Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[3rd Rail Exile]

18 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Perhaps  it is time to simply avoid [or , ignore?] those places where the couldn't-care-less's tend to congregate or inhabit?

Unfortunately, the "couldn't-care-less's" congregate in places many of us would like to return to.  I've had more than enough of being a hermit over the past 18 months, so for me it's a case of assessing and minimising the risks (such as picking my time carefully if possible) rather than complete avoidance... 

[boxbrownie]

The chap standing in the last picture seems to be a really caring sort, I am surprised he obviously just forgot on this particular journey! 

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

The chap standing in the last picture seems to be a really caring sort, I am surprised he obviously just forgot on this particular journey! 

He certainly doesn't appear to be an arch capitalist pig. And is it me, or is the female population of those pics, while being in the minority, almost entirely masked? 

[EddieB]

After several months of avoiding the London Underground, a return to travelling in the quieter times tended to find most people wearing masks (roughly about a third properly, another third un-nosed and the rest non-compliant).  However on a fairly late return during the week on a busy Hammersmith & City service, I found very few had masks - which I put down to a large proportion in the twenties and thirties age groups.

 

Even more so this morning. On a packed Central Line train (6:30 am), I would be surprised if any more than one in ten were masked.  Other lines/services were similar.

 

No Ian, there was no discernible difference between genders.

 

Mandatory?  To the Mayor of London and TfL, it appears that your rules are there to be ignored by a majority of the travelling public.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

The chap standing in the last picture seems to be a really caring sort, I am surprised he obviously just forgot on this particular journey! 

 

Probably wondering why the Londoners are still wearing masks....

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[APOLLO]

News today

 

Jabbed adults infected with Delta ‘can match virus levels of unvaccinated’

Researchers say implications for transmission remain unclear but reaching herd immunity even more challenging

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/jabbed-adults-infected-with-delta-can-match-virus-levels-of-unvaccinated

 

Brit15

[boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

News today

 

Jabbed adults infected with Delta ‘can match virus levels of unvaccinated’

Researchers say implications for transmission remain unclear but reaching herd immunity even more challenging

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/jabbed-adults-infected-with-delta-can-match-virus-levels-of-unvaccinated

 

Brit15

My understanding from the beginning of the research and vaccination into Covid was that it would only ensure a reduction in the severity of the disease if caught, nothing about it reducing the amount of transmissibility from a vaccinated person who had caught it.

This report just seems to reinforce that theory rather than raise new issues.

[AY Mod]

This week;'s Zoe update is worth watching and better illustrates what we should be concerned about over the next few weeks and months.

 

 

Particularly the rise in cases/hospitalisations/deaths in Israel attributed to their early vaccination and short interval between jabs 1 and 2 and the duration since the second vaccinations (I understand about 20% of the adult population are into the booster cycle now) and the evidence on waning protection over time in the UK with both AZ and Pfizer vaccinations.

 

 

With schools returning soon and more transport traffic we would benefit from clear messaging about risks and trends from the government (and a clear update on Delta symptoms which is long overdue) rather than the display of filling the government benches without heed to government guidance and Palace of Westminster requirements. The trends show we're sleepwalking towards another bumpy ride.

 

 

[melmerby]

On 14/08/2021 at 13:51, EddieB said:

After several months of avoiding the London Underground, a return to travelling in the quieter times tended to find most people wearing masks (roughly about a third properly, another third un-nosed and the rest non-compliant).  However on a fairly late return during the week on a busy Hammersmith & City service, I found very few had masks - which I put down to a large proportion in the twenties and thirties age groups.

 

Even more so this morning. On a packed Central Line train (6:30 am), I would be surprised if any more than one in ten were masked.  Other lines/services were similar.

 

No Ian, there was no discernible difference between genders.

 

Mandatory?  To the Mayor of London and TfL, it appears that your rules are there to be ignored by a majority of the travelling public.

 

 

About time those Londoners did what other areas are.

Here in Worcestershire, the overwhelming number of travellers on buses are wearing masks as are supermarket shoppers etc.

