The Night Mail

[AndyID]

Watched "Darkest Hour" last night on Netflix. Good movie I thought. I have no first-hand accounts from relatives who served in WW2. Those that survived did not want to talk about it. My mum's brother died while serving in the RAF and she could not talk about it but I did take her and dad to FDR's Hyde Park and they were quite entranced.

 

On a more prosaic note one of the immersion heaters in our water tank was making a very funky sound, so I decided to replace it. I thought it best to replace the other one at the same time. Alas, when I applied the official wrench to unscrew the first heating element all that happened was I bent the tommy-bar. I suspect there is so much corrosion on the threads that it's effectively welded into the tank.

 

The tank is 26 years old so rather than risk a total disaster I'll pick up another tank tomorrow and replace the whole shooting match. The old tank is well beyond its expected life anyway. After I've removed it I'll try to find out just what might have happened if I'd applied even more torque with a 3/4 inch drive socket and a three foot extension. If that doesn't do It I might have to resort to the impact wrench

 

 

 

 

[iL Dottore]

18 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

It was a German vehicle, not Italian

That’s a bit unfair HH. In WWII the Italian troops were placed in an unenviable position: poorly trained, equipped and motivated (sent into a war nobody wanted and the country was ill prepared for on the whim of an ambitious politician - sound familiar?), despite this many units fought bravely and well. Ask any British or Commonwealth Soldier who came up against the Alpini or the Bersaglieri or various units of the Italian Navy (according to a recent book about the various campaigns in the mediterranean theatre, it was stated that the Italian Navy was one of the few things that Churchill was actually worried about). 

 

Nor must it be forgotten that until the post war reconstruction, Italy was a very poor country indeed - with a large part of the population living a hand-to-mouth subsistence - so why keep fighting (and probably get killed) why not surrender and get fed (fairly well) and be safe. After all, what did Mussolini ever do for the average Italian???

[jamie92208]

8 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

. After all, what did Mussolini ever do for the average Italian???

Wasn't he supposed to have got the trains to run on time.

 

Jamie

[iL Dottore]

3 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Wasn't he supposed to have got the trains to run on time.

 

Jamie

Allegedly….

[polybear]

8 hours ago, SM42 said:

Cakes are being baked right now  (one for us and one for a friend for a great cake swap tomorrow) 

 

 

Hang on a minute......SWAP??......No-one said anything about a SWAP......

 

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

Watched "Darkest Hour" last night on Netflix.

 

Bear watched "Hurricane" via the Fire Stick - all about the Polish Airmen in 303 Squadron; a reasonable film I thought - I was pretty horrified to learn that the UK booted them out after the war ended, with many apparently being persecuted, tortured and murdered afterwards.  Not our finest hour.

 

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

The tank is 26 years old so rather than risk a total disaster I'll pick up another tank tomorrow and replace the whole shooting match. The old tank is well beyond its expected life anyway. After I've removed it I'll try to find out just what might have happened if I'd applied even more torque with a 3/4 inch drive socket and a three foot extension. If that doesn't do It I might have to resort to the impact wrench

 

Bear predicts that once you've shelled out on a whole new setup then the old one will shift after all....

I recall some guy at work 35-ish years ago replacing his copper tank (foam insulated tanks were just appearing IIRC).  When asked how it went he replied:  "It took me f. hours to scrape all that packing off....."  

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

Wasn't he supposed to have got the trains to run on time.

 

Jamie

If he did, it was by the threat of being shot, not the best way to get people on your side in the long term.

Not been to Italy for a long time, a country I love. Friendly people, sunshine, lovely countryside, good food & wine.... and when I was last there, some fantastic old electric locos dating from the 1940's, with equally ancient rolling stock, some clerestory stock still in service I think.

[rockershovel]

The Polish airmen returned to the USSR were very a small minority of those who came, particular to that very delicate time around the cessation of hostilities when large forces were mobilised and in direct contact.

 

The British government had the particular problem of repatriating large numbers of liberated PoW in Soviet hands. Many of those returned (such as the Cossacks in German uniform) represented issues the British government had no interest in addressing. 

 

The British also carried out a little-known operation in the last days of hostilities, sending quite small forces to close off the Danish coast against Soviet opportunism, trusting that the Soviets would not treat that as a shooting matter....

 

Around 200,000 Poles were granted British nationality under the Polish Resettlement Act of 1947. One such couple lived near us in Cambridge in the 1960s; known only as Poppa and Momma, they had been reunited through who knows what tribulations and retained a deep fear of the police, all their lives. Poppa would appear on my mother's doorstep occasionally to ask her advice about his occasionally rather fractious dealings with the local Council, although their children took on this role as they grew up. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

.... nor must it be forgotten that until the post war reconstruction, Italy was a very poor country indeed - with a large part of the population living a hand-to-mouth subsistence - so why keep fighting (and probably get killed) why not surrender and get fed (fairly well) and be safe. After all, what did Mussolini ever do for the average Italian???

