RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 17, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hroth said: Perhaps a 10 second penalty, and a severe warning that it would be increased by 5 seconds each time they complain about it. Works well with Primary school pupils, I am told..... Yes, but primary skool pupils tend to learn, whereas...... 3 1 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, Hroth said: Perhaps a 10 second penalty, and a severe warning that it would be increased by 5 seconds each time they complain about it. Works well with Primary school pupils, I am told..... Just get tantrums as a result, oh hang on. 2 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted November 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2021 Not only potential time penalty, what about penalty points? Is MV getting close to 12 and the automatic race ban? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, mudmagnet said: Not only potential time penalty, what about penalty points? Is MV getting close to 12 and the automatic race ban? Nah, he's only got 2 from Italy when he parked his car on top of Lewis 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, RedgateModels said: Nah, he's only got 2 from Italy when he parked his car on top of Lewis Most points seem to be picked up from non-driving offences: not reacting immediately to flags, speeding in the pit lane, a practise start on the wrong part of the track etc. These are often for incidents in practise which many of us do not get to see. Few are accrued for causing or potentially causing a collision during the race. Earlier in the season, Norris had more than anybody. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Red Bull and Mercedes summoned to FIA hearing on review of Sao Paulo incident. https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/17/fia-to-hold-hearing-on-review-of-hamilton-verstappen-incident-tomorrow/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2021 I think the stewards are in an invidious Position now. Having not penalised Max at the time I think (as much as I dislike him) that CH’s undoubted cries of “he’d have pushed harder had he known” would be valid. i don’t think that docking points is right, there’s no precedent for that. A grid penalty for the next race maybe, but even that feels harder to justify. I think they have to say (primarily to Max) that they’re watching bloody closely and any transgressions will be dealt with. Ultimately I assume no one wants the stewards to decide the world champion. But then I’d rather not watch MV blithely add 10m to the race track either! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) The stewards put themselves in that position, though, if they didn't have the onboard footage they shouldn't have made the decision until they had it, doing what they did they were asking for trouble. If it's felt that he did do something wrong then the only correct decision is some sort of penalty. Like you I'm wary about deducting points, though again if it was deemed an illegal move them they have to send out a strong message to Max that it's not acceptable and a simple telling off will not work with him, that's for sure, especially as no doubt Mr H will be crying foul! He just seems oblivious to any penalty, taking it as something just to shrugged off and ignored, his comment about the black and white flag (for weaving) shows clearly his attitude towards authority and other drivers, I'm not sure how you get through to someone like that that their behaviour is unacceptable? Edited November 18, 2021 by Hobby 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The combination of top cars and top two drivers renders grid penalties largely ineffective - except between themselves. Taking nothing away from his performance last weekend, Lewis overcame two substantial penalties (DQ to back, then 5 places for engine change) to win the race. Earlier in the season, Max came from last on the grid to finish second (though weather and tyre strategy played into his hands). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 It sure does spice up the Championship and although I'm a Lewis fan mainly because he's British he does conduct himself in the manner befitting a 7 times world champion. I don't know if anyone else picked up the uneasy body language displayed by RB's Adrian Newey during the winners podium event, the TV camera's at one point zoomed in on him and I thought at the time he looked very 'uneasy' so one does wonder as to whether all is well within the RB camp. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didcot Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Adrian Newey comes across as a descent chap. His biography is eye opening. He has been missing from the Prat Perch I mean Pit Wall this year. One wonders if as mentioned above all is well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 F1 drivers told five corners are being policed for track limits at Losail. https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/18/f1-drivers-told-five-corners-are-being-policed-for-track-limits-at-losail/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Arrogance. Max Verstappen: I'd pull same move on Lewis Hamilton again https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32660203/max-verstappen-pull-same-move-lewis-hamilton-again 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2021 7 hours ago, njee20 said: I think the stewards are in an invidious Position now. Having not penalised Max at the time I think (as much as I dislike him) that CH’s undoubted cries of “he’d have pushed harder had he known” would be valid. i don’t think that docking points is right, there’s no precedent for that. A grid penalty for the next race maybe, but even that feels harder to justify. I think they have to say (primarily to Max) that they’re watching bloody closely and any transgressions will be dealt with. Ultimately I assume no one wants the stewards to decide the world champion. But then I’d rather not watch MV blithely add 10m to the race track either! But would VB have also pushed harder to keep within the time penalty if one had been applied at the time? Would LH have even tried to pass Max knowing there was a penalty? And if he did pass, would LH have "backed up" Max to ensure VB caught up? Nobody will ever know. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, newbryford said: But would VB have also pushed harder to keep within the time penalty if one had been applied at the time? Would LH have even tried to pass Max knowing there was a penalty? And if he did pass, would LH have "backed up" Max to ensure VB caught up? Nobody will ever know. How many agrees can I give? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Arrogance. Max Verstappen: I'd pull same move on Lewis Hamilton again https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32660203/max-verstappen-pull-same-move-lewis-hamilton-again Perhaps someone ought to take Mr Verstappen aside and speak to him about Hubris and Nemesis? If that doesn't help, dock a healthy 20 points from his account at the start of the next race. And a similar amount to RB in the constructors championship. It'd be completely worth it to watch Horner and Verstappen foam at the mouth in indignation! Yeah, I know it would never happen! But one can fantasise... 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hroth said: Perhaps someone ought to take Mr Verstappen aside and speak to him about Hubris and Nemesis? Which team do they drive for? Or are they Red Bull’s PR consultants. Cheers Darius Edited November 18, 2021 by Darius43 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, newbryford said: But would VB have also pushed harder to keep within the time penalty if one had been applied at the time? Would LH have even tried to pass Max knowing there was a penalty? And if he did pass, would LH have "backed up" Max to ensure VB caught up? Nobody will ever know. All of which is my point. It’s really hard to do something retroactively because of all of that. That is a situation of their own making of course, but it’s a messy case, and I really hope this season isn’t defined by the stewards. It feels like it’s probably going to be defined by Lewis knocking his ‘magic’ switch in Baku instead! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Andrew P said: Red Bull and Mercedes summoned to FIA hearing on review of Sao Paulo incident. https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/17/fia-to-hold-hearing-on-review-of-hamilton-verstappen-incident-tomorrow/ Some quite amusing comments below that with someone claiming Lewis wasn't penalised at Silverstone because he went on to win, and replies that if you get awarded a penalty in a football match, you don't get another one just because the goalie saved it.... :-) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 According to an article I read somewhere Max stated that he was not coasting after Lewis passed him, his tyres were shot and could go no faster. In this light even if he'd had a 5 second time penalty VB would have got within it to take 2nd place 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, njee20 said: It feels like it’s probably going to be defined by Lewis knocking his ‘magic’ switch in Baku instead! I said at the time he would regret that 18 points lost ... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, RedgateModels said: I said at the time he would regret that 18 points lost ... But it balanced out the random puncture that Max had so RB can’t use that as an excuse of why they lost Its certainly put the fire in Lewis and we are seeing him pull out all the stops, if he makes it he’ll have shown those that said it was all the car (even though they’ll never accept it ) Edited November 18, 2021 by PaulRhB 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 8 hours ago, Hobby said: I'm not sure how you get through to someone like that that their behaviour is unacceptable? 2 hours ago, Andrew P said: Arrogance. Max Verstappen: I'd pull same move on Lewis Hamilton again https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32660203/max-verstappen-pull-same-move-lewis-hamilton-again It appears you don't. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted November 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2021 The whole issue with stewards making decisions on racing incidents or near misses or crashes is purely subjective as it is humans making decisions. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees is largely irrelevant. Whereas, specific dimensional discrepancies, such as LH wing or cars exceeding track limits etc is quantifiable and therefore relatively simple to measure / penalise. There are some more incidents where the stewards have given penalties or not as down to racing incidents, they do have a very unenviable job at times. Not helped by the team managers, some worse than others, emailing or otherwise said stewards. That said, they do need to appear to follow and enforce the regulations consistently from one race to the next or indeed within one race. My issue is that at times, some drivers are more heavily penalised than others and others are 'allowed' to get away with much more. It is the inconsistencies that lead to lack of confidence in the stewards. The 'incident / near-miss' with MV / LH is a case in point - would they have viewed differently if was two other drivers? Have they reached a point now in the championship knowing that any decision will significantly affect the result? LH DQ was simple - the wing was not to regulation, hence the penalty. A 'racing' incident not so easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Stewards to announce decision on Verstappen-Hamilton ‘Right of Review’ request on Friday. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.stewards-to-announce-decision-on-verstappen-hamilton-right-of-review-request.5Ikdh8jcV2S2NIA47QH5Hb.html?fbclid=IwAR1jI7fRqCVp9OYaRK2aRgS_rlphbrbZGuG-lBmsVn3ot9p3AeuWWmkAEjA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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