So ... the Spaniards are logging those who decline the vaccine

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Cono. (I can't do the proper n).

 

Mike.

 

[Oldddudders]

My cleaner's three children are due to return to France today, having spent Christmas with her ex, their father, in Aberystwyth. In order to be allowed into France, they need a current certificate to show they are Covid-free. Apparently a NHS cert won't do - it is not to be used for this purpose. So yesterday at 17.00 they had 'private' tests at Reading Football Club, and are hoping the results will be through in time for their 10.20 Shuttle. 

 

I offer this as an example of how having the right certificate already affects what you may do. The vaccine certs will similarly become an enabler, and those who deny themselves the opportunity will increasingly find they have cut off their nose to spite their face. 

[TheQ]

A national health number is issued at birth, or if not born in the UK at your first contact with the NHS.

A national insurance number at 15 3/4, or if born abroad at your first application for work or the door, that's your old ID card number as would have been issued in WW2.

There are few without both..

 

Officially no one has general access, however if you think the UK Secret Services don't have access to both  I believe you are mistaken..

 

That aside giving access to airlines etc is a very different question, providing a database that other countries would accept and that we would want to let them have access to, for the purposes of travel, is I think impossible.

For example, a great many of those refusing vaccine, are equally as likely to accept the propaganda of a foreign country, it would be like handing over a list of those likely to spy for them.

[Kris]

I am anticipating that many countries will soon start to require you to have had a vaccination for Covid before you are allowed to enter. 

[spikey]

1 hour ago, durham light infantry said:

Darwin Award Contestant 2021

 

Perhaps we could add the requirement that in addition to the tattoo, they should be obliged to carry a handbell and ring it continuously when in any public place so that the blind might also be able to keep well clear of them

Edited December 30, 2020 by spikey
Clarity

[Graham108]

17 hours ago, John M Upton said:

In theory as the NHS will have a list of who has had the jab, by default, they will also have a defacto list if who hasn't. 

But the list of who hasn't had the jab will be different to a list of who's actively declined.

 

Graham

[jcm@gwr]

 

11 minutes ago, bartram108 said:

But the list of who hasn't had the jab will be different to a list of who's actively declined.

 

Graham

 

But a list of those that have refused* to have it, is more important, and

relevant, than a list of those that haven't had it, yet.

*assuming that they haven't just declined, to allow others to have it before them.

Edited December 30, 2020 by jcm@gwr

[TheQ]

Deleted for some reason it posted again

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by TheQ

[Hibelroad]

Anyone who has ever received medical attention in the UK will have a NHS number and computerised medical records so that covers just about everyone. Those with a NHS number will be invited for vaccination in due course, but it has already been made clear that vaccination will not be compulsory. Some will refuse and all I can say is good luck to them. 

[MarkC]

I suspect that, for seafarers, there will be no option but to have the jab - if one wishes to keep one's job, that is. Otherwise, travelling to/from ships is likely to be very difficult, if not impossible.

 

The same will, I fancy, be true for airline flight & cabin crews.

 

Mark

[kevinlms]

32 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I suspect that, for seafarers, there will be no option but to have the jab - if one wishes to keep one's job, that is. Otherwise, travelling to/from ships is likely to be very difficult, if not impossible.

 

The same will, I fancy, be true for airline flight & cabin crews.

 

Mark

Air crews have also come into strife in Australia. Basically, they were exempt from the isolation rules and in Victoria at least, had to stay in one of a number of dedicated hotels overnight.

However a bus driver who was on a shuttle service exclusively for these air crews, caught Covid-19. Now the number of hotels is limited to 2. There is also further restrictions on isolations and airlines are most unhappy with the new arrangement, threatening to not fly to Melbourne.

Our Premier, Dan Andrews says tough luck, that's the new rules.

[RBAGE]

38 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I suspect that, for seafarers, there will be no option but to have the jab - if one wishes to keep one's job, that is. Otherwise, travelling to/from ships is likely to be very difficult, if not impossible.

 

The same will, I fancy, be true for airline flight & cabin crews.

 

Mark

MC. How are you?

Well, I suppose if you spend your life cruising the seven seas, it's a small price to pay for being on perpetual holiday.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

All the best bonny lad.

[jchinuk]

18 hours ago, 96701 said:

I'm not sure that the NHS will have a list of all UK residents.

 

Quite correct, the NHS only has a list of people registered with GPs, plus those who have had contact with a hospital, for example in A&E.  I used to work in breast screening before I retired, the GP lists are used as the basis for calling ladies in the right age group for their screening appointments.

 

kch

[jchinuk]

50 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

Anyone who has ever received medical attention in the UK will have a NHS number and computerised medical records so that covers just about everyone. Those with a NHS number will be invited for vaccination in due course, but it has already been made clear that vaccination will not be compulsory. Some will refuse and all I can say is good luck to them. 

 

Quite correct, but despite numerous attempts, the NHS' computerised medical records are local (well primary care trust) based and many and varied formats.  The NHS number is generated when you first have contact with the NHS, obviously that's at birth for most of us!

 

jch

Edited December 30, 2020 by jchinuk

[bbishop]

I am on a vaccination priority list, which requires my NHS number.  And I will need to take my number with me - in my case from a prescription.  And I get a certificate.  Bill

[Chrisr40]

3 hours ago, spikey said:

 

Excellent idea, sir.  Shall we have a vote on what the tattoo should say?

The accronym version of Totally Withold All Treatment

[Wheatley]

43 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

MC. How are you?

Well, I suppose if you spend your life cruising the seven seas, it's a small price to pay for being on perpetual holiday.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

All the best bonny lad.

