WR ‘15XX’ 0-6-0PT - 00 Gauge

[Captain Kernow]

I had a chance to have a close look at a 15XX in my local model shop - Expressway Models at Buckfastleigh station - and it is a real beauty. I didn't get one (because I had already spent quite enough on some LMS opens) but the flanges seem quite fine and I do wonder if they might be OK on my sharp OO-SF crossover...

 

[97xx]

4 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Just wondering if this is a private area for those with passwords or are these links meant to be for everyone to look at, because I can't find any photos of model locos using these links.

 

Thanks.

 

They are links to a publicly accessible set of files - annoyingly you do need to download them as 'visitors' to Box cannot watch them online. If you have a Box account you should be able to view them in a browser.

 

Sorry it's all a bit of a kludge!

[JimC]

On 19/09/2023 at 16:30, phil-b259 said:

 

IIRC Hawksworth was impressed with the American 0-6-0 tanks bought over during WW2 and noted how the Southern had bought some for use at Southampton docks as the war ended with the outside valve gear and easy to maintain nature of the design being particularly noteworthy.

 

He therefore decided to 'Swindonise' the basic American design with a view to replicating the success the SR had with the genuine US products - alas the end result ended up being very heavy and not as effective as Hawksworth hoped

According to the drawings list the NRM publish work was already in progress on the 15xx design in January 1944, (and, it seems, possibly before the 9400) and so Hawksworth can't possibly have noted what the Southern were buying in 1946!  I wrote my opinions up in a blog piece last year - see here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/blogs/entry/25226-gwrwr-15xx-class-1948/ but suffice to say that looked at in detail the 15xx is a very different beast to the S100 in spite of the superficial external similarity. Its certainly not remotely a Swindonised S100. In particular the wheelbase on the 15xx is some 30% longer than the S100. My basic premise in the blog is that given the outside cylinders and the boiler size the wheelbase is as long as could be managed.

 

[G-BOAF]

Finally unboxed my 1501.

First impressions no glue, everything pretty much perfect, except for a wonky numberplate (which I figured I would be able to fix).

Admiring it on the desk....

then noticed the scratches in the white lining on one side, and the hair/dust particle implanted in the tank side on the other.

A few other issues (slight glue smudge on fire iron hook, and a few chipped rivets on rear buffer beam), I could have lived with.

 

Retailer now sold out (obviously), and only has sound fitted models left. Nice as the sound is, I'd rather spend my money one something else right now.

 

What to do. I'm sleeping on it. It would be quicker to source from another retailer than send to Rapido for repair.

Edited September 20, 2023 by G-BOAF

[StuartGWR]

I want to congratulate Rapido on this wonderful model.  The detail and general appearance are breathtaking, and to see it pulling round a rake of wagons using the supplied screw-link couplings, and rounding my  25" radius curves, making use of the gently-sprung buffers, is an eye-opener in both senses of the term. 

 

Are there quality-control issues? Yes. Do they spoil the model? No. Do I wish it was better - yes, of course.  There is no steam-lance cock, a bit of a scratch across LHS lining and number plate, and I had to remove some glue from the top of the LH mainframe under the smokebox.  The wheels needed truing up (few models don't I find), and I have had to adjust the quartering.  The axles are not quite in the centre of the wheels, so there is still some up/down movement at RH rear,  but not excessively so, and the adjustments I have made, together with running in, have made a useful improvement to the generally-smooth "out-of-box" running. It is now delightful.

 

I absolutely love this model, it is a feast for the eyes whether stopped or running, and I think Rapido should be very proud of their achievement.  The money is very well spent indeed.  Perhaps quality control can be tightened a bit, but I am not in the least disappointed with my purchase.

 

 

[peterfgf]

On 14/09/2023 at 17:28, rapidoandy said:

Have you looked at the INSIDE of the cab shutter plates? I recommend a torch and magnifier…

Apologies if someone has beaten me to it, but here is a photograph of the notice inside left hand side of the cab.  Very impressive (as is the whole model).

Peterfgf

[Rockalaucher101]

Well I received mine yesterday, was waiting for me when I got back from work. Been run in on rollers, 30 minutes forward and back.

