Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[Cofga]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Assuming you are talking about the superheater/lubricator pipe cover, all Manors had them (on the right-hand side) from initial build. Many locos also later acquired covers on the left-hand side.

 

Prism—Ah, I was looking at the right hand side of Anthony Manor which did not have it at the time Accurascale modeled. However flipping the model to the left hand side photo it does have it.  Thanks for the info.

 

I do love the 1950 version of “The importance of being Earnest”. 

[7007GreatWestern]

1 hour ago, Cofga said:

Among the external mods were a narrowing of the chimney and an oil pipe added on the side of the smokebox

This is just a recap on what that cover straddling the forward part of the boiler and the rear part of the smokebox actually does. It actually contains three pipes that run from a device in the cab called the "Sight Feed" or "Hydrostatic" Lubricator. It was the responsibility of the Driver to manage the oil flow from the Hydrostatic Lubricator and since the Driver always stood on the right hand side on GWR locos the Lubricator was positioned on the right hand side of the cab so the  pipe runs and cover were also on the right hand side of the loco. Once the pipes leave the cab they immediately run in the space under the boiler cladding but outside the boiler barrel which is normally filled with insulation. They are therefore invisible. The problem comes when the pipe reaches the forward part of the boiler. There is a thick strengthening flange formed at the end of the boiler and the smokebox is riveted directly onto that flange. The pipes therefore have to emerge from underneath the cladding to 'hop' over the flange before going back down again, this time to enter the smokebox. Once inside the smokebox one of the pipes runs to regulator valve.  The other two pipes feed the left and right steam chests (and of course the piston valves they contain). The covers are really doing nothing but hiding from view there rather ugly pipes that would detract from the elegance of the locomotive. The pipes however are performing absolutely critical functions for the operation of there locomotive.  Some years ago contributors on here referred to the cover as a 'Superheater Cover' but from the above explanation I hope it's obvious that name is completely incorrect. It's a 'lubrication pipe cover'.

[Miss Prism]

Thanks, and sorry for the brain f@rt - all bar one of the descriptions on gwr.org.uk were correct, and I've now rectified the one that mentioned 'superheater'. I understand one of the pipes being covered is the blower (at least on panniers), so the full description is 'lubricator and blower pipe cover'.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Cofga said:

I have a question about external changes to the Manors. It was my understanding that during the early 1950s BR made modifications to improve steaming and operation of the Manors. Among the external mods were a narrowing of the chimney and an oil pipe added on the side of the smokebox. I also thought that the bulge or pipe (sorry but don’t know the technical term) from the upper side of the smokebox back onto the boiler was done at that time. However I just noticed that the locos with the “GWR” lettering on the tender (Accurascale’s nos. 7818 & 7819 ) also have this bulge and that livery style was limited to pre-nationalisation. So just when did GWR make that modification? Thanks—Larry

The oil pipe cover (Miss P to note that it has nothing to do with the superheater - that's a modellers' legend going back many years) situation changed over the years.  As built the 78XX came with a three glass sight feed lubricator and an oil pipe cover on only the Driver's side of the boiler/smokebox.  

 

The engines were later modified to have an additional sight feed glass - giving four in total - and a second oil pipe cover was added on the Fireman's side.  This change was definitely post war and might well have accompanied the re-draughting.  To know exactly when it was done for individiiual engines you need a correctly dated photo of the Fireman's side (left hand side) of the engine.  The right hand side was consistent throughout the lives of the engines.

 

Note also that there appear to have been very minor changes to the size of the right hand cover over the lives of the engines.   The link with superheating applies really to the 'Kings' and 'Castles' following the adoption of higher temperature superheat when the covers became larger to accommodate additional oil pipes.  The superheater header is 100% within the smokebox although it contributed in Churchward's time to the increase in the length of the smokebox as boilers were fitted with superheaters (and possibly when the size of the superheater changed?).

 

PS As I mentioned some time back in this thread a minor detail difference in the cab is that the designer, very sensibly, drew up only  one size of sight feed lubricator.   But unless they know the history of the engines or have read my posts in this thread the vast majority of 'Manor' purchasers and reviewers won't have the slightest idea that some models will have a miniscule error in the cab (assuming they recognise the sight feed lubricator in the first place)

[IOW O2]

Just a couple of pics now Torquay is weathered, crew fitted, real coal added, and a mist of matt varnish. The front coupling was put on the hook I had no difficulty.  I managed move tender T/L coupling back so the front bar is @ 1.5mm behind buffers front.  There was a little room to cut back the coupling pocket after all, and then trim the T/L back. I decided on Pem Coast express to be different.

