Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[monkeysarefun]

40 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

By God! You lucky, lucky people!

 

 

Lost at sea while going for a bit of a swim, presumed drowned.

 

 

To commemorate that  we named a swimming centre after him.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Holt_Memorial_Swimming_Centre

Edited June 7, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[Edwardian]

49 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

Lost at sea while going for a bit of a swim, presumed drowned.

 

 

 

 

Accidentally or .....

 

 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

Lost at sea while going for a bit of a swim, presumed drowned.

 

 

To commemorate that  we named a swimming centre after him.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Holt_Memorial_Swimming_Centre

 

Remember folks!  Learn to swim!!!

[Regularity]

23 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Remember folks!  Learn to swim!!!

Else you will keep losing yer bird…

[Edwardian]

Hands up to not knowing that much about Ukraine until the recent re-invasion by Russia. I knew the capital was Kyiv, which I thought was latinised as Kiev, and, of course, Odessa and one or two other places, such as Lviv which I was more familiar with by the historic name of Lemberg, and, of course, I was familair with various Crimean place names that cropped up on a previous occasion when the Russians found their military unexpectedly wanting. 

 

Now, in the most harrowing circumstances, many more place names in Ukraine are familiar to us, some are new grim household names.

 

One hitherto unfamiliar place was Donetsk, the city that is the administrative capital of the Donetsk oblast in the industrialised Donbas. The city is currently under Russian occupation. 

 

If historical trivia can be permitted in such dark and terrible times, I relay my astonishment at reading yesterday that Donetsk city, the original name of which was Yuzivka, was founded by a Welshman in the 1870s.

 

In 1870, John James Hughes took a fleet of 8 ships loaded with metallurgical equipment, miners and metal workers to the region. There Hughes established an iron-smelting works, rail works and a town for the workers on the banks of the Donets river. That town grew into the present Donetsk.

 

We are all connected, more than we know.

 

Wiki Entry

 

 

[Nearholmer]

My knowledge of geography everywhere, not just in Ukraine, is pretty woeful, but oddly I did know about the history of Donetsk, because there have been a couple of long articles about it in the journal of The Newcomen Society, of which I am a member.

It falls into the bracket of random factoids, and I recall my father being randomly knowledgable about The Falkland Islands when a previous war made everyone ask “Where?”, because he’d bought a seriously detailed book (topography, political history, economics, flora and fauna, all that stuff) about them at a jumble sale years before, simply because it looked a bit interesting.

[drmditch]

12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Every government minister seems to repeat like a Dalek at every opportunity “Time to move on! Time to draw a line under it!”.

 

Are they talking about BJ’s tenure as PM?

 

What is the line these people wish to drawn?

 

Indicating a subtotal or (preferably) a total?

 

Should not the latter require a General Election?

[Edwardian]

The Ukrainian National Anthem dates, I believe, from 1863, or thereabouts, when Ukraine was partly in the Austrian Empire and partly in the Russian. It can be seen as part of that invention of nationhood that got into full-swing in the Nineteenth Century all over the place, not least in the British Isles.

 

Thus, though the roots of independence go far deeper, it is really from the mid-Nineteenth Century, when the idea of a Ukrainian Ukraine begins to win out over the competing dreams of a Right Bank Polonised Ukraine and a Left Bank Little Russian Ukraine, that Ukraine starts to become a nation in waiting, a nation waiting for the chance of a national polity. It was a long wait.

 

My favourite phase of this Nineteenth Century national reawakening, if only because of its name, has to the the Alphabet War of 1859. 

 

In terms of modernisation, Gallicia, the Austrian part, was ahead with the introduction of a railway link to Lemberg (Lviv).  The Russians were held-back, post Crimean War, because Russia's depleted treasury could not fund a railway (it mainly wanted one from Moscow to the naval base at Sevastopol) while Russia's crack-down on Polish rebels in 1863 led to western sanctions that blocked the necessary foreign investment. See, Russia, brutally suppress neighbouring populations and people don't like you. Stop doing it and they give you their money. Simples.   

