Bachmann Spring 2021 - New tooling Class 20/0

[Roy Langridge]

Perhaps because the first batch didn’t sell overly well with at least two versions being sold off cheap?
 

I was really suprised at how badly they seem to have sold, although the choice or liveries and half-baked lighting may have been a factor. 

 

Roy

[meatloaf]

5 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Perhaps because the first batch didn’t sell overly well with at least two versions being sold off cheap?
 

I was really suprised at how badly they seem to have sold, although the choice or liveries and half-baked lighting may have been a factor. 

 

Roy

Probably the same as the new 24s theyve been heavily reduced in some places. The NSE 121 as well come to think of it. 

 

The 47s ive seen pretty cheap as well lately even the newer release ones such as lady di. 

[Roy Langridge]

6 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Probably the same as the new 24s theyve been heavily reduced in some places. The NSE 121 as well come to think of it. 

 

The 47s ive seen pretty cheap as well lately even the newer release ones such as lady di. 

Perhaps we have now reached a level that for a significant number of people the price is beyond what they can afford with only a small (or smaller than was the case) number being able to pay RRP - 15% at release?

 

I note Heljan are making a point of how small their runs are now, perhaps they are trying to avoid their models being sold off cheaply?

 

Roy

Edited February 4, 2023 by Roy Langridge
Grammar

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Perhaps we have now reached a level that for a significant number of people the price is beyond what they can afford with only a small (or smaller than was the case) number being able to pay RRP - 15% at release?

 

I note Heljan are making a point of how small their runs are now, perhaps they are trying to avoid their models being sold off cheaply?

 

Roy

Plus i’d guess many are happy with their previous iteration and figured the cost / benefit ratio of the upgrade wasnt worth it.

 

I do think tooling duplication is a risky business, more risky than going for something considered either premium or niche due to price or demand, but hithero not previously made.

 

 

[rob D2]

I’ve just brought the blue one for £124.

slighly overlooked the fact the plux22 decoder is £38 !

[meatloaf]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I’ve just brought the blue one for £124.

slighly overlooked the fact the plux22 decoder is £38 !

where did you get it from?

 

I ended up getting the RF Grey one from kernow sound fitted for £194.

 

I wouldve got the £99 NSE 121 but its not cheap anymore when the decoders alomst £40

[Markwj]

41 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

where did you get it from?

 

I ended up getting the RF Grey one from kernow sound fitted for £194.

 

I wouldve got the £99 NSE 121 but its not cheap anymore when the decoders alomst £40

But you can get a plux 22 decoder for £18 if you are not that fussy on brand

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/870016-kungfu-plux22.html

[rob D2]

53 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

where did you get it from?

 

I ended up getting the RF Grey one from kernow sound fitted for £194.

 

I wouldve got the £99 NSE 121 but its not cheap anymore when the decoders alomst £40

Monk bar model shop

[rob D2]

11 minutes ago, Markwj said:

But you can get a plux 22 decoder for £18 if you are not that fussy on brand

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/870016-kungfu-plux22.html

Might be worth a look, but the cheap decoders I have brought have been a false economy 

[Markwj]

2 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Might be worth a look, but the cheap decoders I have brought have been a false economy 

To be fair I have had no issue but then I just bung them in and run it I don’t routinely change cv’s etc so for finer control they may not be great.

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, Markwj said:

But you can get a plux 22 decoder for £18 if you are not that fussy on brand

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/870016-kungfu-plux22.html

if you want to save a bit more and dont mind waiting a few weeks, especially if its in bulk and saving postage.. (tax is also inc).

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32925083305.html

Edited February 5, 2023 by adb968008

[rob D2]

What are wires on it for ? that's confusing me 

[Roy Langridge]

Just now, rob D2 said:

What are wires on it for ? that's confusing me 

Probably for connecting a stay-alive. 
 