Yes it wobbles.

Yes there were glue marks (managed to chip the worst of the larger clumps off)

Yes there were a few bent or broken bits, glued those back on. (The small part to the left of the smokebox door seems to be reliably broken on every example I've seen photographed, including mine!)

But despite all that, I love this model. It capture the look and feel of the real one nicely. Nice n weighty for a tank engine, livery's nicely applied and the level of detail is frankly amazing. 1501 was waiting at Kidderminster on the first day I started volunteering after college, so I have fond memories of the sole survivor. Glad to have her join my fleet of preserved models, finally.

 

[Edge]

My replacement model has just been dispatched from Kernow - let’s see how this one does…

Edited September 21, 2023 by Edge

[Captain Kernow]

 

20 hours ago, StuartGWR said:

Are there quality-control issues? Yes. Do they spoil the model? No. Do I wish it was better - yes, of course.  There is no steam-lance cock, a bit of a scratch across LHS lining and number plate, and I had to remove some glue from the top of the LH mainframe under the smokebox.  The wheels needed truing up (few models don't I find), and I have had to adjust the quartering.  The axles are not quite in the centre of the wheels, so there is still some up/down movement at RH rear,  but not excessively so, and the adjustments I have made, together with running in, have made a useful improvement to the generally-smooth "out-of-box" running.

 

6 hours ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Yes it wobbles.

Yes there were glue marks (managed to chip the worst of the larger clumps off)

Yes there were a few bent or broken bits, glued those back on. (The small part to the left of the smokebox door seems to be reliably broken on every example I've seen photographed, including mine!)

 

I admire you gents (and any others) who are happy to accept faults on a brand new RTR model, but I would return mine to the retailer if that happened to me.

 

I had a chance to have a good look at one yesterday and they really do look lovely, but I didn't get it in the end.

 

If all of these issues can be sorted by 'better quality control', then I for one would be very happy to pay more to cover that cost, if it meant that unblemished body and faultless slow speed running were guaranteed.

 

[Butler Henderson]

Mine has gone back to Rapido - they reckon a 2-3 weeks turn round. No issues with it being bought not directly from them and the seller had sold out. Would recommend anyone with one that is faulty in some respect does the same as  I would expect it either gets repaired or replaced by one that hopefully is fully checked before it gets sent,  Aside from the missing paint issues, having said it was a good runner once slowed to almost a crawl it did wobble so noted that as well, Nothing to lose in doing so as far I can see - they send a Tracked 48 label for the return and having posted mine yesterday luchtime and so far it has got to the Meday Mail Centre having first had a Trans Pennine journey to the North West superhub.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Butler Henderson

[97xx]

I'm afraid I must be missing something here - bits missing, items bent or broken, chimneys at odd angles, glue across the model, detrietus in the paint, chassis that are fundamentally out of true, and wheels with the centres bored off centre!

 

Yet an excellent model???

 

What Rapido aspired to and designed was/is indeed truly outstanding, But what their chinese supplier has delivered is way, way, short of what we, and Rapido, paid for.

 

Most/many of these defects are blindingly obvious when these models go in the box - we are told how much hand finishing is required so someone actually saw these defects and quite deliberately and consciously packed it up and shipped it hoping they'd get away with it. And this very point makes any comments about "it's only a small proportion" null and void.

 

We are surely not helping Rapido by basically saying that we'll settle for the major defects, try to fix them ourselves, straighten out wheelsets, or just live with them? The supplier will be laughing all the way to the bank!

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by 97xx

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, 97xx said:

I'm afraid I must be missing something here

 

Yes.

 

There is a factor missing and, to me, it's evident that there's a brand and people here that a number of people like to like whereas, elsewhere, there are some brands and people that love to dislike. There is also the fact that there are models out there that don't have any problems or minor issues that some are prepared to accept or rectify. I am satisfied with mine and, maybe like others, continuing to repeat, or summarise, any issues is unnecessary.

 

Rapido have said that there are models that don't meet their and customer's expectations and that people should make contact directly with them to give them the opportunity to rectify any issues.