 

In the end, in 1865, four years after the Austrians had linked Lemberg (Lviv) to Cracow and the imperial capital Vienna, a more modest line was built in Russian Ukraine to take Ukrainian grain from Balta, in the grain producing region, to the port of Odessa for export, the very trade that Putin's regime has choked off to the great cost and misery of very many throughout the world.  

 

Odessa in 1870

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

It falls into the bracket of random factoids

US or UK definition of “factoids”?

Former, a small item of information. Latter, a small item of information that turns out not to be true.

 

Steve Wright on Radio 2 uses the former definition, but frequently the British one applies…

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Russia's crack-down on Polish rebels in 1863 led to western sanctions that blocked the necessary foreign investment. See, Russia, brutally suppress neighbouring populations and people don't like you. Stop doing it and they give you their money. Simples. 

Obviously.

 

But Putin is a firm adherent of the bonkers philosopher Ivan Ilyin - to the extent of calling him the “Court Philosopher” (“court”? Putin really does think of himself as Tsar!) - who claimed that Muscovy had only ever expanded  to become Russia and welcomed grateful friends who were in need of “Russian protection” from foreign powers into its folds, and that (amongst other things) anyone who doesn’t see Ukraine as part of Russia is an enemy of Russia. He was an advocate of fascism, but with a pseudo-Christian slant which encourages the involvement of the Russian Orthodox Church. His key concept was the “consciousness of law”, which means that being “right” is more important that strict obeyance of the law, especially when it is an external construct, i.e. “international law”. This puts him and his adherents at odds with the two basic principles of Western Civilisation: the rule of law and payment of debts.

 

Until we (collectively, internationally) wake up to this, we are doomed in any attempts to “negotiate” with Putin, as if he doesn’t think the agreement is “right” in his eyes he will simply bide his time and then ignore it. M. Macron is therefore doomed in his attempts to be seen as the intermediary for peace, as Putin simply uses any such moves as a useful wedge to drive into the coalition against him. 
 

What we need, of course, is to have a Cabinet with some people who went to the best schools and the best university  in the land, who followed a course of study which trained them to be able to see this sort of thing. You know, Eton, followed by Politics, Philosophy and Economics… …if only we had a Cabinet of such calibre!

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Regularity
Edit: was tempted to leave the autocorrect of Elton in place…

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Obviously.

 

But Putin is a firm adherent of the bonkers philosopher Ivan Ilyin - to the extent of calling him the “Court Philosopher” (“court”? Putin really does think of himself as Tsar!) - who claimed that Muscovy had only ever expanded  to become Russia and welcomed grateful friends who were in need of “Russian protection” from foreign powers into its folds, and that (amongst other things) anyone who doesn’t see Ukraine as part of Russia is an enemy of Russia. He was an advocate of fascism, but with a pseudo-Christian slant which encourages the involvement of the Russian Orthodox Church. His key concept was the “consciousness of law”, which means that being “right” is more important that strict obeyance of the law, especially when it is an external construct, i.e. “international law”. This puts him and his adherents at odds with the two basic principles of Western Civilisation: the rule of law and payment of debts.

 

Until we (collectively, internationally) wake up to this, we are doomed in any attempts to “negotiate” with Putin, as if he doesn’t think the agreement is “right” in his eyes he will simply bide his time and then ignore it. M. Macron is therefore doomed in his attempts to be seen as the intermediary for peace, as Putin simply uses any such moves as a useful wedge to drive into the coalition against him. 
 

What we need, of course, is to have a Cabinet with some people who went to the best schools and the best university  in the land, who followed a course of study which trained them to be able to see this sort of thing. You know, Elton, followed by Politics, Philosophy and Economics… …if only we had a Cabinet of such calibre!

 

 

The Soviets had, I believe, a name for people like Macron, Scholz and whoever is nominally in charge of Italy this week, who unwittingly advanced Russia's agenda: "Useful Idiots"

[Nearholmer]

TBH, I didnt know there was a difference, I thought it meant "small fact", sometimes, but not always, an irrelevant one thrown into a conversation, sometimes, but not always, to deliberately confuse or divert that conversation.

