Greenwood Model Products 65ft GWR Turntable

[Neal Ball]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Leave it as it is for now please. I have made a call to Mike Green and left a message and I hope I get a reply. I would hope he can offer some kind of solution and, on that basis, can we avoid anything too inflammatory at this point?

 

Thanks very much Andy, appreciate it.

 

You wont be surprised to hear my email to him last night was (yesterday I used the word robust), it was very strong and to the point.

 

Clearly I hope it can get resolved. Thanks for your input.

[Neal Ball]

This is the current status on the UPS tracking page. I have emailed them today asking for them to expedite the parcel.

 

They have previously advised that they don't need any more information from me.

 

[AY Mod]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

Leave it as it is for now please. I have made a call to Mike Green and left a message and I hope I get a reply. I would hope he can offer some kind of solution and, on that basis, can we avoid anything too inflammatory at this point?

 

Ok; I have now spoken to Mike at length on this and he accepts where there may have been issues but also feels he has tried hard to resolve any of the issues. The current position, as can be seen from your latest screenshot, is that the keypad parcel is with UPS in Madrid. Mike advises me he has requested that you provide them with the information too that he has provided to you and them with the details from the invoice regarding the contents of the parcel, what it actually is, the tariff code and that it is a replacement part.

 

Mike has also advised me that the Paypal refund request has been rejected by Paypal as it's outside their protection period.

 

So, the practical choices to you are:

 

1. If you have any outstanding correspondence from UPS please respond so that the delivery can be completed.

2. If you wish to have a refund the goods should be returned (inc. the keypad). I have explained that although that you already have the turntable and motor that the three elements constitute the product and that your consumer protection would give you the right to return the item within 14 days of receipt of the complete order. That would have to be at your cost under current legislation - https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl - under your return rights (unless the goods were faulty - which they won't be if the errant keypad is united with the rest of it). The refund would then be issued when the goods are received back, this is standard practice with any retailer.

 

I'm still unsure why I've been leant upon to get involved with this; it's not my doing and I don't have any magical spell to cast upon customer disputes (I have no rights in this technically, only you and the seller do) but that's all I can realistically do - and that is to clarify what your options are after discussion with the seller.

[Stephen Freeman]

I do doubt whether using plywood/mdf is a good way to go for the turntable bridge, I think it is potentially dimensionally unstable compared to Copperclad and etched metal.

The last turntable I did was in 7mm scale and pretty much scratchbuilt

 

The bridge is based on the version of the 65ft extension to a 55ft one. I have sourced some double sided copperclad in a size suitable up 65ft in 7mm scale, though for 70ft turntables I am still looking. The Main parts of the Bridge are Copperclad sheet. Wheels and centre bearings are Ball Bearing races for ease of rotation.

Track electrical pickup is from the circle rail and centre axle. This requires polarity reversal but does mean that any sound equipped loco will continue uninterrupted.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Stephen Freeman

[Stephen Freeman]

4 hours ago, Stanley Melrose said:

I've read this thread from time to time with mounting dismay.  A good while ago I enquired about buying a 4mm = 1ft kit for a 70ft Cowans Sheldon turntable.  This was due to the complete failure of the Metalsmith/Midland Railway Centre to release their kit.  In my email interchange with Mr Greenwood he revealed that was planning to re-do that particular kit.  As I had purchased all the relevant drawings from Carlisle where the Cowans Sheldon drawings are archived, I offered him copies to assist him.  These were duly dispatched to him and after a while I asked if I could see a photo of the revised product so I could finalise my purchase.

 

Nobody reading this thread will be surprised to learn that I didn't receive a photo of the updated kit.

 

Stan

 

 

Hi,

I do have a drawing of the 70ft version. Had it for quite some time (about 10 years I think), so not sure where from but think it was pretty much in the public domain, can send you a copy if you like.

[Stanley Melrose]

For clarity - the drawings I purchased were digitised scans and the copies provided to Mr Green were digital copies of those I received so I still have those that were provided by Carlisle.  If anyone else wishes to have copies (strictly for personal use), please PM me.

[polybear]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

I'm still unsure why I've been leant upon to get involved with this; it's not my doing and I don't have any magical spell to cast upon customer disputes (I have no rights in this technically, only you and the seller do) but that's all I can realistically do - and that is to clarify what your options are after discussion with the seller.

 

Hi Andy,

Whilst your magic may not extend to miracles, your intervention has generated a response from the seller (a miracle in itself if my own experience is anything to go by) and also (if he wasn't already  aware) let the seller know that the spotlight is firmly pointed in his direction - with an audience all waiting to see how the play ends....

I call that a result 

[Neal Ball]

23 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Ok; I have now spoken to Mike....

