Rails of Sheffield Improved Precedent Class

[Butler Henderson]

Golden rule ought to be to test run any new loco on dc before decoder fitting. The "I have only a DCC layout" is not really an excuse IMO as its easy enough to quickly lay an oval of Kato Unitrack on the floor (as it designed for before any one gets any "Sam" visions) connected to whatever suitable supply is to hand; any 9-12v dc power plug will do subject to it current rating.

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

It is a not uncommon business practise for a new entrant to the market to sell their products at a low price to establish themselves. Having done that and established a reputation - hopefully a good one - they are then in a position to match the other producers pricing. Of course, undercutting your competitors is always the first sales tactic that some retailers adopt.

 

How does Dapol fit this hypothesis ?

Been around forever, and bucking the recent pricing trend of the big 3.

 

[brighamloft]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Golden rule ought to be to test run any new loco on dc before decoder fitting. The "I have only a DCC layout" is not really an excuse IMO as its easy enough to quickly lay an oval of Kato Unitrack on the floor (as it designed for before any one gets any "Sam" visions) connected to whatever suitable supply is to hand; any 9-12v dc power plug will do subject to it current rating.

I agree with you, the loco was fully tested on DC before the original decoder was fitted.  

[brighamloft]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Golden rule ought to be to test run any new loco on dc before decoder fitting. The "I have only a DCC layout" is not really an excuse IMO as its easy enough to quickly lay an oval of Kato Unitrack on the floor (as it designed for before any one gets any "Sam" visions) connected to whatever suitable supply is to hand; any 9-12v dc power plug will do subject to it current rating.

I agree with you, the loco was fully tested on DC before the original decoder was fitted.  

[Jol Wilkinson]

35 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

How does Dapol fit this hypothesis ?

Been around forever, and bucking the recent pricing trend of the big 3.

 

I  did say  "Of course, undercutting your competitors is always the first sales tactic that some retailers adopt."

 

That may be Dapol's approach, especially if they have lower overheads  than their competitors. Has it made them one of the major players and do they have the  approbation that some of their  recent competitors have achieved?

[adb968008]

50 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I  did say  "Of course, undercutting your competitors is always the first sales tactic that some retailers adopt."

 

That may be Dapol's approach, especially if they have lower overheads  than their competitors. Has it made them one of the major players and do they have the  approbation that some of their  recent competitors have achieved?

£159 rrp for their DCC ready model in 2017 today £141.
 

2017

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/Proud-to-announce-the-launch-of-the-all-new-OO-Gauge-GWR-Large-Prairie-2-6-2-Locomotive

 

2022

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/oo-gauge/Steam-Locomotives-OOGauge/OO-Gauge-2-6-2-Large-Prairie/4S-041-001-OO-Gauge-Large-Prairie-5109-Green-Great-Western-ERA-3
 

Hornby brought theres to market at £139…. In 2019 and 2022 its £169.

That doesnt align to the former or the latter statement.

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by adb968008

[drt7uk]

I do apologize if this has already been covered but mine seems to have a clicking sound from the wheels when it reverses. Perhaps the contacts catching something? Has anyone else had this issue?

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, drt7uk said:

I do apologize if this has already been covered but mine seems to have a clicking sound from the wheels when it reverses. Perhaps the contacts catching something? Has anyone else had this issue?

Not on this loco but yes usually a bent wiper, just had the same on a Roco loco and I’ve had it with Hornby too. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

£159 rrp for their DCC ready model in 2017 today £141.
 

2017

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/Proud-to-announce-the-launch-of-the-all-new-OO-Gauge-GWR-Large-Prairie-2-6-2-Locomotive

 

2022

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/oo-gauge/Steam-Locomotives-OOGauge/OO-Gauge-2-6-2-Large-Prairie/4S-041-001-OO-Gauge-Large-Prairie-5109-Green-Great-Western-ERA-3
 

Hornby brought theres to market at £139…. In 2019 and 2022 its £169.

That doesnt align to the former or the latter statement.

 

No, it doesn't but then I was talking in general terms as to what a retailer (in any market) may adopt as their sales policy. If Dapol take a different approach, then that is up to them. How they can reduce prices would, I am sure be of interest to other producers. What costs have they been able to reduce, have there been savings from economies of scale and increased sales volumes, do they just take a lower profit margin, etc.? None of our business of course and we can only guess as to what they may have done. If it results in lower  prices and more sales, good for them.