[G-BOAF]

44 minutes ago, 97xx said:

I'm afraid I must be missing something here - bits missing, items bent or broken, chimneys at odd angles, glue across the model, detrietus in the paint, chassis that are fundamentally out of true, and wheels with the centres bored off centre!

 

Yet an excellent model???

 

What Rapido aspired to and designed was/is indeed truly outstanding, But what their chinese supplier has delivered is way, way, short of what we, and Rapido, paid for.

 

Most/many of these defects are blindingly obvious when these models go in the box - we are told how much hand finishing is required so someone actually saw these defects and quite deliberately and consciously packed it up and shipped it hoping they'd get away with it. And this very point makes any comments about "it's only a small proportion" null and void.

 

We are surely not helping Rapido by basically saying that we'll settle for the major defects, try to fix them ourselves, straighten out wheelsets, or just live with them? The supplier will be laughing all the way to the bank!

 

 

 

I think this is the issue, and I hope Rapido are able to go back to their contractors/partners in China and politely slap wrists and get changes. Rapido as a company are excellent, with excellent people who also listen to their fellow enthusiast customer base in terms of feedback. It seems their production in China, or some elements of it have really slipped. This is not good for Rapido nor the customer. I've said it so many times across I think all manufactures, that its all well and good designing and tooling an excellent model, but if the assembly or decoration is poor, or incorrect details fitted, it really detracts. I would rather a perfect model in mechanical and external decoration terms, than notices printed inside sliding shutters.

 

This is what should be happening in terms of QC, but somehow didn't on this batch of models.

 

I do hope Rapdio consider supplying replacement wheelsets for this batch as well.

Mine had dust/hair implanted UNDER the tampo printed lining, so this is a failure of QC much earlier than final packaging (i.e. why was this part allowed to go to the print shop?).

 

If its a cost issue, I'm tempted to say these models are *too cheap*. I'm not sure how Accurascale manage their contracts, but there is no retailer discounting at least on recent loco releases, so presumably their wholesale prices are higher. The fact that retailers are able to discount Rapido models makes me wonder if they have potentially cut costs somewhere. I know this is a much smaller model than a Manor, but in terms of number of parts, its probably not that different (aside from wheels and tender), yet it £c45 cheaper based on discount prices.

 

I'm returning mine to my first retailer and have bought elsewhere, which I hope will not have so many (noticeable) decoration defects.

 

The quality is certainly not what it was compared say with a Class 156 I have. I will admit that my Stirling single arrived sans tender buffer, but a spare was supplied (in other respects, including the running plate and decoration) it was perfect so I didn't want to exchange with Locomotion models.

[spamcan61]

30 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

I think this is the issue, and I hope Rapido are able to go back to their contractors/partners in China and politely slap wrists and get changes.  

 

 

From direct personal experience in my day job, going into pretty much any Far Eastern company and slapping wrists will get you nowhere. All part of the challenges of managing outsourced manufacture in a very different cultural environment.

[RapidoCorbs]

1 hour ago, 97xx said:

What Rapido aspired to and designed was/is indeed truly outstanding, But what their chinese supplier has delivered is way, way, short of what we, and Rapido, paid for.

 

34 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

This is what should be happening in terms of QC, but somehow didn't on this batch of models

 

We agree. Before we get distracted in this thread again by talking about how relationships between brands and suppliers work, please let us handle conversations with our supplier.

 

We don't need to fill the thread guessing how or why these issues occurred or how we are going to proceed in the future.

 

In the short term, our aim is to fix or replace the affected models so that our customers can get what they paid for. 

[Captain Kernow]

54 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

it's evident that there's a brand and people here that a number of people like to like whereas, elsewhere, there are some brands and people that love to dislike

For what it's worth, I've decided to really try to give Rapido a second chance, but I'm stymied by the fact that the OO-SF track I've built doesn't like some of the newer RTR flange profiles. It's fine with Markits/RP25 (and that's what I used to test it with).

 

I'm also trying to find a good DC, non-feedback controller that can do the best by the modern coreless motors that Rapido use.

 

I really can't justify a 15XX in OO, but if I can crack the controller issue, find a sweet running example and the flange profile matches Markits RP25 wheels, then I will get one anyway...

