WR ‘15XX’ 0-6-0PT - 00 Gauge

[97xx]

An/the issue that we have now is that there's 'stuff' between the track and the motor - and if you use low rent components (which they will be - see other threads about I think it was APT and burning out of components)  then you can and will get problems with less than perfect controllers.

 

There are often references to old H&M type controllers - the issue is that they put out potentially higher maximum voltages and also have zero 'smoothing'. So, although they are 'DC' in the strictest sense of the definition, they are actually fluctuating DC.

 

They basically take the sine wave and just rectify it - which means the 'negative' lobe gets flipped to the positive side - thus all the voltage out is positive, but it is varying from zero volts to the set volts at 100 times per second.

 

Also, the H&M type was deigned to put out enough beans to drive big HD Ringfield and Triang XO4 type motors - which easily took up to 500mA - meaning that if you apply this to some tiddly chinese coreless motor which draws 100mA then the voltage can rise too high - because the power draw normally pulls an output voltage down.

 

Let me add that this should NOT affect any well-designed electronics. But if you stick a inadequately rated component in such a circuit then something may go pop.

[Dunsignalling]

If you have a "shunting plank" or BLT and don't expect your locos to shift more than (say) half-a-dozen wagons at modest speeds over short distances, it's unlikely that a modern feedback controller would do a coreless motor any harm at all.

 

However, full length expresses doing laps of big roundy-roundies at a scale 75 mph would be an altogether different can of worms. Those are conditions feedback controllers were designed for, to enable the speed of heavy trains to be maintained irrespective of gradient or track curvature. 

 

John

Edited September 27, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

In summation….perhaps……we must accept that the world moves on and we must needs move with it.

[Mallard60022]

I've given up now. I shall carry on doing what I've been doing for decades and if I blow up a Loco then it might be amusing, unless of course it is one of my faves, OR a new and very expensive one. It won't matter too much if it's a Pannier as there are thousands of the damn things.

When I were still in shorts, I used to blow up Airfix Kits, that I had built, using Bangers, so I obviously have issues regarding destruction; I was born after the second war...just. Maybe that is the hidden defect in my psyche? 

Thanks for the interesting discussion though. I am in total awe of folks' knowledge about trickery stuff.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

Forgot to say, how about a Hawksworth County Mr Rapido, before another Firm does one?

SATB

Phil

[gwrrob]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

South Devon Fire Brigade livery. (I'll hide now)

 

Ne nah, ne nah, ne nah, ne nah.....

 

[micklner]

54 minutes ago, DavidH said:

 

Is that likely? They haven't said they will. It seems from reports that they're doing perfectly well with the repairs themselves.

 

 

There must have been a good reason you didn't take it up with the retailer? All I read at the moment is "I wasn't going to do the thing I was meant to do, so I threatened the manufacturer instead until they gave up". They probably gave in because your correspondence to them was giving someone a headache and taking up far too much time and energy. (Speaking from experience of a partner who makes and sells craft items, and can't believe the obsession and sense of entitlement of a small handful of customers.)

Same re the Wheels as well, simply send it back while you still have current Warranty .

[RapidoCorbs]

We would always advise getting in touch sooner rather than later. 

[MikeParkin65]

16 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Forgot to say, how about a Hawksworth County Mr Rapido, before another Firm does one?

SATB

Phil

I'm just waiting for Hornby, AS, Rapido and Dapol all to announce the County at Warley (and Bachmann the 8F)  🤣

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm just waiting for Hornby, AS, Rapido and Dapol all to announce the County at Warley (and Bachmann the 8F)  🤣

They could all do one, as there were three Chimney types;  join forces and each produce a Chimney for a Cooperatively produced Loco and Tender. That's what I call having fun. Modelu could produce some 'Detail' parts and their custom made for Loco Crew(s)

All 4 then have the excuse to play at Didcot.

P

[Gopher]

50 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Has anyone managed to fit a crew to their 15xx yet ?

