tanks but got turned round and sent forwards with their existing tanks (Sherman). They were collecting some from other units. Dad and some others were sent to collect one from a Guards regiment. They were under orders to see it driven out having been given a non runner before. While waiting they were shouted at by a guards sergeant major for being a disgrace to the uniform and they looked a bunch of Chinese Army irregulars. At this point the scruffiest person mentioned that the Guards chap had forgotten “sir” on the end of his tirade. While waiting, one of Dad’s senior officers had come over before returning from a meeting. He did “apologise” for his and his mens appearance but mentioned they had been in action for the last few days and had been rather busy. Dad said the Guards tank was beautiful, with lovely paintwork, but not for long. 

[Happy Hippo]

8 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

The next 3 snapped off in the lathe, and attempt 4 had a rubbish surface finish. As far as I can tell I have the wrong brass alloy, which I got from Lowes. 

 

 

I bought  some brass rod from a reputable dealer to make some  10 BA studding.

 

Turning it down and trying to thread it was hopeless.  It had the consistency of hard cheese!

 

It was almost as if somebody had managed to electroplate white metal!

 

Other batches from the same supplier have been fine

[rockershovel]

The Italian reputation for low military standards originates in WW1, where they performed so poorly that British and  Commonwealth troops had to be sent to reinforce and stiffen the line. 

 

The Germans certainly didn't regard them highly, as allies or enemies and German views on this are a matter of record. 

 

They didn't perform well in Ethiopeia in the 1930s. The opening campaigns of WW2 saw  them heavily defeated by a small force of British regulars (the Western Desert Force) resulting in the German decision to reinforce them and control leadership (the creation of the Afrika Korps) 

 

It's also a matter of record that the British government didn't regard them as dangerous as PoWs, paroling them in large numbers as agricultural workers. 

 

 

[Tony_S]

25 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

The opening campaigns of WW2 saw  them heavily defeated

I think the words “opening campaigns “ may have something to do with it. The first use of tanks in North Africa by the American army wasn’t very successful but they did improve. Dad just didn’t like the inference by people who hadn’t been there about courage or lack of courage of Italians. He said he thought they fought well but Mussolini wasn’t worth dying for. 
Dad didn’t go to Italy after North Africa as he was wounded and by the time he was fit was training for Normandy. 

[Northmoor]

23 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I think the words “opening campaigns “ may have something to do with it. The first use of tanks in North Africa by the American army wasn’t very successful but they did improve. Dad just didn’t like the inference by people who hadn’t been there about courage or lack of courage of Italians. He said he thought they fought well but Mussolini wasn’t worth dying for. 
Dad didn’t go to Italy after North Africa as he was wounded and by the time he was fit was training for Normandy. 

The supposed "walkover" of Italian forces may have contributed to the disgraceful reference to British Forces in the Italian campaign as the "D-Day Dodgers".  If anything, the fighting in Italy was even more brutal than in Normandy after the June '44 landings.  Similarly, because France was overwhelmed quite quickly in 1940, it is assumed that French forces "gave in easily" and even today, tabloid headlines misrepresent these events to make Nationalistic insults.  The German's own records from the campaign show how untrue this was, France was simply overwhelmed by superior equipped forces advancing across a wide front never undertaken before, by anyone, but they fought back valiantly while they could.

[petethemole]

The Italians in North Africa had a substantial element of Libyan colonial troops who were fairly unreliable.  The Italian elite troops, such as the Bersaglieri and the armoured divisions seem to have fought well.  When retreating, the Italians were very fond of leaving booby traps.

 

 

[Tony_S]

2 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

The German's own records from the campaign show how untrue this was, France was simply overwhelmed by superior equipped forces advancing across a wide front never undertaken before, by anyone, but they fought back valiantly while they coul

I think geography had something to do with it too. That wide front was perfect  terrain for a mechanised army once those fortified borders had been bypassed. 
Going the other way in 1945 Dad was in the Ardennes in January, crossing the Rhine in March and chatting to Russians in Berlin a few months afterwards. 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I bought  some brass rod from a reputable dealer to make some  10 BA studding.

 

Turning it down and trying to thread it was hopeless.  It had the consistency of hard cheese!

 

It was almost as if somebody had managed to electroplate white metal!

 

Other batches from the same supplier have been fine

Hard cheese, thats the perfect term to describe it.

[rockershovel]

Italian military leadership in either World War certainly didn't command respect from any direction. The British troops nicknamed their German adversary "the Desert Fox" but his Italian counterpart was referred to as "Electric Whiskers". 

 

Leadership is critical in war. It was widely believed among the British leadership that the French army was beaten before a shot was fired, the best of its leadership slaughtered in Flanders in the previous conflict and the national will to resist, lacking. 

 

The Germans were seriously worried that the French and British would attack in Sept or Oct 1940. The Wehrmacht was committed in Poland, the actual implications of the German/Soviet Non Aggression Pact were unknown... yet the French and British sat passive in Flanders while time passed. 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, Tony_S said:

I think geography had something to do with it too. That wide front was perfect  terrain for a mechanised army once those fortified borders had been bypassed. 
Going the other way in 1945 Dad was in the Ardennes in January, crossing the Rhine in March and chatting to Russians in Berlin a few months afterwards. 

The German attack of May 1940 (Fall Gelb, Case Yellow) was widely predicted by a number of sources, being largely a revision in detail of  the Kaiserschlacht offensive of March 1918 which had worked very well in tactical terms. The subsequent defeat of the French (Fall Rot, Case Red) was heavily based upon the German plan of 1914. 

 

The Germans correctly understood that both plans had failed because both exceeded the mobility of pre-mechanised armies, and rectified that deficiency. 

 

The French ultimately chose the political solution, that the Germans would repeat the failed opening offensive of 1914 and built against that. Essentially it was politically unacceptable that the French Army would again be called upon to fight mass engagements in open terrain, with all that implied. 

 

I don't know my father's views of the French although an uncle who fought in North Africa and subsequently in France held them in very low regard, not least for their politically-driven internal command divisions.

[TheQ]

The Italian army had huge differences between the officer corp and the men. The officers in luxury, the men in very very poor conditions. The few professional troops they had were good. But their conscripted majority, were not interested in being there let alone fighting.

Much of the Italian military equipment was all show and no go. Their tanks for instance were generally so poor a Boyes rifle could penetrate the armour. Which was otherwise useless against any German tank.

As for the battles in Ethiopia / Eritrea there were 536 British and allied troops killed, the majority of the British and allied troop were Indian regiments... In 3000 Italian and 9000  Italian commanded local troops killed. Effectively it was a professional army against, a parade ground army..

my grandfather was there at the battle of Keren, as a CSM in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by TheQ