Again the majority of non masked people were at the lower end of the age scale, but were still a minority overall.

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

About time those Londoners did what other areas are.

Here in Worcestershire, the overwhelming number of travellers on buses are wearing masks as are supermarket shoppers etc.

Again the majority of non masked people were at the lower end of the age scale, but were still a minority overall.

Had to take the i3 in for an MoT yesterday, all went well naturally  ……but it was the main dealer and we waited inside drinking expensive coffee and biscuits (wrapped) but point is not one single person in the dealership, and there were many were not wearing masks sales people wandering around the showroom unmasked, staff at the service area were at least behind screens but we sat there masked up (between coffees) and feeling a bit daft, but ultimately feeling we were doing the right thing.

 

Just to add virtually every member of staff looked under 40, and most a lot younger.

[woodenhead]

21 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Had to take the i3 in for an MoT yesterday, all went well naturally  ……but it was the main dealer and we waited inside drinking expensive coffee and biscuits (wrapped) but point is not one single person in the dealership, and there were many were not wearing masks sales people wandering around the showroom unmasked, staff at the service area were at least behind screens but we sat there masked up (between coffees) and feeling a bit daft, but ultimately feeling we were doing the right thing.

 

When it's busy I still wear a mask, for example shopping at the supermarket in the daytime, but late at night I don't any longer.  If I am entering or leaving a food establishment I don't bother either, but I still carry a mask just in case I feel the need.

 

You need to do what you feel comfortable with, don't feel daft, you're doing what you want to do, it's personal choice.

[John M Upton]

People keep saying there are less people travelling on public transport.  The last week I have had numerous full and standing twelve car trains between the Sussex Coast and London (and vice versa)  especially last Saturday which got to the point where I had to leave people behind at Gatwick Airport.

 

The claim that public transport usage is significantly down, I strongly disagree with.

[Fat Controller]

6 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

People keep saying there are less people travelling on public transport.  The last week I have had numerous full and standing twelve car trains between the Sussex Coast and London (and vice versa)  especially last Saturday which got to the point where I had to leave people behind at Gatwick Airport.

 

The claim that public transport usage is significantly down, I strongly disagree with.

I suspect it varies from place to place; I passed the car park at Folkestone West earlier this week, about 11:00, and the Up car park was less than quarter-full.

[Hobby]

6 hours ago, John M Upton said:

 

The claim that public transport usage is significantly down, I strongly disagree with.

 

You can disagree all you want but the facts are the over the network the figures are well down on pre covid figures. There might be some trains where those who aren't back at work but are still going out to the seaside or for days out will make them busy but the majority are still well down. Roads on the other hand are busier than before due in part to people avoiding public transport! 

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

Roads on the other hand are busier than before due in part to people avoiding public transport! 

Not to mention, for most , road travel is cheaper [by far for me!!]

[Hobby]

Maybe for you, but many people who don't do the mechanical side of car ownership themselves conveniently ignore the true costs when comparing them. At the moment though I still feel that avoidance of PT is down to fear rather than anything else. Otherwise why woukd you do an hour road commute with all the hassle rather than a half hour on a train. (Into Brum in this example.) Makes my job easier though, so not complaining! 

[Mark Saunders]

The cost of car travel is for many just based on the cost of the fuel used and ignores servicing, tyres plus insurance!

 

Then ignore the cost of purchasing the vehicle  ( then watch it depreciating as you drive it )!as once you have one your wallet never really closed!

[RJS1977]

9 hours ago, John M Upton said:

People keep saying there are less people travelling on public transport.  The last week I have had numerous full and standing twelve car trains between the Sussex Coast and London (and vice versa)  especially last Saturday which got to the point where I had to leave people behind at Gatwick Airport.

 

The claim that public transport usage is significantly down, I strongly disagree with.

 

I think it very much depends where and when you travel.

 

Reading station is still a shadow of its former passenger numbers, and I had a markedly quiet coach heading into Paddington at lunchtime (in spite of the previous train having been cancelled).

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

The cost of car travel is for many just based on the cost of the fuel used and ignores servicing, tyres plus insurance!