 

One area I think could be improved in future is the tender to loco kinematic action it could do with extending further like coaches do, if put in the closest coupling drawbar hole then it could really stay close on 4th and under radii.  One cab handrail was out of place and like AY Mod did just prise up gently, I touched in a bit of paint at roof line to hold in place.

 

It is also working fine now on the GM non inertia controller at slow speed, this is after about 18 hours use now, I have never needed this amount of time for a model to bed in, my other locos have been fine from the off really, so if others have somewhere they can leave it to run unattended for an hour at time and then reverse it, this may solve their issues.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by IOW O2
more info

[Cofga]

5 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Just a couple of pics now Torquay is weathered, crew fitted, real coal added, and a mist of matt varnish. The front coupling was put on the hook I had no difficulty.  I managed move tender T/L coupling back so the front bar is @ 1.5mm behind buffers front.  There was a little room to cut back the coupling pocket after all, and then trim the T/L back. I decided on Pem Coast express to be different.

 

One area I think could be improved in future is the tender to loco kinematic action it could do with extending further like coaches do, if put in the closest coupling drawbar hole then it could really stay close on 4th and under radii.  One cab handrail was out of place and like AY Mod did just prise up gently, I touched in a bit of paint at roof line to hold in place.

 

It is also working fine now on the GM non inertia controller at slow speed, this is after about 18 hours use now, I have never needed this amount of time for a model to bed in, my other locos have been fine from the off really, so if others have somewhere they can leave it to run unattended for an hour at time and then reverse it, this may solve their issues.

 

Beautiful job on the coal load. One thing I’ve always wondered why is there a blop of grease on the face of the buffers?  Did they lubricate them for some reason? 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Cofga

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, Cofga said:

One thing I’ve always wondered why is there a blop of grease on the face of the buffers?  Did they lubricate them for some reason? 

The railway is a dirty, greasy place, the old steam powered railway especially so.

Dirt and grease seems to accumulate on buffer heads.

I suppose it's possible that on tight curves some freight stock may have had greased buffers, to help get round the curve...

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Captain Kernow said:

The railway is a dirty, greasy place, the old steam powered railway especially so.

Dirt and grease seems to accumulate on buffer heads.

I suppose it's possible that on tight curves some freight stock may have had greased buffers, to help get round the curve...

 

Loco buffers tended to have grease applied now and again - to reduce friction.

 

CJI.

[Cofga]

Thanks, makes sense that greased buffers would slide easier on curves, especially where screw links are employed— Larry

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

9 hours ago, Cofga said:

 Did they lubricate them for some reason? 

As its still done today on the buffers i guess it helps when they are in contact,i guess Mike @The Stationmaster is the man for a definitive answer.

[melmerby]

Before buckeyes on coaching stock in the UK, the buffers would always be in contact and the heads would move around respective to each other, as the train travelled along.

There would've been graunching and grinding without a dob of grease.

Probably less important for loose coupled wagons as they were normally only in contact when braking or shunting.

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

As its still done today on the buffers i guess it helps when they are in contact,i guess Mike @The Stationmaster is the man for a definitive answer.

Already answered I think but a noticeable feature on the Cambrian line 'Manors' is the one reproduced by 'IOW 02' where there was a arch of grease at the centre of the bullediup (latterly I think more likely white painted) buffer heads.

 

You can see a similar pattern on preserved 7029 in the photo below (complete with a somewhat grubby view of me leaning out of the cab for the benefit of my friend Tom Clift who took the photo).

 

[Ian Hargrave]

And the practice of bulling up the buffer heads commenced with Roy White at Landore with their Castles when he took charge.in the late 1950’s.

[MikeParkin65]

Sharing for info  and pretty sure this has been mentioned previously upthread but for anyone using NCE Power Cab with the 5amp booster changing the voltage on the power supply from 12v (which seems to be how it is supplied) to 13.8v via the slider in the power supply brings the Manors 'Stay Alive' into, well, life! No other CV changes required. 

