Hunslet 16" 0-6-0 Saddle Tank - 00 Gauge

[atom3624]

On 03/02/2023 at 07:43, Jammy2305 said:

 

I've got some nameplates to fit on my 'Ring Haw' but I've noticed on the real thing the left side plate is fixed over the pipe that runs down the tank, rather than behind it as per the printed name. I'm thinking of mounting the plate on some plasticard to give it clearance but wondered if anyone else had a better idea to get around this?

 

Also, to echo all the other comments, what a fantastic model! Well done Rapido! 

 

- James

There's one thing.

Access to the interior / motor when removing the saddle tank section.

Al.

[Ruston]

14 hours ago, Andrew D said:

Throwing my hat into the ring... Lovely model but it does not like poor Setrack in a wobbly boxfile. I'm looking forward to having a layout with trackwork that supports it better. 

 

 

You say that it slows on points. With Setrack, you're relying only on the point blades making contact with the stock rails and so a bad contact there will add a lot of resistance and that is the likely cause of the slowing. What about the rest of the track - are you relying only on the fishplates for electrical conductivity from one piece of track to another?

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

There's one thing.

Access to the interior / motor when removing the saddle tank section.

Al.

I’d just cut the pipe behind the plate and glue the top bit in place with the plate and the lower half just located by cutting a v in the plastic spacer supporting the plate so it lines up as you push the tank back down. 
 

Edited February 4, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Andrew D]

3 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Do you want us to take a look at it? Watching your vid it does seem like it might not be picking up through all the wheels. Hopefully this is something we can rectify.

I have the same suspicion. Will do the necessary via the website etc. Many thanks for the support 👍

[Andrew D]

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

You say that it slows on points. With Setrack, you're relying only on the point blades making contact with the stock rails and so a bad contact there will add a lot of resistance and that is the likely cause of the slowing. What about the rest of the track - are you relying only on the fishplates for electrical conductivity from one piece of track to another?

Them there point blades cannot be relied upon one iota! Everything is wired to feed both sides of the points and fitted with isolating sections. Indeed there might be resistance, but I don’t get this problem with other locos. I think it’s more likely a pick-up issue. 

[Ruston]

3 minutes ago, Andrew D said:

Them there point blades cannot be relied upon one iota! Everything is wired to feed both sides of the points and fitted with isolating sections. Indeed there might be resistance, but I don’t get this problem with other locos. I think it’s more likely a pick-up issue. 

When you say that everything is wired to feed both sides of the points, do you mean that the wires are soldered directly to the points and what they aren't wired to the next piece of track, with the points being connected by the fishplates? There is a simple way to find out - get a multimeter out and measure the resistance at the point blades and compare it with the reading on a piece of track that has the feed wires from the controller soldered directly to it.

[rogerzilla]

I doubt it's the points.  My layout, built in a day back in 2015 from s/h setrack, has one power feed per oval and insulfrog points.  Alex doesn't cut out on them.

[NHY 581]

Just out of interest, is the cab roof 3D printed ? 

 

 

As it's been whizzing around, I've noticed the light catching this detail on the loco. 

 

 

Rob. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

27 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Just out of interest, is the cab roof 3D printed ? 

 

 

As it's been whizzing around, I've noticed the light catching this detail on the loco. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

Looks like a couple of models I have.

 

Likely when the tooling was machined the surface of the cab roof in the CAD was made up of flat faces rather than a perfect curve and it's not been polished out fully.

[Jammy2305]

6 hours ago, atom3624 said:

There's one thing.

Access to the interior / motor when removing the saddle tank section.

Al.

 

Oops... I'd overlooked that! Glad I've not done anything yet!

 

Cheers

 

James

[Jester]

Been running my Hunslet in and testing on a shunting layout I'm going to build. As you can see in the video it has no issues with used Peco ST-240/1 points on track that hasn't been fixed down yet. Slow running at the end also looks good to me. Running on DCC with a zimo MX618N18 non-sound chip (spare I had from the days you could still buy chips!)

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Jester

[Sitham Yard]

Just tested my Thorne No.1 straight out of the box. Test track has two Peco code 100 three way points electrofrog with Gaugemaster Combi DC controller. Performance is fine, yes you do have to open up controller a little on the points but that is acceptable to me. If you go very slowly, particularly forwards, over a sharply curved point it might stall or derail but a little more power is fine. Judging by the noise any problems are possibly caused by a combination of the curve and the gap at the frog/crossing nose.  Probably sensitive to any unevenness in the track particularly at points.    

Andrew

[Ian J.]

I wonder if the back-to-back gauge of the wheels is close to, or slightly above, the 14.5mm normal maximum for conventional OO on some examples...?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Ian J.

[RANGERS]

On 28/01/2023 at 20:14, 46444 said:

 

It will be worth the wait Rangers.. 

 

You won't be disappointed....

Pleased to say Ring Haw arrived on Wednesday, though not being home much this week, it was this morning before I opened it but I can confirm I wasn't disappointed, it is a superbly crafted model.

