RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted March 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2021 Would anyone have any information on which LMS depots received these large concrete structures, like the last remaining examples at Carnforth? I think they were often referred to as 'Cenotaphs' by the engine men, and were constructed from the 1930s, possibly with some government funding assistance during economic hard times. It's a bit out of my normal era/area, so any pointers to books or magazine articles would also be helpful too. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, stovepipe said: Would anyone have any information on which LMS depots received these large concrete structures, like the last remaining examples at Carnforth? I think they were often referred to as 'Cenotaphs' by the engine men, and were constructed from the 1930s, possibly with some government funding assistance during economic hard times. It's a bit out of my normal era/area, so any pointers to books or magazine articles would also be helpful too. Thanks. Rugby for a start, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Details will be in the LMS Engine Shed books. You should be able to pick the books up for less than a tenner each if you keep watching Amazon and eBay. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bookseries/B0116RQOQ4/ref=dp_st_0906867029 I don't think there was that many of them built before the scheme was stopped due to the war to be honest. Post War ones tended to be the hopper type I think. Speke's probably a good example. Still had it's LNWR type until 1955 when it received a hopper. I take it that is an ash tower though. http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/SpekeJunctionLocomotiveShed8C Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Forgot about these books. I think the information might be in here as well. https://www.abebooks.co.uk/first-edition/BR-STEAM-MOTIVE-POWER-DEPOTS-LMR/30092821635/bd If I can find my copies I'll have a look. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) I have a copy of a booklet produced by the Railway Gazette, in 1937, called "London Midland & Scottish Railway, Reorganisation of the Motive Power Department". I won't scan it in & reproduce here, as I am wary of copyright issues, but p9 has a photo of the coaling stage at Rugby, & a list of the following installations & suppliers:- COALING PLANTS:- Henry Lees & Co. Ltd: 29 installations at Leeds (Farnley) Longsight, Patricroft Buxton Stoke Devons Road Nuneaton Saltley Carlisle (Kingmoor) Derby Peterborough Inverness Carstairs Corkerhill Lower Darwen Bank Hall Lostock Hall Agecroft Aintree Perth Goole RoseGrove Bolton (presumably Plodder Lane?) Bedford Accrington Stafford Mold Junction Camden Huddersfield Mitchell Engineering Ltd: 9 installations at Aston Monument Lane Rugby Newton Heath Holyhead Tilbury Low Moor Hasland Preston R. Dempster & Sons Ltd: 3 installations at Sheffield (Grimesthorpe) Nottingham Leeds (Holbeck) Babcock & Wilcox Ltd: 1 installation at Springs Branch Wantage Engineering Co. Ltd: 1 installation at Walsall Wellam Smith Owen Engineering Corpration Ltd: 1 installation at Bescot Mayor & Coulson Ltd: 1 installation at Stranraer Royce Ltd: 1 installation (coal crane) at Lancaster ASH PLANTS R. Dempster & Sons Ltd: 13 installations at Rugby Monument Lane Edge Hill Leeds (Farnley) Springs Branch Devons Road Newton Heath Bank Hall Lostock Hall Accrington Bedford Preston Nuneaton Henry Lees & Co. Ltd: 10 installations at Buxton Longsight Corkerhill Agecroft Lower Darwen Rose Grove Bolton (presumably Plodder Lane?) Camden Huddersfield Stafford Babcock & Wilcox Ltd: 14 installations at Stoke Derby Leeds Peterborough Saltley Sheffield (Grimesthorpe) Inverness Carstairs Carlisle (Kingmoor) Perth Mold Junction Aintree Goole Low Moor M.B. Wild & Co. Ltd: 4 installations at Patricroft Bescot Wallsall Nottingham Mitchell Engineering Ltd: 1 installation at Aston Link to the above in Excel spreadsheet form: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K2ePqqoDViwU8n7w0rdlxxs-GVM3CWM-/view?usp=sharing If you can find a copy of the book on ebay or elsewhere, it's an interesting read, if you're into that sort of thing. There are diagrams & drawings of coaling plants & ash plants, though not of each type, and some photos as well, plus a map showing main & "garage" depots throughout the LMS system, and shedcodes. There's also a map showing plans of the modernised depots at Camden, Longsight & Derby. Edited March 27, 2021 by rodent279 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 NB. This Quote Mayor & Coulson Ltd: 1 installation at Stranraer was one of the steel hopper plants as per the Ratio kit and as shown above at Speke. These are much smaller than the concrete ones but the Ratio kit has vital parts, especially the control gates for the discharge, missing so needs quite a bit of work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted March 27, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2021 That's fantastic - thanks '279! Much better than I hoped for. And thanks to others who replied also - I have enough places to research for the time being. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) Carnforth coaling tower is a grade II listed building , I think for historical reasons rather than for its architectural beauty. Last time I was there though it was considered unsafe - concrete cancer. Built I believe by Spencer & Co of Melksham, and reputedly the prototype for models by Superquick & Scenecraft. Edited March 27, 2021 by Michael Hodgson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 On 27/03/2021 at 14:57, rodent279 said: I have a copy of a booklet produced by the Railway Gazette, in 1937, called "London Midland & Scottish Railway, Reorganisation of the Motive Power Department". I won't scan it in & reproduce here, as I am wary of copyright issues, but p9 has a photo of the coaling stage at Rugby, & a list of the following installations & suppliers:- COALING PLANTS:- Henry Lees & Co. Ltd: 29 installations at Leeds (Farnley) Longsight, Patricroft Buxton Stoke Devons Road Nuneaton Saltley Carlisle (Kingmoor) Derby Peterborough Inverness Carstairs Corkerhill Lower Darwen Bank Hall Lostock Hall Agecroft Aintree Perth Goole RoseGrove Bolton (presumably Plodder Lane) The ferro-concrete coaling tower (and ash plant) was at Bolton Crescent Rd. MPD which was the larger, ex L&Y shed. It can be seen in the background of the first photo below. Plodder Lane, the ex LNW shed had a 2 road brick coaling stage with water tank above dating from c.1890. Aintree's coaling plant can be seen behind the WD in the second photo. Hope this is of interest. Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 29, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Marshall5 said: The ferro-concrete coaling tower (and ash plant) was at Bolton Crescent Rd. MPD which was the larger, ex L&Y shed. It can be seen in the background of the first photo below. Plodder Lane, the ex LNW shed had a 2 road brick coaling stage with water tank above dating from c.1890. Aintree's coaling plant can be seen behind the WD in the second photo. Hope this is of interest. Ray. Thanks. I was assuming Plodder Lane, as my dad was shift foreman there in the early 1950's. Unfortunately he's not around to ask anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 My uncle's Dad 'Gus' Mercer was a driver at Plodder Lane right up to closure and moved over to Crescent Rd. to work out the last couple of years up to retirement. I believe my first footplate experience was at Plodder Lane aged about 3. All I remember was peering into the raging inferno of a 4F firebox and from then on I was hooked! Cheers, Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Wasn't there something similar at Normanton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted March 29, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2021 5 hours ago, doilum said: Wasn't there something similar at Normanton? Certainly looks that way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 On 27/03/2021 at 15:09, Grovenor said: NB. This was one of the steel hopper plants as per the Ratio kit and as shown above at Speke. These are much smaller than the concrete ones but the Ratio kit has vital parts, especially the control gates for the discharge, missing so needs quite a bit of work. Don't know how many others of this type existed but Oban and Wick both had them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 30, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2021 There was an ash plant at Carlisle Upperby as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 30, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2021 The Railway Gazette booklet was published in 1937, so any built after then will not have been captured. In the two years up to WW2, I guess another handful could easily have been built, and I think the LMS/BR restarted installation after the war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 30, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) On 27/03/2021 at 14:57, rodent279 said: I have a copy of a booklet produced by the Railway Gazette, in 1937, called "London Midland & Scottish Railway, Reorganisation of the Motive Power Department". I won't scan it in & reproduce here, as I am wary of copyright issues, but p9 has a photo of the coaling stage at Rugby, & a list of the following installations & suppliers:- On 27/03/2021 at 14:57, rodent279 said: . There are diagrams & drawings of coaling plants & ash plants, though not of each type, and some photos as well @M Lane Have you seen this thread? Edited March 30, 2021 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 17 hours ago, stovepipe said: Certainly looks that way Thanks. Memories of long walks with grandad circa 1963. Long lines of locomotives in "storage" awaiting their final journey to the cutters. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad2 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Somewhere in the hoards of railway mags modelling mags someone did a scale drawing of one LMS type 2 ? and printed lots of photographs etc etc. I know cause I started to make one using the drawing, then got involved in something else, and never finished it properly. I don't know if the scale drawing is accurate but do know slight differences within each type, couple of pathe films on utube show correct coal loading lots of water to keep down coal dust. With the LNER one of the on shed books mentions that railway companies received government grants, or loans in 1930's in order to reduce labour costs. Anyone got any pictures of one been built ? assume lots of shuttering, scaffolding etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted April 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) I don't think Bristol Barrow Road has been mentioned before. The array of shovels and brooms on the shed roof is a nice detail for a model! Edited April 1, 2021 by phil_sutters Photo removed 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad2 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Phil thanks for posting pic, saves us looking for pic that side of tower, nice pic of the ash tower too very much like superquick one 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnforth Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 On 27/03/2021 at 17:36, Michael Hodgson said: Carnforth coaling tower is a grade II listed building , I think for historical reasons rather than for its architectural beauty. Last time I was there though it was considered unsafe - concrete cancer. Built I believe by Spencer & Co of Melksham, and reputedly the prototype for models by Superquick & Scenecraft. I'm pretty sure the most Northern control cabin has collaped in it's own space, btween stock. such a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 What was the difference between the ones done for the LMS sheds and those at LNER sheds, Eastfield had a fine example and even the small shed at Kipps had one. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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