Roy

[rob D2]

never seen that feature before - probably as all my decoders have sat around for years in other locos 

[No Decorum]

19 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Plus i’d guess many are happy with their previous iteration and figured the cost / benefit ratio of the upgrade wasnt worth it.

 

I do think tooling duplication is a risky business, more risky than going for something considered either premium or niche due to price or demand, but hithero not previously made.

 

 

I’d like to agree that duplication is risky but they do seem to sell well. Some complain about prices but it was the most expensive versions of Bachmann’s 37s and 47s which sold out first. (Granted that Bachmann produced them in small numbers, being unsure if people would pay the premium.)

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I’d like to agree that duplication is risky but they do seem to sell well. Some complain about prices but it was the most expensive versions of Bachmann’s 37s and 47s which sold out first. (Granted that Bachmann produced them in small numbers, being unsure if people would pay the premium.)

I think what you describe there supports the view I expressed above. I believe there are now a relatively small number of people buying the most expensive models.

 

The first (small) run of Class 47 SFX models sold out, a bigger second run was released and none of the models, SFX included, seem to have sold well and are now being discounted. 
 

The new Bachmann 47 is a cracking model. I have two and will shortly get a third, but that will be my limit for a while. 
 

Roy

[rob D2]

Interesting.

I’m not sure how many SFX they made, but my theory is the fairly well off were well off enough to to not be too price conscious with something they really want.

 

It seems apparent that the market struggles to support these prices generally, by the subsequent reductions on both 37 and 47 , with even the latest 37s coming down.

 

Everyone has a glass ceiling in terms of what they can afford , but also what they perceive as value for money. For me I’d struggle to justify more than £150 a loco, I could afford more , but there are other spending priorities

 

 

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Interesting.

I’m not sure how many SFX they made, but my theory is the fairly well off were well off enough to to not be too price conscious with something they really want.

 

It seems apparent that the market struggles to support these prices generally, by the subsequent reductions on both 37 and 47 , with even the latest 37s coming down.

 

Everyone has a glass ceiling in terms of what they can afford , but also what they perceive as value for money. For me I’d struggle to justify more than £150 a loco, I could afford more , but there are other spending priorities

 

 

At a higher level, and avoiding politics, but I think thats how the wider economy is going to pan out this year, and what a shallow recession means….

 

At a generalisation, The trade is well stocked up with higher priced stuff from 2022, that consumers are resisting to buy at the higher price, and is costing trade more to store.

 

Over the summer we may see more reductions of remaining 2022 goods, and less new orders of new stuff in 2023 whilst the demand rebalances, creating a softened production demand, whilst the public soaks up the 2022 excess, and retailers weigh the balance of cashing out vs further warehousing cost.

 

Obviously this could mean 2024 isnt a growth year, but a sizing year matching demand to 2023 sales at the price realised in 2023 and thus locking in those inflationary gains but not neccessarily price rising further, assuming no other global shocks come to rock us.

 

 

[rob D2]

I wouldn't like to be trying to sell this stuff .

If i was retired on either a state pension or a started too late private , I think what disposable i had would go on other stuff if i had anything left - certainly couldn't " re- enter " at that point unless i sell the house and downsize 

 

Anyway , i'll worry about that in 15 years 

[GordonC]

I'm a bit surprised we haven't had at least a pair of BR Blue and Railfreight Red Stripe in a mix of headcode and disc variants, but then I'm not convinced the initial releases sold all that well so either they produced too big a batch or the examples chosen were a bit niche.

 

I liked the 20227 model, but it doesn't offer too many options for numbering. The BR Blue one would have been an early one with the BR logo on the cabsides wouldn't it? Not completely out of the realms of renumbering and moving the logo, but also not one to snap up when there are plenty of other models around that dont need that and I'd expect a later Blue one at some point

[SouthernBlue80s]

8 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Interesting.

I’m not sure how many SFX they made, but my theory is the fairly well off were well off enough to to not be too price conscious with something they really want.