 

I'll even give the 16XX and the Hunslet another chance, if the above planets line up...

 

Unfortunately this flange profile issue affects other manufacturers as well. My Accurascale Manor is going back (it runs like a dog, even after a lot of running in and the flange profile doesn't like Bethesda) and the wheels on the Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart don't like my points either, but in that case, it's (hopefully) an easy fix by substituting Markits wheels on 3mm axles...

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

My 1501 arrived earlier in the week but I've only just had chance to examine it.

 

First impression was wow and this was borne out by initial inspection, no glue or oil marks, no evident paint flaws, but the front left footstep is missing. I'm pretty certain nothing loose fell out when I unboxed the model.

  

I've just tested the loco on my rolling road. Very quiet, but it exhibits a bad case of "rock and roll", both up-and-down and side-to-side. 

 

I'm afraid it will have to go back. Can I use the report/return link posted earlier, or does it need to go back via Hatton's?

 

PS. Just gone back to look for the link and can't find it!

 

John 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Ryan91]

I'm happy to tell mine runs, sounds and looks like a dream. Nothing negative to mention actually!

The front left footsteps fell off the second time I unboxed it. I noticed it after a few hours of running. I was very relieved that I found it back on the floor later that night. Slightly bend as the steps couldn't handle a 1:1 scale person 🤪 But not to bad!

[217 RIVER FLESK]

I rarely post on here, as time & life doesn't allow any modelling time, but I keep buying stuff in the hope that one day things will change.

 

It was a bit of a stretch buying a 15XX as my layout will be set in the Taunton - Newton Abbott kind of area, but I caved in, even though some of the comments on here filled me with dread.

 

Anyway, Hattons supplied me with a DC lined 1505 & I'm very pleased with it. If there are any glue marks, one really has to go looking for them & the paint finish is fine all over. There is one very small section of black paint that is missing from the end of the smoke box hand rail where it nears one of the pannier tanks. Other defects if one is being really picky are that one of the whistles has a slight lean as does one of the brass coloured oil pots on the front of the cylinders, but I'm sure both can be tweaked with a pair of tweezers if they bother me in the future. Nothing appears to be bent, such as the fitting on the front of the smokebox & everything was in place, with nothing rattling around in the box.

 

The loco also appears to run fine, nice & smooth & if one really stares at it closely, then yes possibly it might have a hint of an off centre wheel, but you really really have to go looking for this possible issue.

 

So, in short, there are some good locos out there. 

 

For what it's worth, the loco came via Royal Mail.

 

Cheers, Mike C 

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

For what it's worth, I've decided to really try to give Rapido a second chance, but I'm stymied by the fact that the OO-SF track I've built doesn't like some of the newer RTR flange profiles. It's fine with Markits/RP25 (and that's what I used to test it with).

 

I'm also trying to find a good DC, non-feedback controller that can do the best by the modern coreless motors that Rapido use.

 

I really can't justify a 15XX in OO, but if I can crack the controller issue, find a sweet running example and the flange profile matches Markits RP25 wheels, then I will get one anyway...

 

I'll even give the 16XX and the Hunslet another chance, if the above planets line up...

 

Unfortunately this flange profile issue affects other manufacturers as well. My Accurascale Manor is going back (it runs like a dog, even after a lot of running in and the flange profile doesn't like Bethesda) and the wheels on the Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart don't like my points either, but in that case, it's (hopefully) an easy fix by substituting Markits wheels on 3mm axles...

 

 

In this matter,Gaugemaster is your friend . My Combi is good for both coreless and conventional motors 

[Mallard60022]

Another penneth worth. 

I spent a couple of hours yesterday, first examining my 1504, then fitting a Dapol Next 18, Coaling it a little and once I had still found no blemishes or bits missing, sticking a Lamp on the front. That took about 30 minutes.

When I had run it around forward and in Rverse for about 90 minutes, hauling 7, not very free running tarted up Dapol Midland Coaches and a decent Hornby SR Bogie Van with ease, I concluded that it did wiggle a bit going forwards (but less that a Real USA Tank on the Nene Valley that bucked like a tetchy racehorse), but it relished running in Reverse with just a hint of 0.6.0. shuffle. (Note to self: need to fit a lamp on the Bunker, and work out how to get the Crew in the Cab!)