Yes I have Robin. Modelu driver and fireman. Quite straightforward. Take out 4 screws (two under the removable tank fillers, two under and at rear of chassis).  Body lifts off exposing cab footplate. 

 

Clive

[RapidoCorbs]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

I've tested my 1504 DCC Sound fitted on a Gaugemaster handheld and all seems good. There's slight waddle but nothing like enough for me to worry about. All bits seem to be in place and nothing loose.

 

Without seeing it, it's hard to say for sure, but most of them have a small side-to-side movement owing to the wheelbase etc.

The problematic ones tend to display up/down movement which points to the wheelset being faulty.

[Schooner]

Not that he needs defending, but I've just watched that review... I found it informative, as it is good to see the loco in the close-up shots, in pieces, and running from 'normal viewing distances'. As ever, I could've watched it on mute quite happily, but the commentary does give a useful level of consistency. It's a subjective view, sure, but there's a long record of that view taking in an awful lot of models which helps me calibrate for my own experience. 

 

To paraphrase: superb detail; good mechanism; okay running on DC (low torque being the main issue); poor quality control. Sounds like a reasonable take on the model reviewed. We would all send it straight back; Sam publishes a public review on YouTube - that's his job. He finishes by recommending purchase, based on our consumer rights entitling us to a replacement or refund.

 

Shame not to see Rapido's response pinned under the video so others know about their excellent after-sales service, but no need to lay into Sam's Trains because we don't agree with his approach to the hobby or primary employment.

 

EDIT: In the subsequent review of Hornby's latest L&MR wagons, the Rapido 15XX is held up as an example of effective research, realism and good value. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Schooner

[railcar1]

Anyone tried running it down a gradient?

[Ian J.]

2 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Without seeing it, it's hard to say for sure, but most of them have a small side-to-side movement owing to the wheelbase etc.

The problematic ones tend to display up/down movement which points to the wheelset being faulty.

 

That slight side-to-side movement sounds like mine. It's almost unnoticeable, and I thought it probably reflects the real thing anyway.

[Moley48]

I may well be going slightly mad but, my 1501 improved dramatically after a good run and any undulating movement has almost completely disappeared. I'm even starting to think a crew of maintenance workers popped out in the dead of night in the form of little spiders and sorted out any issues with my loco whilst I wasn't looking. 😲

 

Yes, I think your right. I need 💊.

 

[chuffinghell]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

……but it's not a good look waving your genitalia around in yet another topic.

That has got to be the winner of the ‘2023 BRM comment of the year award’

 

unfortunately I had a mouth full of tea when I read this, needless to say I had to remove said tea from my laptop screen

[Phil Himsworth]

1 hour ago, railcar1 said:

Anyone tried running it down a gradient?

I have; it didn't go very well, it seemed to go through a cycle of running away a bit, slowing itself down, then repeating this to the bottom.

 

That said, that one was one with a bit of a wobble and I think not perfect quartering or something so I'm not sure much should be read into it. I'll try again when it returns.

[Silver Sidelines]

2 hours ago, railcar1 said:

Anyone tried running it down a gradient?

Yes, I have just put some video clips together at the end of this Post.  Without the sound it looks nearly very good.  I am just waiting for someone to tell me that the stop start motion is because I am running on Analogue DC!  I have a number of other models, probably of the Bachmann variety which exhibit the same if not more obvious stop start behaviour when running down hill.  My simplistic mind would say that it is a drawback of using a worm drive.

 

15xx No. 1504 in the video has been away and come back from Rapido.  It has had its number plate straightened.  It still has its orginal wheel set which I requartered and has been checked and adjusted further,  thank you Dan at Rapido.  I think the video makes it look very good.

 

You cannot have everything and tonight I sorted out my Bachmann Southern Region Dock Tank which has a similar wheel configuration to the 15xx.  The Bachmann model runs rock steady.  However it must be half the weight of the 15xx and when it got to the bottom of my hill and tried to push the five coaches back up, it just sat there with its wheels spinning.  No such issue with the 15xx which could even handle a hill start.  As others have said the heavy weight of the 15xx model accentuates the slightest imperfections in the wheel set (and track).