 

It seems apparent that the market struggles to support these prices generally, by the subsequent reductions on both 37 and 47 , with even the latest 37s coming down.

 

Everyone has a glass ceiling in terms of what they can afford , but also what they perceive as value for money. For me I’d struggle to justify more than £150 a loco, I could afford more , but there are other spending priorities

 

 

 

Agree. 150 is my price limit too

Edited February 5, 2023 by SouthernBlue80s

[No Decorum]

On 04/02/2023 at 06:15, Roy Langridge said:

Perhaps because the first batch didn’t sell overly well with at least two versions being sold off cheap?
 

I was really suprised at how badly they seem to have sold, although the choice or liveries and half-baked lighting may have been a factor. 

 

Roy

The lighting was certainly a factor for me. I have a pair of the previous tooling which I run nose to nose. Both have sound but no lights. I thought that I might replace the leading one with the new version with lights but decided against it purely because of the “half-baked” lighting. High prices force me to chose. Dangle something irresistible in front of me (a Gresley K1, K2 or K4 for example) and I’ll bite, so long as the model is good. In the case of gas turbines, I have bitten. However, I look for factors to eliminate some models in order to buy others. The 20 was a case in point.

[Waverley West]

15 hours ago, GordonC said:

I liked the 20227 model, but it doesn't offer too many options for numbering. 

 

Ditto, but as far as I know 20227 was the only headcode-fitted Railfreight-liveried 20 to be fitted with a high-intensity headlight in BR days, making it unique and meaning that surgery is required to renumber it authentically. That makes it a very strange choice to me, given that so many other Railfreight-liveried alternatives without a headlight were available.

 

Unless anyone knows different?

 

I upgraded to the new version after selling off my old Bachmann 20s and don't regret it at all, as they are lovely models especially when fitted with Legomanbiffo sound, but I was hoping Bachmann would have produced a disc-fitted Railfreight version and a headcode-fitted BR Blue version by now.

[GordonC]

7 minutes ago, Waverley West said:

 

Ditto, but as far as I know 20227 was the only headcode-fitted Railfreight-liveried 20 to be fitted with a high-intensity headlight in BR days, making it unique and meaning that surgery is required to renumber it authentically. That makes it a very strange choice to me, given that so many other Railfreight-liveried alternatives without a headlight were available.

 

Unless anyone knows different?

 

I upgraded to the new version after selling off my old Bachmann 20s and don't regret it at all, as they are lovely models especially when fitted with Legomanbiffo sound, but I was hoping Bachmann would have produced a disc-fitted Railfreight version and a headcode-fitted BR Blue version by now.

 

I hadn't actually realised it was as unique as that! I bought a second one when they were in the bargain bin then struggled to find an obvious renumbering candidate so was intending respraying BR Blue to another headlight fitted example. I'd suspect it was probably chosen with the prototype still running around the main line network in essentially the same livery with just the electrification flashes needing changed.

 

More recent than BR Days, but ...

 

[Waverley West]

3 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I hadn't actually realised it was as unique as that! I bought a second one when they were in the bargain bin then struggled to find an obvious renumbering candidate so was intending respraying BR Blue to another headlight fitted example. I'd suspect it was probably chosen with the prototype still running around the main line network in essentially the same livery with just the electrification flashes needing changed.

 

 

Yes, I must admit I have so far chickened out on the idea of surgery and opted to do 20132 as my second Railfreight 20 (as per your photo, but with BR era electrification flashes), even though it didn't run in that form/livery in BR days. I did look high and low for an alternative number but drew a complete blank. I'd already bought it by then and couldn't believe it was unique. I think only around 20 Class 20s were painted in Railfreight livery, many of which were disc-fitted as well, narrowing the possibilities down further. I would have much preferred a non-headlight version. 

 

Maybe one day I'll get round to removing the headlight or sell the loco on. In the meantime, I have it running as the train loco in a pair, to hide the issue a little...