 

In this case, I mean it to mean wot I just said.

 

Does that mean I'm using an Americanism?

 

Radio 2 is something I avoid, almost at all cost, because there is something about its tone, the quality of the sound as much as the content, that makes me feel as if I've been injected with a very strong sedative, maybe even an anaesthetic.

 

Hope you are feeling OK.

[Nearholmer]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

"Useful Idiots"

 

Often attributed to Lenin, but apparently he didn't use it, at least in writing, although IIRC he used phrases that could be summed-up as meaning that when writing about what we would now call the liberal left, and how they were in his eyes effectively essential to "rolling the wicket" in preparation for a complete revolution.

 

Anyway, as a phrase, it always makes me think of how Moscow must have seen Nigel Farage, whereas the rest of us thought that he only merited half of that description. 

[Phil Parker]

23 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Until we (collectively, internationally) wake up to this, we are doomed in any attempts to “negotiate” with Putin, as if he doesn’t think the agreement is “right” in his eyes he will simply bide his time and then ignore it. M. Macron is therefore doomed in his attempts to be seen as the intermediary for peace, as Putin simply uses any such moves as a useful wedge to drive into the coalition against him. 

 

Then the only other solution is that advocated by our foreign secretary, he has to be completely defeated. Of course, Putin will not accept defeat and if that looks like the case, will retreat to his deapest bunker and start chucking nuclear weapons around. He doesn't care how many people die, including his own population. It can be argued that rather than being "useful idiots", the French as engaged in realpolitik - looking for a solution based on the current situation.

[Regularity]

15 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Then the only other solution is that advocated by our foreign secretary, he has to be completely defeated. Of course, Putin will not accept defeat and if that looks like the case, will retreat to his deapest bunker and start chucking nuclear weapons around. He doesn't care how many people die, including his own population. It can be argued that rather than being "useful idiots", the French as engaged in realpolitik - looking for a solution based on the current situation.

There is ultimately no solution to this short of either caving in or of Putin and his inner regime going, as Putin will never accept that Ukraine has any existence except as part of Russia. He doesn’t operate any other way.

I know what you are saying, Phil, and I really don’t want war, nuclear or otherwise, but the “realpolitik” you talk about will do nothing more at the moment than encourage Putin to carry on with his mission until he dies.

To him, western principles don’t apply (fair point, as he hasn’t signed up to anything) so the only thing to do is to say to him, “If you want to trade with us, if you want to be part of the UN, if you want your nation to be part of the planet, get back behind your borders.” Complete trade sanctions - even if they hurt us - are the only way, and President Macron is a sophomore: his actions appear to be wise, but by failing to understand Putin’s mindset, he is acting the fool.

[32475]

1 hour ago, drmditch said:

 

What is the line these people wish to drawn?

 

Indicating a subtotal or (preferably) a total?

 

Should not the latter require a General Election?

Since the line in question has not been reported as having been drawn as yet, no doubt there is a Drawing the Line Committee.

On the agenda will be such questions as:

Should we use a pencil, quill pen, biro, felt pen, permanent marker?

What should the line be drawn on such as a sheet of paper, exercise book, wall or something else?

Will it be a straight line, curved or wobbly?

Who will get to draw it?

How long will the line be?

Will it join up with any other lines?

Will the line be thick or thin?

Will it have an London Underground route named after it?

There is just so much decision making to be done which cannot be underestimated.

 

[Edwardian]

10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

.... the French as engaged in realpolitik - looking for a solution based on the current situation.

 

I'm sure that's what they think they're doing. That's sort of the definition of a Useful Idiot.

 

I suspect that Putin merely sees negotiation as a sign of weakness and will use the chimera of a negotiated settlement as a means to break Western unity.  That is the practical hazard of negotiating with someone with whom one can't negotiate.