 

 

[Mallard60022]

13 hours ago, railcar1 said:

Anyone tried running it down a gradient?

I have no Gradients so I can't answer that. 

Can I ask what sort of Gradient you would use? I can't imagine anyone having an actual layout that has anything other than a slight up and or down (e.g. NCB Yard etc.)

P 

[JSpencer]

11 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Yes, I have just put some video clips together at the end of this Post.  Without the sound it looks nearly very good.  I am just waiting for someone to tell me that the stop start motion is because I am running on Analogue DC!  I have a number of other models, probably of the Bachmann variety which exhibit the same if not more obvious stop start behaviour when running down hill.  My simplistic mind would say that it is a drawback of using a worm drive.

 

15xx No. 1504 in the video has been away and come back from Rapido.  It has had its number plate straightened.  It still has its orginal wheel set which I requartered and has been checked and adjusted further,  thank you Dan at Rapido.  I think the video makes it look very good.

 

You cannot have everything and tonight I sorted out my Bachmann Southern Region Dock Tank which has a similar wheel configuration to the 15xx.  The Bachmann model runs rock steady.  However it must be half the weight of the 15xx and when it got to the bottom of my hill and tried to push the five coaches back up, it just sat there with its wheels spinning.  No such issue with the 15xx which could even handle a hill start.  As others have said the heavy weight of the 15xx model accentuates the slightest imperfections in the wheel set (and track).

 

 

 

It is basically the gear being rammed hard against the worm as it comes down the hill and the motor not having enough grunt to overcome it.

DJM austerity's and 14XX were noticeably really bad there with their tiny coreless motors and no flywheels.

 

Lubrication might help on the top gear/worm as maybe further running in. As should lighter loads or a slower loco trailing behind it. 

 

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Without seeing it, it's hard to say for sure, but most of them have a small side-to-side movement owing to the wheelbase etc.

 

JLTRT

[MikeParkin65]

13 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Yes, I have just put some video clips together at the end of this Post.  Without the sound it looks nearly very good.  I am just waiting for someone to tell me that the stop start motion is because I am running on Analogue DC!  I have a number of other models, probably of the Bachmann variety which exhibit the same if not more obvious stop start behaviour when running down hill.  My simplistic mind would say that it is a drawback of using a worm drive.

 

15xx No. 1504 in the video has been away and come back from Rapido.  It has had its number plate straightened.  It still has its orginal wheel set which I requartered and has been checked and adjusted further,  thank you Dan at Rapido.  I think the video makes it look very good.

 

You cannot have everything and tonight I sorted out my Bachmann Southern Region Dock Tank which has a similar wheel configuration to the 15xx.  The Bachmann model runs rock steady.  However it must be half the weight of the 15xx and when it got to the bottom of my hill and tried to push the five coaches back up, it just sat there with its wheels spinning.  No such issue with the 15xx which could even handle a hill start.  As others have said the heavy weight of the 15xx model accentuates the slightest imperfections in the wheel set (and track).

 

 

Thanks for more footage of your lovely layout of which I am quite jealous! It strikes me that the apparent jerkiness downhill is the caused by the stock being 'loose coupled' which of course in real life it wouldnt be. And is the loco running on the DC equivalent of EMF - the electronics  seems to be trying to compensate for both the gradient and the inconsistent movement of the train if you see what I mean.

[DavidH]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I stand by my view that a true 'professional reviewer' would test several of the type before rating the item.

 

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

So called on line 'Influencers' are not for me I'm afraid. I prefer to read stuff on here and in genuine Model Railway journals.

 

Out of interest, how many samples are usually reviewed in the model railway journals?

[AY Mod]

9 minutes ago, DavidH said:

Out of interest, how many samples are usually reviewed in the model railway journals?

 

On a loco we'll normally see one (unless we've bought one for ourselves as well). Most producers will send different liveries or versions to each mag to give variety. On coaches or wagons we may see a couple of diiferent variations or liveries.