I tweaked the Decoder settings and may do so again, as I want a slightly slower acceleration. I shall then run it yet again, having removed the appropriate hideous coupling...or even both.

I suspect that after that time spent ensuring I was correct to be overjoyed when I first got it, I shall cover it in a layer of filth, fit the detail bits plus some others as per a photo supplied on here...thanks for that.

Best bit of therapy I've had in weeks, or since I got my Accurascale Manor!

I took a pic but forgot that the damn front Coupling was there in all its awfulness; my apologies.

 

[Pteremy]

1 hour ago, 217 RIVER FLESK said:

 

 

It was a bit of a stretch buying a 15XX as my layout will be set in the Taunton - Newton Abbott kind of area, but I caved in, even though some of the comments on here filled me with dread.

 

 

My 'excuse' is that one was briefly lent to Barnstaple Junction to work the local twisty turny sidings, but also Barnstaple Victoria, before being sold to the NCB.....

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'm afraid it will have to go back. Can I use the report/return link posted earlier, or does it need to go back via Hatton's?

 

PS. Just gone back to look for the link and can't find it!

 

[The Johnster]

On 19/09/2023 at 16:21, G-BOAF said:

I can understand that the 94XX were intended to update an otherwise 20+ year old design in the 57XX, but where heavier and therefore not quite as versatile.

Why then were then 15XX built? They have the same weight problems, but aside from the outside motion, would appear to have no advantages over the 94XX (with whom they share a boiler).

 

Were they an attempt to Hawksworth to influence the design of a standard BR Shunter? Obviously this never went further, nor did any small Standard Steam locomotive as the Diesel 08 came into being, along with the closure of many small shunting yards.

They were originally intended as dock shunting engines for tight curvature, and were used in this way at the South Wales ports.  Their association with the Paddington ecs work, for which they were not really suitable at all, came about after someone amongst the chattering classes complained to his MP about the Victorian appearance of the 8750s at the buffer stops (M7s at Waterloo seem not to have bothered anyone).  Paddington ecs work was associated with lined mixed traffic livery. 
 

Whether any steam locomotive should have been built for dock shunting work after the war is a moot point; 350hp diesels were much more suitable, with 24/7 availability and a proven reliable design.  There was an argument for continuing to produce 8750s and building the 94xx; the 8750s were used for main line goods and passenger work, including runs long enough to require gangwayed stock with toilets such as Newport-Brecon or Swansea-Treherbert, and the 94xx were part of Swindon’s ongoing policy of replacing engines inherited at the grouping, 0-6-2 tanks such as the Taff Vale As and 04s, or the Rhymney R class, which were life-expired by this time.  They were not conceived as a replacement for the earlier panniers.  The 16xx were replacements for the 2021 half-cab panniers. 
 

Things, not all of them under the railways’ control, moved very rapidly after the building of the Hawksworth panniers (during the building of the later ones like the 34xx series of 94xx) as the need for them was eliminated within a decade by falling freight and mineral traffic and the introduction of dmus on the WR in the late 50s and early 60s.  The diesel replacement for the 94xx, the Class 14, delayed in construction and delivered late, also suffered from this; by the time they appeared the trip work they were built for had more or less vanished.  Such trip work as remained was given over to 08s, to the despair of signalmen trying to find paths for trains running at reasonable speeds and clearing sections in reasonable time…

 

No better engine has been yet devised for yard/dock shunting and station pilot work than the 08, but they are not much good at anything else; the Americans would call it a ‘yard switcher’.  This explains the thinking behind the various Type 1 diesels, what the Americans would call ‘road switchers’, to replace steam 0-6-0s.  Their work dried up at the same time, post-Beeching, and the only long-term success was the use of nose-to-nose double-headed 20s, which found a niche on MGR work where a 60mph 8-axle 2khp lashup was very useful!  20s were still being delivered five years after Beeching, while the 15s and 16s were being scrapped. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by The Johnster

[Mallard60022]

Apologies but I am not able to edit the there (why?) pictures on my recent post.

It isn't a spot the difference thing!

Phil