No 1 Son had an Italian classmate whose grandfather had arrived as a PoW, been placed as an agricultural worker, paroled following the events of 1943 and just remained. The grandfather was quite open about it; he got good wages for his work, his children went to school and mass in peace, why, the British even gave them a house! He thought post-1945 Britain was quite as good as the reports from America. 

[Dave Hunt]

A good friend of mine is of Italian parentage, his father having been a POW and his mother somehow managing to join him after the war. They live in Bedfordshire, which I think is where his father was put to work on a farm after arriving in U.K. and being judged not to be a potential escapee. His Dad used to say that the best thing he ever did was to get taken prisoner.

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

Several of my classmates at primary school in the late 50's, had an Italian parent who had been sent to work either on the farms or in the quarries.  We also had a Polish neighbour who had been in a concentration camp and had married a British soldier. She had the tattos and scarred hands and arms.  A lovely lady though who despite her scars could play the piano brilliantly.

 

Jamie

[Winslow Boy]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Wasn't he supposed to have got the trains to run on time.

 

Jamie

 

I also seem to recall that he demolished quite a few buildings in order to get a highway into Venice.

[Winslow Boy]

Just a quick line to thank everybody for there erudite postings about the French army. As I did state in my initial posting that there were more knowledgeable folk on here and so it proved.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

.... and when I was last there, some fantastic old electric locos dating from the 1940's, with equally ancient rolling stock, some clerestory stock still in service I think.

Many years ago, although based in the UK, I worked with a Professor of Medicine in Perugia. On a regular basis I would fly to Rome, take a Taxi to Roma Termini then catch a train to Foligno and change to the train to Perugia. The service between Foligno and Perugia nearly always used antique rolling stock and travel in 1st class was absolute (and slightly dusty) luxury: plush, well-sprung seats, velvet curtains at the windows, Art Deco lampshades (with low wattage incandescent bulbs) and plenty of space and leg room. An absolute delight.

 

I think First Class Rail Travel from this era (20s - 50s) was always luxurious, no matter what country or what railway company. I reckon that a 1st Class Passenger from that era - being shown the so-called “First Class” of British (and some other countries) TOCs - would exclaim “You call that First Class?”

[Doncaster Green]

When I lived in Plymouth in the 70's there were a couple of thriving Polish social clubs that, I believe, were started by Polish servicemen who had escaped here during WW2 and served in the RAF, the Navy and Free Polish Army.  They had joined the local darts leagues and matches against them were always good for plenty of laughs, some good food and a lot of late night drinking!

 

John

[Happy Hippo]

54 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Around 200,000 Poles were granted British nationality under the Polish Resettlement Act of 1947. One such couple lived near us in Cambridge in the 1960s; known only as Poppa and Momma, they had been reunited through who knows what tribulations and retained a deep fear of the police, all their lives. Poppa would appear on my mother's doorstep occasionally to ask her advice about his occasionally rather fractious dealings with the local Council, although their children took on this role as they grew up. 

When I was stationed at the vehicle depot at Ashchurch, there was a prefabricated building and allotment around the back of the married quarters that was occupied by an old Polish gentleman.

 

Looking back I now wonder if the powers that be knew he lived there, or whether he was a long term squatter?  He'd been there for so long, that everybody who got posted in over they years assumed he was there legally.

 

Come to think of it he may have been Russian:  Talk about hiding in plain sight by living in the middle of a military base.

[Tony_S]

7 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Come to think of it he may have been Russian:

The borders moved a bit during the 20th Century. Our Jewish relatives when their ancestors departed from central and Eastern Europe were from Poland and Russia but some were from what now would be Belarus. In Canada we were walking in the woods near Jasper and found a memorial to all those who had been interned in WW1, Due to border changes in Europe lots of Ukrainian immigrants were deemed to be enemy aliens and detained in work camps. 
Tony

[PhilJ W]

There is a large Polish community locally and many having made their homes here stayed after Brexit. There's quite a few Polish shops still doing a thriving trade. I do like some of the Polish food such as sopocka and the cream cheese.

5 hours ago, pH said:

Today's quiz - what is this? It's in a residential neighbourhood.

 

 

 

 

A clue - I wouldn't be supposed to post this in the 'Early Risers' topic.

A railroad depot?

[Tony_S]

1 minute ago, PhilJ W said:

A railroad depot?

It looks rather like the Wills crossing keepers house kit.

[SM42]

1 hour ago, Doncaster Green said:

When I lived in Plymouth in the 70's there were a couple of thriving Polish social clubs that, I believe, were started by Polish servicemen who had escaped here during WW2 and served in the RAF, the Navy and Free Polish Army.  They had joined the local darts leagues and matches against them were always good for plenty of laughs, some good food and a lot of late night drinking!

 

John

 

The SPK (ex servicemen clubs)  were a bit more than just  social clubs.

 

The fight for freedom didn't end when the Poles were sold out to appease Stalin and keep him in the fight against Japan in 1945

 

The SPK was involved in many activities related to promoting Poland and assisting local Polish residents. 

It also ran campaigns to highlighting the plight of Poland and kept the traditions and language alive amongst the ex pats and their families through Polish Saturday schools. 