 

Looking forward to the pair of sound fitted ones when Rapido let them out of quarantine!

 

[NHY 581]

Well....Having had my original one exchanged by the retailer, I've spent the afternoon running in the replacement. Plenty of grease in the chassis, less than the last but quite a bit all the same. This was left alone. Of note, the three screws in the keeper plate were quite loose, contrasting with the first example whose screws were over tight. Again the keeper plate was seemingly stuck to the chassis and again needed a flat bladed screw driver wiggling to loosen. The wheels moved from side to side freely, lacking the stickiness of the first one. 

 

I tightened the screws on the keeper plate prior to running in. 

 

I've no idea how or why but after a couple of hours running in both directions this one now also squeaks, hesitates, even when running forwards over straight track but will occasionally gradually halt as required..........or will simply halt as the mood takes it. I would definately say that this example started as a much better runner than the first and it deteriorated. 

 

Whilst running, it was turned on a regular basis to make sure it wasn't constantly turning in the same direction if that makes sense. The Gaugemaster combi was set at 30 and increased to 40 after a bit.

 

This then will be returned to the retailer. I've decided there won't be a third. I accept I have, in all probability, been very unlucky as the testimonials from happy owners suggest but I'll be exchnging this for a different loco. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Ian J.]

It strikes me that the manufacturing tolerances of RTR models, ostensibly in China, aren't good enough to guarantee that all instances of locomotives turned out will be capable of super smooth, very slow running for shunting layouts. Either that, or the cost of ensuring such capability is prohibitively expensive...?

[Schooner]

I'm sure that's a factor, but those tolerances should be similar across the hobby. The Hattons P, Hornby W4 and Dapol B4, for example, have excellent reputations for smooth slow-speed control on DC across multiple production runs. Suggests the key is in the design, not the production.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Schooner
Good things come in threes

[rope runner]

These 16" Hunslet models are superb and I wouldn't hesitate to pick up any further industrial locos Rapido might bring us. 

 

Paul A. 

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, Schooner said:

I'm sure that's a factor, but those tolerances should be similar across the hobby. The Hattons P, Hornby W4 and Dapol B4, for example, have excellent reputations for smooth slow-speed control on DC across multiple production runs. Suggests the key is in the design, not the production.

 

There's a difference between the comparative behaviour we should perhaps expect of 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 mechanisms when negotiating No.2 radius points. 

 

0-4-0s by their very nature shouldn't have any issues, the semi-compensated Dapol B4 in particular, and neither will short wheelbase 0-6-0s so long as the mechanism incorporates enough "slop".

 

One thing my Rapido Hunslet most certainly doesn't have is a sloppy mechanism, it feels much more "together" than any of my other (mostly Hornby) small locos except the PI Victory. My Hornby 6-w Sentinel diesel has a similar wheelbase but seems much "looser" and needed almost no running in. Conversely, 'Arthur" has had a couple of hours so far and gives the impression that a bit more might pay dividends in achieving maximum smoothness.  

 

I therefore wonder if any slowing on R2 points might be due to mechanical resistance rather than any electrical issue. I can't test my theory as the tightest point available to try mine over is a Streamline short Y (nominal 24" radius), which has no discernible effect.

 

John

 

   

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Butler Henderson]

If anyone thought they had missed out with Ring Haw Hardys Hobbies have recently listed a few as being avalable - now just one left

https://hardyshobbies.co.uk/shop/partners/rapido/rapido-trains-16-hunslet-ring-haw-hardys-hobbies-exclusive/

[NHY 581]

4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

There's a difference between the comparative behaviour we should perhaps expect of 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 mechanisms when negotiating No.2 radius points. 

 

0-4-0s by their very nature shouldn't have any issues, the semi-compensated Dapol B4 in particular, and neither will short wheelbase 0-6-0s so long as the mechanism incorporates enough "slop".

 

One thing my Rapido Hunslet most certainly doesn't have is a sloppy mechanism, it feels much more "together" than any of my other (mostly Hornby) small locos except the PI Victory. My Hornby 6-w Sentinel diesel has a similar wheelbase but seems much "looser" and needed almost no running in. Conversely, 'Arthur" has had a couple of hours so far and gives the impression that a bit more might pay dividends in achieving maximum smoothness.  

 

I therefore wonder if any slowing on R2 points might be due to mechanical resistance rather than any electrical issue. I can't test my theory as the tightest point available to try mine over is a Streamline short Y (nominal 24" radius), which has no discernible effect.

 

John

 

   

 

 

I'm inclined to agree with your thoughts on the "togetherness" of the Hunslet..

My first example clouted this point * ( PECO small radius code 75 )

*

 

when running in reverse with a noticeable "clunk" as the rear wheels entered the point with clearly discernable movement. This was before I removed the excess grease from the wheels/bearings. Once that was done, it was much better but still a little clunky ( but not unpleasant given this is an industrial loco in an industrial enviroment )

 

My second example did no such thing and negotiated it without incident. 