 

Then ignore the cost of purchasing the vehicle  ( then watch it depreciating as you drive it )!as once you have one your wallet never really closed!

 

But then you must add back in the value of the time savings you make. Even when I had an old banger to go to work, it was cheaper to buy and run than pay for public transport without taking the cost of 1.5 hour journey each way against a 20 min, that's if they were running when I started an early shift, let alone finished nights

[Hobby]

But for trips to the seaside or shopping the extra time used taking PT isn't really all that relevant as the trip in the train is often seen as part of the day, especially in the example which started the discussion (trip to the seaside) . Commuting is a different kettle of fish, but whilst your example is one, the one I gave earlier shows the opposite result, train being quicker and less hassle. I can't use PT when going to work as it doesn't run when I need it, but if my shift coincides with the rush hour I will use it as its a lot less hassle than being stuck in a four mile traffic jam as long as I can get back on PT at the end of the shift, otherwise its an hour or so of hell in the car! 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Hobby

[alastairq]

Trips to the seaside? Train journey part of the enjoyment?  Whatever happened to piling into grandad's car as a family, for a trip to [choose preferred destination]?

 

For a single person, one-off journey, PT is just, but only just, about comparable to the annual cost of private transport.

Add two people, r a family into the equation, and PT soon becomes a nightmare,  in every sense of the word.

 

Up here in sticks, PT is really a token gesture.

Only last week, Dearest Daughter rang me up, could she beg a lift?   Not having use of her car for the day, she intended going to work by train [just possible, given where she lives, and where she works]  On rockin' up at the station, she was greeted with the information that her particular train [there was no other anyway] was cancelled, due to the Guard getting covid-pinged.

So Dad [me] drove the 5 miles into town, picked her up, took her to work [arriving before the train would have got there anyway]....and picked her up again that evening.

A total mileage of around 80 miles. There & back, and there & back again.  A return train fare for the journey   is a tenner. Not including the mile walk to & from the local station.

DD gave me her train fare for my trouble!  [I would have done it for nowt, but she knows I'm a pensioniert}...but at least she was taken almost door-to-door [aside from the initial one mile walk to her station, to only find the train was cancelled! }

She could have caught to local bus service at that point, but that would have meant not only an hour's journey [more, since the bus times weren't coincidental]...at slightly less cost for a return ticket.

Normally she would drive [and eliminate my two return journeys]...on what is really but a half hour cross country journey.  No traffic jams, and the route I showed her, really, no eedjits on the roads either.  Her car isn't anywhere near new [newer by a long chalk than mine, however]...and probably gives around 45-50 mpgs, little in the way of tax, so, servicing & insurance costs...

Plus, she gets to choose who she gets sat next to, or how smelly they are.

Not forgetting being able to come & go as she pleases, rather than being 'told' when she can travel.

 

I appreciate the above in no way compares to the urban situation elsewhere...but if folk will live cheek-by-jowl, and clog up the environment, what do they expect?

However, it does compare to my last real long distance train journey 16 years ago...here to Portsmouth, via the Buncefield disaster...90 quid one way, and many hours stood up in a rammed carriage...plus the change over in that gawdawful place they call Lundun...I drove back in the missus's 'new' car...a lot less than 90 quid in petrol, and at least I had a seat to myself.  A lot quicker, too.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by alastairq

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

But for trips to the seaside or shopping the extra time used taking PT isn't really all that relevant as the trip in the train is often seen as part of the day, especially in the example which started the discussion (trip to the seaside) . Commuting is a different kettle of fish, but whilst your example is one, the one I gave earlier shows the opposite result, train being quicker and less hassle. I can't use PT when going to work as it doesn't run when I need it, but if my shift coincides with the rush hour I will use it as its a lot less hassle than being stuck in a four mile traffic jam as long as I can get back on PT at the end of the shift, otherwise its an hour or so of hell in the car! 

