Interesting and inspiring photos from Flickr....

[montyburns56]

Bankers at Blackwell 1978 by Kevin Connolly

 

 

[Artless Bodger]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

A double Deltic, there are some that might exclaim Hellfire here.

 

The old advert "A double Deltic works wonders! So get one today!"

[DavidLong]

17 hours ago, woodenhead said:

A rail tour entering the Fallowfield loop at Trafford Park - not seen many if any images from that angle.

 

and looking the other way

 

 

 

The Fallowfield loop has been a sad loss to Manchester. It took London a while to fully accept that people may want to travel around a city and not necessarily always towards the centre, hence the success of London Overground.

Stockport - Stalybridge sadly under-utilised and another, Bolton - Bury - Rochdale seemingly gone forever.

Gareth Dennis makes the point that the real carnage in the Beeching plan was in England's provincial cities which has left them under-provided with urban railways.

 

David

[Mike_Walker]

On 03/05/2024 at 19:50, Andy Kirkham said:

 

 

Roger Joanes has recently posted more from his seemingly inexhaustible archive of superb captures. You get the impression that he must have spent all his money and free time travelling about by train.

 

How often did Southern locos reach Bodmin Road?

 

Twice a day in the BR era.  There was one round trip in the morning and one in the late evening.

[woodenhead]

6 hours ago, DavidLong said:

 

The Fallowfield loop has been a sad loss to Manchester. It took London a while to fully accept that people may want to travel around a city and not necessarily always towards the centre, hence the success of London Overground.

Stockport - Stalybridge sadly under-utilised and another, Bolton - Bury - Rochdale seemingly gone forever.

Gareth Dennis makes the point that the real carnage in the Beeching plan was in England's provincial cities which has left them under-provided with urban railways.

 

David

The lines at Skelton Junction performed that task, a route through Manchester without going through Manchester, and still do to an extent. 

 

The Fallowfield loop only really had Trafford Park serving traffic, it did used to have one service per week out from Irlam Steelworks (don't remember an inward one) and the MSC also had access to the Skelton line from Glazebrook sidings.  The loop lost it's passenger service in 1958, well before Beeching and it only carried mainline passenger services going towards Sheffield Victoria thereafter losing those when Liverpool Central and then Manchester Central stopped services towards the east.  It couldn't even really offer a capacity solution into Manchester, when the Liverpool locals were stopped at Oxford Rd it was basically leaving the commuters on that line a couple of minutes walk from where Central had been either down Deansgate or Oxford Rd, had they used the loop line it would have delayed arrival into Manchester and plonked passengers on the opposite side of the centre from where they had been used to.

 

As Trafford Park lost it's industries, the docks closed and freight wound down it left just Freightliner traffic which itself was rerouted to be able to avoid going via Gorton & Ashburys, and eventually Holyhead lost it's place to Liverpool for the transit of containers which would also have seen the Fallowfield Loop close had they kept it going longer than they did.

 

Local passenger services became poor when electric trams first began running into Manchester, they were more convenient than trains on the Fallowfield loop for Chorlton, Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and Levenshulme as all these stations were close to main road routes.  The trains never recovered and BR clearly recognised that electifying the route to Central and running local services was not economic seeing them both cut when the Woodhead route itself was electrified to save money.

 

I still think it was wrong that they allowed building across the route in Fallowfield, it rather complicates any chance of Metrolink building an extension especially now they are thinking about circular routes in possible future phases.  But given there is only Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and maybe Birchfields that would really benefit - Levenshulme is well served by train as is Reddish, I don't think there is much scope unless there is a case to go for some sort of inner circle line and it serves Fairfield, Guide Bridge and then a new line to join the Ashton line back towards Manchester where it would create a loop.

Edited May 10 by woodenhead
it was 58 the locals stopped, not 54

[keefer]

19 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Not many places where you'd find a 50 and a Deltic in normal service side by side - York was one of them.

 

Newly refurbished but still in Blue 50019 awaiting a return to the Western Region.

 

The 50 probably waiting to take over from a Deltic on 1V93 Edinburgh-Plymouth or similar

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, keefer said:

The 50 probably waiting to take over from a Deltic on 1V93 Edinburgh-Plymouth or similar

It was.

 

I'd like to find a picture of a Deltic at Stockport on the York-Shrewsbury and return, there must be one somewhere.  I saw one there whilst passing on an overnight train from Manchester to London, but I didn't have a camera to record it smoking away in the centre road waiting for the return train to arrive for it to take over.

[62613]

35 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

The lines at Skelton Junction performed that task, a route through Manchester without going through Manchester, and still do to an extent. 

 

The Fallowfield loop only really had Trafford Park serving traffic, it did used to have one service per week out from Irlam Steelworks (don't remember an inward one) and the MSC also had access to the Skelton line from Glazebrook sidings.  The loop lost it's passenger service in 1954, well before Beeching and it only carried mainline passenger services going towards Sheffield Victoria thereafter losing those when Liverpool Central and then Manchester Central stopped services towards the east.  It couldn't even really offer a capacity solution into Manchester, when the Liverpool locals were stopped at Oxford Rd it was basically leaving the commuters on that line a couple of minutes walk from where Central had been either down Deansgate or Oxford Rd, had they used the loop line it would have delayed arrival into Manchester and plonked passengers on the opposite side of the centre from where they had been used to.

 

As Trafford Park lost it's industries, the docks closed and freight wound down it left just Freightliner traffic which itself was rerouted to be able to avoid going via Gorton & Ashburys, and eventually Holyhead lost it's place to Liverpool for the transit of containers which would also have seen the Fallowfield Loop close had they kept it going longer than they did.