[geoffers]

22 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Sharing for info  and pretty sure this has been mentioned previously upthread but for anyone using NCE Power Cab with the 5amp booster changing the voltage on the power supply from 12v (which seems to be how it is supplied) to 13.8v via the slider in the power supply brings the Manors 'Stay Alive' into, well, life! No other CV changes required. 

Good to know, Mike. Thanks. My NCE PowerCab uses a DCC Concepts Alpha Power which delivers 18 volts and up to  5 amps. Stay-alive on 7812 "Erlestoke Manor" works fine. For some reason but not so on 7800 "Torquay Manor" but having fiddled with reboots and CVs it is still not functional so have given up now as everything else works on this loco fitted with a Zimo MN180 Next18 decoder.

[trevor7598]

Like in that video review my Torquay Manor won't crawl at an almost imperceptible slow speed,

so I can only give a score of 99.99 out of a 100.  What a magnificent  model.

[IOW O2]

On 16/09/2023 at 17:51, Cofga said:

Beautiful job on the coal load. One thing I’ve always wondered why is there a blob of grease on the face of the buffers?  Did they lubricate them for some reason? 

Thanks, I'll do a more overhead shot tomorrow.  It was from a real lump of coal smashed up in a plastic bag in with a club hammer into various sizes in 1991!!!!!  Put in a coffee jar and still smells of coal, soon wears off though 🙁, there's about an inch left now.

Edited September 17, 2023 by IOW O2
emoji

[Cofga]

5 hours ago, geoffers said:

Good to know, Mike. Thanks. My NCE PowerCab uses a DCC Concepts Alpha Power which delivers 18 volts and up to  5 amps. Stay-alive on 7812 "Erlestoke Manor" works fine. For some reason but not so on 7800 "Torquay Manor" but having fiddled with reboots and CVs it is still not functional so have given up now as everything else works on this loco fitted with a Zimo MN180 Next18 decoder.

I believe that Zimo decoders use 2 wire stay alives whereas ESU/LokSound decoders use 3 wire stay alives. Given that the circuit board in the Manors is designed to be used with a LokSound decoder I doubt they will function with decoders that use 2 wires. As far as I know only DCC Concepts and Lenz also use the 3 wire stay alive. The white wire in the circuit is used to turn the ESU stay alive on and off—Larry “The DCC Guy”

Edited September 17, 2023 by Cofga

[Cofga]

5 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Sharing for info  and pretty sure this has been mentioned previously upthread but for anyone using NCE Power Cab with the 5amp booster changing the voltage on the power supply from 12v (which seems to be how it is supplied) to 13.8v via the slider in the power supply brings the Manors 'Stay Alive' into, well, life! No other CV changes required. 

Yes, I mentioned this in a post last Thursday and McC from Accurascale replied that he believes ESU says they require 14 volts to function properly, although 13.8 volts appears to be sufficient. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Cofga

[MikeParkin65]

19 minutes ago, Cofga said:

Yes, I mentioned this in a post last Thursday and McC from Accurascale replied that he believes ESU says they require 14 volts to function properly, although 13.8 volts appears to be sufficient. 

Thanks - thought I'd read it somewhere :)

[geoffers]

3 hours ago, Cofga said:

I believe that Zimo decoders use 2 wire stay alives whereas ESU/LokSound decoders use 3 wire stay alives. Given that the circuit board in the Manors is designed to be used with a LokSound decoder I doubt they will function with decoders that use 2 wires. As far as I know only DCC Concepts and Lenz also use the 3 wire stay alive. The white wire in the circuit is used to turn the ESU stay alive on and off—Larry “The DCC Guy”

Ah! - that is interesting. Think I shall get an ESU LokPilot Next18 decoder to try out. Thanks so much for the tip.

Edited September 17, 2023 by geoffers
spelling

[stewartingram]

Anyone got any suggstions for fixing the CCE headboard in place?

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Anyone got any suggstions for fixing the CCE headboard in place?

Tacky Wax?

[stewartingram]

I bought some of that the other day, never used it yet. How secure is it, as I shan't need to remove the headboard.

Edited September 18, 2023 by stewartingram

[B15nac]

Has anyone had issues with the tender pick ups not in contact with the wheels? Both mine have this issue. 

 

Kind regards Neil