 

General inflation in the period in question has been just under 3%. One kit producer I know has found that inflation for bought in components (etches, brass castings, etc,) has exceeded that figure, particularly in the last two years as the cost of non ferrous metals soared worldwide. So despite Dapol bucking the trend, perhaps Hornby and others current pricing is reflecting both increases in manufacturing cost and overheads, as well as what seems to be a strong market at present. None of us know for sure. The pricing of the subject model in this topic doesn't appear to have deterred enough people to make it unpopular.

 

[adb968008]

Personally I think its down to strategy, its either hunting or farming. 
 

[Butler Henderson]

15 hours ago, brighamloft said:

I agree with you, the loco was fully tested on DC before the original decoder was fitted.  

I presume it ran okay then, Have you tried it again in DC?  What decoders have you tried and have you turned BEMP off ?

[Legend]

23 hours ago, brighamloft said:

I’ve had no end of issues with my Precedent. Disappointed doesn’t even come close - it’s been ran in for hours, it’s had 3 different new DCC chips trialled including DCC concepts Zen with stay alive, it’s been on 3 different layouts with different controllers, it’s been ran in DC, I’ve tweaked CVs for days and yet it’s jerky at anything other than almost full power. Rails haven’t been helpful at all, just keep suggesting CV tweaks yet I have the same issue on DC. I’ve cleaned wheels and checked pick ups - I’m sure there’s some wiring loose or something but Rails won’t take it back. I’ll mention the cost in that I have a loco that’s really only fit for display so it’s not worth the price. I model LNWR on an exhibition layout so it would have been perfect. 
real shame and poor after sales too. 

I know it may be obvious , but have you lubricated it . Mine initially ran well ( I’m DC only)  then demonstrated Juddery and jerky running . Sometimes it stalled and seemed to have variable speeds. I tested the pick ups by lifting the loco then the tender off the rails to make sure it was picking up from both .  I did clean the wheels but they didn’t seem dirty . Then I lightly lubricated the loco per instructions and also the tender axles and this seems to have sorted the problem, she’s running smooth again .    I also had some squeaking problems on one of my Caley 812s . I have a feeling that these locos are only very lightly oiled at the factory . 

[Gordieb01]

I only got my LMS black version in the post last week as I live in NZ and international orders were sent after Christmas.    Ran it in on my layout tonight for 30 mins in the forward direction and ran beautifully.   Only issue was front of tender derailing on a dodgy track joint.  With a bit of packing that was cured and the loco ran fine.  Haven't done the reverse running in yet but ran it round my large oval twice tender first without any issues whatever.   Very pleased so far.

[Synch]

Received my Lucknow today in Canada, not run it around yet but am very happy with it.

This has to be the first RTR model made that was notable in the pre-grouping period and vanished from traffic prior to the mid 1930s, City of Truro can certainly count but I'd wager she is more recognized for her stint in preservation then in service, with the rest of the City's getting overlooked.

I can only hope this has put the proverbial foot in the door as regards to similar locomotives, if only to see a Stroudley Gladstone of Johnson Spinner in RTR form.

[PaulRhB]

No Precedents but a couple of typical trains on Britannia bridge and some period costume too. 
 

 

[Butler Henderson]

There's a letter in the latest Bachmann collectors club magazine re poor running on DCC. Bachmann suggest that with their (ESU Lok pilot) decoder setting CV54 to 5 and CV55 to 200 and then making incremental changes as may be necessary.

[Jol Wilkinson]

9 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

No Precedents but a couple of typical trains on Britannia bridge and some period costume too. 
 

 

 

The LNWR part of the film shows the  sort of collection of carriages which were typical of the mix in the Victorian era. Only when the bogie stock came into general use did a more consistent group of carriages run together. Even then, the most prestige trains could have a selection of different length and rood profile coaches. Running a set of the RTR "generic" four and six wheelers will sadly be far from what the prototype would have looked like.

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Running a set of the RTR "generic" four and six wheelers will sadly be far from what the prototype would have looked like.