 

I'm still unsure why I've been leant upon to get involved with this; it's not my doing and I don't have any magical spell to cast upon customer disputes (I have no rights in this technically, only you and the seller do) but that's all I can realistically do - and that is to clarify what your options are after discussion with the seller.

 

Afternoon Andy, thank you for speaking to him yesterday. The reason I reached out to you is twofold;

firstly, a couple of weeks ago, I emailed you as I thought it wrong that he was still (at that time) advertising on World of Railways website and I felt this could lead unsuspecting customers to purchasing goods from him and suffering delays / faulty goods etc. as I have suffered since June this year.

 

I note there is currently no Greenwood advert on WOR or in the latest issue of BRM.

 

Secondly, I was asking for the heading of this thread to be changed.

 

It was great you spoke to him, thats way more than I could have hoped for. For which thank you.

 

Due to the various issues I have had with Mike Green / Greenwood model railway, I would not recommend him to anyone. I fear he is the next CooperCraft. That might not be the case, but it's how it seems at the moment.

 

Obviously I have complied with all the requests from UPS and provided them with information straight away. Their system is confusing and with multiple messages stating:

 

09/12/2021
15:07 UPS initiated contact with receiver or importer for clearance information. Once received, UPS will submit for clearance. 
Madrid, Spain

09/12/2021
11:17 We'll contact the sender or receiver about this delivery. 
Madrid, Spain

 

The following day on 10th Dec, I received an email from UPS to advise that everything I have supplied was in order and they are just waiting for customs to clear the goods.

 

 

On the 14th Dec, I received two emails from Mike Green

 

The first at 15:26, simply says: So you not done anything about shipping. Mike

The second was at 18:28 is the one I have previously posted and simply says:  I have tried to contact you on several accessions and have had no reply so if no more communication by end of day contract terminated. Mike

 

____________________

 

It's been a disaster dealing with Mike and Greenwood from the start, hence why I would urge no-one to part with their money. It might be a nice looking product, but today it's still a very expensive paperweight.

 

The timeline is:

• March 2021 deposit of £50 paid.
• Balance of £550 paid on 7th June 2021
• Goods received on 20th July after paying duty of €160 (Todays rate shows this is @£135.) The address was wrong, he claims Villamartin was not on the ParcelForce website. 
• The first issues were the cable from the panel to the control gear was faulty and the transformer was broken.
• The cable was replaced @September 2021.
• Next issue, in trying to program the table, it was apparent that numbers 2;5;8;0 didn't work. It was sent back by UPS and received at Swanage on 20th October. Returned back to me by DHL on 2nd December - I had to resort to threatening legal action....
• 3rd December I tried to program again and found this panel also had the same fault.

I bought in good faith an expensive product that I thought was going to be the dogs b****s and going to be the best turntable that money could buy. Instead it's turned into a complete nightmare.

 

In paying £600 I expected it to be fully tested before being sent in June 2021 - it wasn't.

In sending back the control panel and control gear on 20/10/21 and having waited 6 weeks for it to be sent back on 3rd Dec. It surely was not unreasonable to expect that it would be tested before it was sent back - again it wasn't.

 

The saga above I have repeated a few times on here and from it, I can only draw one conclusion: DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY.

 

Hopefully, I can get the control panel here shortly and it will finally work. I'm not holding my breath.

 

In closing, Thank you again Andy. 

 

This sums up how Mike views his customers, this is the 2nd time he has said this to me during our exchanges.

 

 

In compiling this thread update, I have re-read the details, tried to keep my frustrations out of it, so it's taken  a while to compose... whereupon I have literally just received this email from UPS: 

 

 

I will reply direct to UPS now and provide my information that they require, but what on earth the issue with the invoice is I don't know....

[Neal Ball]

Both Mike and I have spoken to UPS after the last email... in his case twice and apparently the parcel is now going to be released....

 

It should be here early next week....

[Bucoops]

Literally everything crossed for you. What a saga

[Neal Ball]

I have just spoken to UPS in the UK although it sounded as if it went through to the US.

 

It seems that the parcel has still not been authorised to be released from customs. :-(

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

I can see Warner Brothers/Sony Pictures latching on to this saga!

 

Mike.

[Neal Ball]

27 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

I can see Warner Brothers/Sony Pictures latching on to this saga!

 

Mike.

 

I might make some money on that then!

 

Needless to say after I spoke to UPS, I sent a polite two line email to Mike Green at 11:15am this morning. It really didn't warrant a reply, I just advised what the latest situation was. 

 

Of course given everything thats happened, it would have been nice... even if it was "Thanks for letting me know" ....

 

Instead I've had nothing. 