I could yse the train to get to work although it's a fifteen minute walk at this end and a thirty minute walk at the other, which adds up to taking longer; I'm probably on the train for the same length or little less than in the car. That doesn't bother me that much (other than having to get out of bed eariler) , I've never been enthusiastic about making everything faster, it's fast enough, and the walking would do me good anyway. It's the train itself that puts me off more and more - the recent-ish refurbs include a very harsh interior, scrolling texts that flicker like mad if they're in the edge of the vision, really screeching beeps when the door open (the closing ones that have been there for ages aren't so bad), and automatic announcements running at top of the voice volume. I know why they're all there but it contributes to it being a pretty unpleasant experience.

 

The cost's a factor too although one that I'm not that concerned about - most of the "cheaper than a car" arguments seem to revolve around comparing it to not having a car at all, whereas most potential PT transport users will be both.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

But for trips to the seaside or shopping the extra time used taking PT isn't really all that relevant as the trip in the train is often seen as part of the day, especially in the example which started the discussion (trip to the seaside) . Commuting is a different kettle of fish, but whilst your example is one, the one I gave earlier shows the opposite result, train being quicker and less hassle. I can't use PT when going to work as it doesn't run when I need it, but if my shift coincides with the rush hour I will use it as its a lot less hassle than being stuck in a four mile traffic jam as long as I can get back on PT at the end of the shift, otherwise its an hour or so of hell in the car! 

 

I sort of agree with you, certainly going to central London its a no brainer, but as my nearest station is over 5 miles away, parking some distance from it and expensive, plus the actual cost of travel it starts to become expensive. I would still add even in the rush hour it may still be far quicker and more convenient, OK if you are a 5 or 10 mins walk away from the station, not if you have to pay for parking. The argument about speed can be important if you are waiting around for connections, change from trains to busses etc

 

30 years ago my dad's friend was a mini cab driver, each year he would drive two sisters to Wales for their holiday from Hertfordshire, then two weeks later pick them up. I questioned how cost effective this was and was surprised to find out it was cheaper, quicker and far more convenient, as it was door to door and no lugging baggage about.

 

Train travel is fine if the stations are both near you and the final destination. We love out trips to Italy by train and are due for another once Covid abates, but its a leisurely trip over two days with an overnight stop between 

 

I was looking for a cheap weekend or midweek break to either Edinburgh or the west coast (in the past been to York by train for weekend breaks several times), one word its expensive !!!

 

 

[RJS1977]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

But for trips to the seaside or shopping the extra time used taking PT isn't really all that relevant as the trip in the train is often seen as part of the day, especially in the example which started the discussion (trip to the seaside) . Commuting is a different kettle of fish, but whilst your example is one, the one I gave earlier shows the opposite result, train being quicker and less hassle. I can't use PT when going to work as it doesn't run when I need it, but if my shift coincides with the rush hour I will use it as its a lot less hassle than being stuck in a four mile traffic jam as long as I can get back on PT at the end of the shift, otherwise its an hour or so of hell in the car! 

 

In the days I commuted to Bracknell by train, I would usually have:

 

A nice 20 minute walk to the station.

20 minutes to sit on the train and read the newspaper.

A nice 10 minute walk to the office.

 

And the reverse in the evening, with a different newspaper (which I never paid for, as I just picked up discarded copies - usually Metro in the morning and the Evening Standard on the way home.

 

So whilst it probably took me twice as long as driving, I usually arrived at home fresh and relaxed and having got some exercise in rather than frazzled from doing battle with the Bracknell and Reading traffic. Of course, it didn't always work out that way (on one occasion I ended up walking from Bracknell to Wokingham owing to a fatality at Twickenham) but it usually did.

 

Conversely I remember a time when flooding of the Thames and the Loddon meant that I was one of the few people from Reading in the office one morning as my motoring colleagues were all stuck in traffic. (Perhaps given who my employer was, my colleagues should have seen that coming and made alternative arrangements....)

[John M Upton]

Snapshot survey, not very scientific but travelling and working trains this weekend, mask wearing is down to about 10% on average and virtually none on passengers going to/from Gatwick.  Seems most people have given up, Covid has become yesterday's chip wrapper, the Government are too busy arguing on social media about an Alpaca and trying to draw a big map in crayon to show Boris where Afghanistan is....