 

I know further back there has been a suggestion that jointed coupling rods may be advantageous. That said, the current set up on the Hunslet is more preferable to that on say, the Heljan 14 which has a silly amount of side play and is quite unhelpful at times.......

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

[Schooner]

I don't disagree @Dunsignalling

 

On 04/02/2023 at 00:10, Schooner said:

I can easily forgive an 0-6-0 struggling through SetTrack curves...

...although retailers explicitly state that the model is suitable for R1 curves...

 

The point was about the mechanism, to try to understand why the Rapido Hunslet, so good on so many levels, is being found unacceptable in its slow speed control for some. A siginificant issue for an industrial shunter.

 

It's not size - see smaller W4 or B4

It's not wheel arrangement - see the P or Victory

It's not intent - Rapido are experienced manufacturers, and obviously put a lot into trying to create a grear-running model

It's not sloppy manufacturing - otherwise every model from every manufacturer would be a lottery in its running qualities.

Is it that we need to adjust our expectations and run the models in for several hours, rather than 30 mins? Not sure what the manual says here, but note this wasn't @NHY 581's experience.

Is it there's scope to further hone designs to improve that hardest area for model locos - smooth control at minimum speed on DC on tight curvature...the exact regime industrials spend most of their time in...

 

No dramas, and I've no skin the in the game, but it's more fun to find useful ways to improve these things than hunt for excuses not to, no?

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Schooner

[Captain Kernow]

10 hours ago, Ian J. said:

It strikes me that the manufacturing tolerances of RTR models, ostensibly in China, aren't good enough to guarantee that all instances of locomotives turned out will be capable of super smooth, very slow running for shunting layouts. Either that, or the cost of ensuring such capability is prohibitively expensive...?

I cannot help but have some sympathy with this viewpoint.

 

I don't want to direct any unnecessary or gratuitous criticism Rapido's way, because they are to be congratulated most heartily for (a) entering the UK 4mm market and (b) producing an interesting range of models, but... I really question the validity of their assertion that the design of their drive mechanisms (where the motor and gearing is integral to some of the key the body parts, thus rendering it impossible to simply separate 'chassis and motor' from the 'body') and some of the other design elements, including the lack of 'slop' and unarticulated coupling rods, for example.

 

Rapido say that the integration of the drive mechanism into the loco body is favoured by their factory and (to paraphrase) is 'popular elsewhere in the world'. This last assertion may well be true (I haven't had  experience of USA steam outline models or any recent Continental ones), but all these countries have one thing in common that we in the UK do not - they model in HO (3.5mm to the foot), so there is no real reason for the vast majority of their customers to want to tinker with the mechanisms or widen the gauge.

 

As such, this trend in designing products that do not encourage modellers to tinker unduly with the locos seems to mirror recent trends in consumer products, that require specialist technicians to attend to repairs (such as our tumble dryer, which our normal servicing and repair person took a look at but then said that only a trained Bosch technician could get it working properly again - and Bosch were indeed very good and helpful in that regard).

 

This may not worry some modellers, but for those of us of a 'certain age', who cut their teeth dismantling and re-assembling Triang and Hornby Dublo models, this 'not to be tinkered with' approach does go somewhat against the grain.

 

I am sure that Rapido and other manufacturers are always checking on what 'the competition' is up do. They must surely be aware of what designs work well and what are not particularly popular with the customer base (eg. the DJM 'diesel motor bogie' design for the 14XX).

 

One pretty successful manufacturer in this respect is Bachmann. Their recent 94XX, for example, runs well, looks superb and the chassis comes cleanly away from the body with the undoing of two simple screws!

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

1 minute ago, Schooner said:

The point was about the mechanism, to try to understand why the Rapido Hunslet, so good on so many levels, is being found unacceptable in its slow speed control for some. A siginificant issue for an industrial shunter.

 

It's not size - see smaller W4 or B4

It's not wheel arrangement - see the P or Victory

It's not intent - Rapido are experienced manufacturers, and obviously put a lot into trying to create a grear-running model

It's not sloppy manufacturing - otherwise every model from every manufacturer would be a lottery in its running qualities.

Is it that we need to adjust our expectations and run the models in for several hours, rather than 30 mins? Not sure what the manual says here, but not this wasn't @NHY 581's experience.

Thinking about the above most thought-provoking observations, I am beginning to wonder what the problem is.

 

Previous instances of erratic running on some models for some people, but not for others, have got me thinking about design of motors (coreless in the examples I'm thinking of) and the types of DC control that some of us (including me) are using?

 

Just a thought.

 

[Butler Henderson]

...and is running in being done appropriately . I always run a loco in for at least an hour round a Unitrack oval on a wooden floor- 15 min forward, 15 mins reverse, turned round and repeated.  That way any pick up issues on curves should show up - worse was Bachmann 7F 2-8-0 which needed all its pick ups tweaking, and should anything fall off it should be easilly found.