Although the SPK is running out of ex servicemen it's legacy continues and many Polish children still attend schools ( well, they did pre covid) all over the country

 

Late night drinking is a necessity at any social function. 

Getting drunk is not the primary aim. Being hospitable, having fun, enjoying life and convivial company, while getting slowly pickled, is. 

 

Vodka makes the world go round and improves my Polish. 

 

Andy

Edited December 24, 2021 by SM42

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

When I was stationed at the vehicle depot at Ashchurch, there was a prefabricated building and allotment around the back of the married quarters that was occupied by an old Polish gentleman.

 

Looking back I now wonder if the powers that be knew he lived there, or whether he was a long term squatter?  He'd been there for so long, that everybody who got posted in over they years assumed he was there legally.

 

Come to think of it he may have been Russian:  Talk about hiding in plain sight by living in the middle of a military base.

I was told that in the chaos of 1945 quite a lot of Ukranians claimed they were Polish to avoid having their wartime qctivities looked at too closely. I dealt with the suicide of a 'Pole'.  We could never prove it but there was a strong possibility  that he had been involved qs a gaurd of some type at a concentration  camp and was worried that war crimes investigators were catching up with him.

[Doncaster Green]

46 minutes ago, SM42 said:

 

 

 

Late night drinking is a necessity at any social function. 

Getting drunk is not the primary aim. Being hospitable, having fun, enjoying life and convivial company, while getting slowly pickled, is. 

 

 

Definitely my kind of social function.  Also, from my experience of talking with club members, I agree with your comments about the support they gave the Polish community.

As a slight aside, their wartime leader, General Sikorsky, was buried in the Polish War Cemetery in the town I grew up in after his controversial death in a plane crash, although I understand his body was repatriated to Poland in the 90's.  I believe a memorial to him is still there though.

 

John

 

[Happy Hippo]

It is now a case of scurryfunging (tidying up by hiding things in cupboards). However any firkytootle under the mistletoe is unlikely at the moment.

 

Missing in action this year is a Christmas cake and a Christmas pudding.  Some may feel that is a step to far, but with only two of us who are supposed to be looking after our respective weights and each other, it seems a reasonable idea.

 

To show the restrain I have been displaying, the Stollen, which was bought three days ago, remains intact.

 

The Chablis and Champagne are chilling:  The Chablis since September and the Champagne for about three years, but I'll get to it eventually.

 

We are now considering whether the Brussel Sprouts ought to go on the stove now.  I know my mothers went on last April, so ours will be almost raw by comparison.

 

Have I left anything out?

 

 

[PhilJ W]

I was told by UPS that they would deliver a parcel on Monday so I stayed in. But it never arrived and only by going on the UPS website did I discover that the delivery had been put back to a later (unspecified) date. Much to my surprise said parcel arrived this morning, followed by an e-mail half an hour later telling me it was going to be delivered today.

[SM42]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

I was told that in the chaos of 1945 quite a lot of Ukranians claimed they were Polish to avoid having their wartime qctivities looked at too closely. I dealt with the suicide of a 'Pole'.  We could never prove it but there was a strong possibility  that he had been involved qs a gaurd of some type at a concentration  camp and was worried that war crimes investigators were catching up with him.

 

There were an awful lot of people being moved around in 1945 and the years that followed, as borders were redrawn and ethnic populations found themselves suddenly in the "wrong" country and millions of people were repatriated from their homes in the borderlands (Kresy)  to their new homes somewhere, anywhere,  else. 

 

A large number ended up in Former German territory near modern day Wroclaw

 

That's where MrsSM42's  grandparents eventually settled near the town of Kluczbork

 

The trip was not easy and many died en route.

Those that survived had to endure sleeping rough, food shortages, being robbed by Russian troops and the potential for being attacked or murdered because of their ethnicity.

 

It's a history that many do not know in the West and it was largely swept under the rug by the ruling authorities.

 

Andy

Edited December 24, 2021 by SM42

[petethemole]

There is a large Italian community in Bedford, largely due to the POWs, many of whom had worked in the Marston Vale brickworks, as well as on farms.  Some stayed on, but it was common for those repatriated, especially to the impoverished South, to return as soon as they could afford to.  In the '50s and '60s the brickworks employed many Italians and some Poles.  There were London Brick Company works buses from Bedford, which were older types*.

 

There was a large Polish community in Southamton post-war; they had a social club close to my previous house.  They certainly knew how to have a good time. The hall could be hired, and I went to some events there.  The bar had a range of Polish beers and some interesting vodkas.  Fortunately home was two minutes walk away.

 

Years ago, probably late '70s, I read a newspaper article about a group of Ukrainians who had surrendered in France while serving in the Wehrmacht.  They wouldn't go home as they knew it meant certain death.  For some obsure reason that I don't recall, they ended up being employed by the MOD clearing WW2 minefield in UK, which they were still doing at the time of the article.

 

For bus fans, an ex-LT bus, RT32 of the prewar order, built 1940-42, at Stewartby in 1964.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by petethemole
added photo