 

Mike @Enterprisingwestern can you recommend an agent? Lol

[two tone green]

Xmas 2022 present then 

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, two tone green said:

Xmas 2022 present then 

There was a comment ages ago about this!

 

When I first enquired about the turntable back in Nov 2020, Mike Green said he would have stock “by Christmas “.

 

Some wag, later suggested that Mike didn’t advise which Christmas!

 

Needless to say, the parcel is still in customs and I’ve still not had a reply from him. 

[two tone green]

Never a truer word said in jest. Seems applicable. 

[Neal Ball]

6 minutes ago, two tone green said:

Never a truer word said in jest. Seems applicable. 

Sadly

[Neal Ball]

Sadly I’m still no further forward getting the parcel imported.

 

Last Monday I was told UPS had all the documentation they needed.

 

Yesterday they asked again for the documents I had already provided. Clearly somethings not right, but I don’t know what. Just in case, I sent over screen shots of the documents, just in case my version of word didn’t like something on the UPS system.

 

I then had an email 2 hours later, almost asking for the same again.

 

Across the morning, I telephoned them three times, including one call to the uk in the hope that the language barrier wasn’t going to be an issue.

 

The first call in Spain was with a fella who understood what I was saying and advised customs would be in touch. The UK call was a waste of time, the lady couldn’t look at the Spanish documents so couldn’t advise further.

 

The third call was very frustrating, the fella said I simply had to wait. 
 

I did though email Mike Green, who replied saying that ups are struggling to get hold of me! He was going to pass my details on….

 

It’s very frustrating.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I feel your pain Neal, my Rails Gas Turbine has disappeared into a ADS Postales/Customs wormhole, although I'm not being asked any questions, no one knows exactly where it is. When this happened before I just sat tight and rode it out, it's not worth losing sleep over I find!

The joys of living in a third world country.

 

Mike.

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I feel your pain Neal, my Rails Gas Turbine has disappeared into a ADS Postales/Customs wormhole, although I'm not being asked any questions, no one knows exactly where it is. When this happened before I just sat tight and rode it out, it's not worth losing sleep over I find!

The joys of living in a third world country.

 

Mike.

I would say it’s the on-going gift, that keeps giving….. Brexit!

 

Good luck with the turbine…. Hopefully Rails have got tracking in place?

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Hopefully Rails have got tracking in place?

 

Rails have, Spain hasn't, hence the "loss"!

 

Mike.

[Neal Ball]

4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Rails have, Spain hasn't, hence the "loss"!

 

Mike.

Oh! 
that’s crap 

[two tone green]

Just incase you have forgotten what they look like. 

The one on the right is a spare as well as the indexing motor to go with it. 
 

Happy Xmas

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Rails have, Spain hasn't, hence the "loss"!

 

Mike.

 

13 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Oh! 
that’s crap 

 

Depending on when I put the tracking number in the ADS Postales website, it either says there is no record of that number, or alternatively goes onto a screen with different and contradictory explanations about the stage of it's journey, so I learnt from the last time that asking questions/sending emails/trying to work out what's going on is a time and sanity wasting exercise, so I just wait until it finally gets shat out of the sausage machine.

For some reason, this has only happened to 2 large value shipments from Rails, their lower cost packages get through OK, as do all the other shipments from other UK suppliers.

If only everyone in the UK was like Hattons!

 

Mike.

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

Depending on when I put the tracking number in the ADS Postales website, it either says there is no record of that number, or alternatively goes onto a screen with different and contradictory explanations about the stage of it's journey, so I learnt from the last time that asking questions/sending emails/trying to work out what's going on is a time and sanity wasting exercise, so I just wait until it finally gets shat out of the sausage machine.

For some reason, this has only happened to 2 large value shipments from Rails, their lower cost packages get through OK, as do all the other shipments from other UK suppliers.

If only everyone in the UK was like Hattons!

 

Mike.

 

I have found that entering tracking numbers into the relevant pages sometimes gets the same response and it turns out that in copying the data, I had included a space after the last digit.

 

Now that I have used the ADT Postales website a couple of times, I'm a bit blasé about it. At least they insist you upload everything on-line and then once you know how the system works you get a green tick - or nothing, in which case it's wrong! Whereas UPS rely on responding to emails and sometimes their requests are confusing and/or contradictory.

 

Sadly yes, ending emails and getting hot under the collar with ADT Postales is a wast of time, they just don't respond.

 

At one point I thought it was going to be a case of parcels with a value greater than €x were going to get stopped, but apparently thats not the case.

 

Have you created your account on the ADT Postales website? By doing so, that should make it easier to track etc. message me if you want to talk through the specifics and I will see if together we can get it resolved.