 

The ethical dimension is that we should not seek to be Chamberlain and Daladier, forcing a peace on an unwilling Ukraine whose right it is to insist upon the restoration of its territory.  We cannot betray Ukraine or our own very public commitment to the international rules-based system a, rule of law, democracy etc by pressuring Ukraine into surrendering its rights. Further, the West's influence would not survive the craven abandonment of Ukraine, especially after Biden abandoned Afghanistan, so we have to keep the support going.  What frankly worries me more than the flakiness of the French and German administrations is the limiting of much-needed game-changing missile systems to insignificant numbers. One military analyst in the West reckoned 110+ such systems would allow Putin to be defeated. The US and UK between them are sending just 7.That causes me to fear that we, or at least the US, have allowed ourselves to be spooked by Russian threats of retaliation and are more prepared to let events take their course. Is this the beginning of our slow betrayal? 

 

Ultimately we have to accept risk, we have to call bluff. The only way to deal with any bully like Putin is to stand up to their threats, nuclear and all, or they just keep coming.

 

My typing crosses with Simon's post, which I second.

[Regularity]

43 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

In this case, I mean it to mean wot I just said.

 

Does that mean I'm using an Americanism?

I knew what you meant, just thought it would be fun to add a like erudition.

And yes, you were (inadvertently) using an Americanism. (Sorry.)

 

As for R2, the presenters drive me up the wall, saving Ken Bruce, but the music is usually ok to have on in the background when driving with kids who don’t like R3 and R4.

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The difference lies in Simon's cynicism.

That’s unnecessarily harsh, Stephen.

[Regularity]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

My typing crosses with Simon's post, which I second.

Likewise in reverse.

[Phil Parker]

6 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Ultimately we have to accept risk, we have to call bluff. The only way to deal with any bully like Putin is to stand up to their threats, nuclear and all, or they just keep coming.

 

My typing crosses with Simon's post, which I second.

 

Then we are all going to die, and very horribly. That's a nice thought for lunch. Still, it give us all the chance to plan for a slightly less painful exit before the sirens start.

[Edwardian]

28 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Then we are all going to die, and very horribly. That's a nice thought for lunch. Still, it give us all the chance to plan for a slightly less painful exit before the sirens start.

 

That may be the alternative to living in a world in which the likes of Putin are able to go on the rampage whenever they feel like it, yes. However, I do not think it will come to that. 

 

For my part, I know I'm stuffed if it does.  Although I live far from the madding crowds, Catterick Garrison was certainly on the Soviet-era list of UK nuclear missile targets, so that's me and mine gone (assuming an 800kt airburst strike, the house might survive the blast at this distance from the epicentre, but there is 100% probability of third degree burns from thermal radiation, so, pretty horrible, as you say.  Fingers crossed then!)

 

Still, I'll save a small fortune on all those pre-orders. 

 

EDIT: To pass the time while waiting for Armageddon, try This Website.  Simply choose your target (a city centre near where you live is always fun), choose your kiloton yield and detonate to see if you will survive a nuclear strike!  Those long summer evenings will just fly by!

 

Still, "I always like to end on a positive note ...."

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Edwardian

[rocor]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

 

What we need, of course, is to have a Cabinet with some people who went to the best schools and the best university  in the land, who followed a course of study which trained them to be able to see this sort of thing. You know, Elton, followed by Politics, Philosophy and Economics… …if only we had a Cabinet of such calibre!

 

 

What they could have got from Elton:-

Cold heart.

I'm still standing.

Don't let the Sun go down on me.

Sorry seems to be the hardest word.

 

Sacrifice would have been given a miss, though.

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

That’s unnecessarily harsh, Stephen.

 

I apologise and have amended deleted my post.

 

EDIT: in response to Simon's comment below, on better reflection.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Compound2632

[Regularity]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I apologise and have amended my post.

Thank you.

 I think that’s an extremely good example of how to redact something whilst still making the point - and I am highly delighted by it!

[Regularity]

27 minutes ago, rocor said:

What they could have got from Elton:-

Cold heart.

I'm still standing.

Don't let the Sun go down on me.

Sorry seems to be the hardest word.

Phew. 
Just as well they to Eton, then!