It’s a start though and makes it easier to expand out and start adding more prototypical stock to the rake. Hopefully mixing Hattons and Hornby will add some differences too. One day a few might retire the generic stuff if they build enough from kits  

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

It’s a start though and makes it easier to expand out and start adding more prototypical stock to the rake. Hopefully mixing Hattons and Hornby will add some differences too. One day a few might retire the generic stuff if they build enough from kits  

And modifications could be made to the generic models to alter the appearance. Plus a few modified Ratio four wheelers could create a good mix. Also I noticed what looks like a horsebox in the middle of the rake of one of the trains.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

It’s a start though and makes it easier to expand out and start adding more prototypical stock to the rake. Hopefully mixing Hattons and Hornby will add some differences too. One day a few might retire the generic stuff if they build enough from kits  

I think it is very unlikely that people will build LNWR carriages from kits, it isn't what they are keen to do and the livery will be too off putting. There are some superb  examples of kit built LNWR models here on RMWeb, but from only a very few modellers.

 

The acid test will be whether suppliers such as Ratio, 51L/Wizard and London Road Models see an increase in sales of LNWR coach kits. LRM had a small and brief increase in sales of L&Y six wheel coach kits when the Bachmann L&Y Radial Tank was introduced, despite the L&Y coach livery being much simpler with virtually no lining.

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

The acid test will be whether suppliers such as Ratio, 51L/Wizard and London Road Models see an increase in sales of LNWR coach kits.

Agreed but it’s also an opportunity they could follow Slaters example and pre print the sides leaving the assembly to the customer. Ratio/Peco do their own printing on the 009 coaches and the market can’t be huge for some of the ones Slaters have done so there must be a cost balance there. With three rtr LNWR locos it might be getting towards viable. 

[john new]

I fit DCC to new purchases as it is the way the hobby is going, but am still a novice.
 

Given the various issues mentioned above for a non-sound version, using an NCE Powercab when on DCC what is the recommended chip? Hopefully, with not too much messing about with CV settings.

[Michael Hodgson]

28 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think it is very unlikely that people will build LNWR carriages from kits, it isn't what they are keen to do and the livery will be too off putting. There are some superb  examples of kit built LNWR models here on RMWeb, but from only a very few modellers.

 

People would build LNWR or WCJS coaches from kits if they came ready liveried, like the Dapol Stanier kits

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Agreed but it’s also an opportunity they could follow Slaters example and pre print the sides leaving the assembly to the customer. Ratio/Peco do their own printing on the 009 coaches and the market can’t be huge for some of the ones Slaters have done so there must be a cost balance there. With three rtr LNWR locos it might be getting towards viable. 

 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

People would build LNWR or WCJS coaches from kits if they came ready liveried, like the Dapol Stanier kits

 

While pre-printing sides might be possible with the Ratio moulded plastic kits I don't think it would work for etched kits and soldered construction. THe livery on a Stanier coach is rather more simplified compared to the more intricate of the pre-group liveries. The CKD nature of the Dapol kit is a great idea but oddly hasn't been adopted by the other manufacturers recently.

 

I wasn't aware that Slaters sold pre-printed coach kits, just 7mm PO wagon kits. There aren't any 4mm coach kits on their website at present.

 

PC Models used to produce kits with pre-printed acetate sides. These captured the livery beautifully but lacked "depth". Originally supplied with cast w/m ends and pressed tinplate parts to create the coach skeleton they were later upgraded with etched parts. However, while dealing with the painting and lining they still required a lot of work to assemble but provided a range of the larger LNWR "express" carriages. They also did MR, LMS, LSWR, LNER and GWR kits IIRC. Teese pop up on that well known online auction site from time to time.

 

As for there being three LNWR locos, there are actually only two available in LNWR period condition, the Coal Tank and the Precedent. The Super D, a good sloco is as modified in LMS period, albeit as the LNWR had planned. The Coal Tank is in unlined black livery and despite people wishing for  a lined version that hasn't happened.

 

Despite the sales success of this new loco

[PaulRhB]

31 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

wasn't aware that Slaters sold pre-printed coach kits, just 7mm PO wagon kits. There aren't any 4mm coach kits on their website at present.

They’ve offered the L&B coaches for O16.5 pre-printed although they aren’t currently on the website, I guess the Lionheart announcement has made them less viable. They also do a few in 7mm sg https://slatersplastikard.com/carriages/gOPaintedCarriages.php

I’ve got a couple of the Ratio kits but they are a way down the job pile at present. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by PaulRhB