I joined the navy to see the world. 

What did I see ? I saw the sea...

 

Back on the subject of compulsorily tattooing people we perceive to be a threat, apparently middle aged men who keep their own company, pursue solitary hobbies and obsess over detail make up a significant proprtion of serial killers. What do we want our tattoos to say ?

[rocor]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

My cleaner's three children are due to return to France today, having spent Christmas with her ex, their father, in Aberystwyth. In order to be allowed into France, they need a current certificate to show they are Covid-free. Apparently a NHS cert won't do - it is not to be used for this purpose. So yesterday at 17.00 they had 'private' tests at Reading Football Club, and are hoping the results will be through in time for their 10.20 Shuttle. 

 

I offer this as an example of how having the right certificate already affects what you may do. The vaccine certs will similarly become an enabler, and those who deny themselves the opportunity will increasingly find they have cut off their nose to spite their face. 

 

I am not totally convinced that an ability to demonstrate the tactical and technical qualities of ball control, will also show a lack of infection of Covid 19.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Only if they're in this country legally ... illegal immigrants aren't likely to turn up for the jab in case they are grassed up to Immigration.  As that puts the rest of us at risk, it would be helpful if the NHS don't ask any awkward questions and make public announcements to that effect. 

It then depends how the jab is given,  here the GP surgeries did the first lot a couple of weeks back but I think they were given a list so they didn't just do their own patients (there aren't that many over 80s living here compared with the number of vaccinations they did, over 900 on the first day).

 

As far as illegals are concerned the GP surgeries nowadays ask an awful lot of questions of anyone trying to register with them judging by what I saw much earlier this year. when a couple of gentlemen possibly of that kind were trying to register at our surgery.  The reception desk lady was very clearly several jumps ahead of them with the questions she was asking.   Hospital of course is a rather different thing.

 

As to whether or not you think the disease isn't going to touch you - forget it.  My daughter started on a Cobvid ward yesterday after her normal ward was closed down due to the hospital stopping elected orthopaedic surgery.  Patients on that Covid ward range in age from mid 30s up to their 80s and I doubt they are all volunteers to be there. 

[Edwin_m]

Duplicate post please ignore.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by Edwin_m

[Edwin_m]

11 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

How will the airlines know ?  Will I get a certificate?  If I do, can it be forged easily?

I suspect it will have to go on a database eventually.  Rather like you can check the status of any vehicle online, but in this case probably only accessible to airline and border staff.  Insurance could use the same system, or just do what they do now which is not to check anything until someone claims, when it's worthwhile spending time finding a reason not to pay out. 

 

However this sort of system won't work until we have a good figure on how long immunity lasts, which we will probably only know when people who've been vaccinated start testing positive (or if we went for say a year without this happening we could take that as a working assumption).  As such I expect that before very long, anyone testing positive will be asked whether and when they had a vaccine, and which one.  In the meantime any sort of international travel is likely to be very difficult, particularly from a country like the UK where infection rates are a higher proportion of the population than in most others.  

 

There's also the question of what happens to people who are medically unsuitable to be vaccinated.  If this is treated like any other health condition then insurers would increase their premiums considerably.  Probably a bad time to lose the safeguard of the EHIC in return for something that's not really clear yet...

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

A national health number is issued at birth, or if not born in the UK at your first contact with the NHS.

A national insurance number at 15 3/4, or if born abroad at your first application for work or the door, that's your old ID card number as would have been issued in WW2.

There are few without both..

 

Officially no one has general access, however if you think the UK Secret Services don't have access to both  I believe you are mistaken..

 

That aside giving access to airlines etc is a very different question, providing a database that other countries would accept and that we would want to let them have access to, for the purposes of travel, is I think impossible.

For example, a great many of those refusing vaccine, are equally as likely to accept the propaganda of a foreign country, it would be like handing over a list of those likely to spy for them.

In addition - as I recently found out when renewing my Driving Licence online - the DVLA share access to data with the Passport Office.  Hence the DVLA  now have my passport number and used my passport photo off the Passport Office's data bank for my new Driving Licence. 

[The Stationmaster]

25 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

I joined the navy to see the world. 

What did I see ? I saw the sea...

 

Back on the subject of compulsorily tattooing people we perceive to be a threat, apparently middle aged men who keep their own company, pursue solitary hobbies and obsess over detail make up a significant proprtion of serial killers. What do we want our tattoos to say ?

You will be given a choice -  but must have a gauge tattoo and a scale tattoo.  Thus at some model railway exhibitions (if they ever resume) if your gauge tattoo does not accurately match your scale tattoo you will be refused admission.  Warley will of course let in everybody as it costs a lot to put on the show and they need the revenue  

 

16 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

I am not totally convinced that an ability to demonstrate the tactical and technical qualities of ball control, will also show a lack of infection of Covid 19.

Well if they were done at Reading FC's ground they won't have learnt much about anything to do with playing decent football.

[57xx]

1 hour ago, jchinuk said:

Quite correct, but despite numerous attempts, the NHS' computerised medical records are local (well primary care trust) based

 

My records are probably on the dark web after The Great Royal Free Trust Data Breach.

[Oldddudders]

12 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As to whether or not you think the disease isn't going to touch you - forget it.  

As a newly-elected member of the US Congress has found to his cost. Dead at 41. 

 

Plenty of French are against being vaccinated, for various reasons. But one, for which they are protesting publicly, concerns registration. Since carrying an ID card is compulsory, and much of the population thinks the Gestapo never left in 1944, I can't see much difference......