 

Local passenger services became poor when electric trams first began running into Manchester, they were more convenient than trains on the Fallowfield loop for Chorlton, Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and Levenshulme as all these stations were close to main road routes.  The trains never recovered and BR clearly recognised that electifying the route to Central and running local services was not economic seeing them both cut when the Woodhead route itself was electrified to save money.

 

I still think it was wrong that they allowed building across the route in Fallowfield, it rather complicates any chance of Metrolink building an extension especially now they are thinking about circular routes in possible future phases.  But given there is only Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and maybe Birchfields that would really benefit - Levenshulme is well served by train as is Reddish, I don't think there is much scope unless there is a case to go for some sort of inner circle line and it serves Fairfield, Guide Bridge and then a new reinstated line to join the Ashton line back towards Manchester where it would create a loop.

Fixed! there was a line from Guide Bridge round to Crowthorn Junction, where it joined the Denton Junction - Ashton Moss line

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Fixed! there was a line from Guide Bridge round to Crowthorn Junction, where it joined the Denton Junction - Ashton Moss line

Still is, but some of it is now under Ikea and the other bit still entertains Network Rail traffic, so I think any inner loop would require a new route.

 

However, there was an older LNW route from Audenshaw to Droylsden from Crowthorne Junction to the LNW Miles Platting to Stalybridge route whose alignment is still intact and crosses the Metrolink route to Ashton.  So perhaps use the spare GC alignment from Fairfield to Guide Bridge and then a new alignement to get to the old LNW line to Droylsden and a westerly connection with the Ashton route to make the loop.

 

There solved it, don't know why it's not been thought of before lol.

[65179]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It was.

 

I'd like to find a picture of a Deltic at Stockport on the York-Shrewsbury and return, there must be one somewhere.  I saw one there whilst passing on an overnight train from Manchester to London, but I didn't have a camera to record it smoking away in the centre road waiting for the return train to arrive for it to take over.

 

 

Tulyarman Flickr image. Click link for full details. 

 

Simon

[woodenhead]

@65179 Thanks for that.  I can see now my mistake I was looking for tags of Deltic or Stockport and this was Deltics or Deltic Locomotive.

 

It's all about the prompt engineering these days isn't it.

 

So that Deltic is awaiting departure back to York as I can see the EMU sidings in the background.

[Steven B]

Another Tulyarman FLickr image. 55006, Stockport 1979 (off the York-Shrewsbury mail):

[woodenhead]

And one at Stratford in daylight, considering it was still an ECML race horse at this time.

 

[woodenhead]

Barrow Hill's attempt is not the first one of a Baby Deltic

 

[woodenhead]

And a service rescue of a 55 by a 50 at Kings Cross

 

[65179]

6 hours ago, woodenhead said:

@65179 Thanks for that.  I can see now my mistake I was looking for tags of Deltic or Stockport and this was Deltics or Deltic Locomotive.

 

It's all about the prompt engineering these days isn't it.

 

So that Deltic is awaiting departure back to York as I can see the EMU sidings in the background.

 

Although I'm not much of a Deltic fan (I don't have any memory of them in service), for reasons not worth going into, I included the following as part of a response to an article on Deltics in the Manchester Locomotive Society Mancunian:

 

Deltics made it to Stockport from York, and on a fairly regular basis.  The actual train bringing most of these sightings was a TPO (Travelling Post Office) service.  For the period of interest, it was 1M41 21:50 York-Shrewsbury/Aberystwyth and the 1E24 22:50 Shrewsbury-York return.  The Deltic or other loco on this diagram generally worked to Stockport, giving way to an electric to take the train forward to Crewe, and then picked up the return working back to York.  The Chronicles of Napier website (www.napier-chronicles.co.uk) provides most of the information collated here.

 

55009 Alycidon was the first Deltic recorded as working 1M41 as early as 8th March 1974.  The last recorded is 55021 Argyll & Sutherland Highlander on 27th October 1981 (one of 8 recorded appearances). The Chronicles currently notes 60 appearances of Deltics on this train working to Stockport.  As I understand it, only 55001, 55003, 55007 and 55012 are not suggested as having worked to Stockport on the TPO. Given the time of day that this service operated, photographs are thin on the ground, but for those interested the website features views of 55006, 55010 and 55021 at Stockport. A search for Deltic Stockport in Flickr will also bring up a few atmospheric photos.”

 

Simon

[65179]

10 hours ago, woodenhead said:

The lines at Skelton Junction performed that task, a route through Manchester without going through Manchester, and still do to an extent. 

 

The Fallowfield loop only really had Trafford Park serving traffic, it did used to have one service per week out from Irlam Steelworks (don't remember an inward one) and the MSC also had access to the Skelton line from Glazebrook sidings.  The loop lost it's passenger service in 1958, well before Beeching and it only carried mainline passenger services going towards Sheffield Victoria thereafter losing those when Liverpool Central and then Manchester Central stopped services towards the east.  It couldn't even really offer a capacity solution into Manchester, when the Liverpool locals were stopped at Oxford Rd it was basically leaving the commuters on that line a couple of minutes walk from where Central had been either down Deansgate or Oxford Rd, had they used the loop line it would have delayed arrival into Manchester and plonked passengers on the opposite side of the centre from where they had been used to.

 

As Trafford Park lost it's industries, the docks closed and freight wound down it left just Freightliner traffic which itself was rerouted to be able to avoid going via Gorton & Ashburys, and eventually Holyhead lost it's place to Liverpool for the transit of containers which would also have seen the Fallowfield Loop close had they kept it going longer than they did.

 

Local passenger services became poor when electric trams first began running into Manchester, they were more convenient than trains on the Fallowfield loop for Chorlton, Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and Levenshulme as all these stations were close to main road routes.  The trains never recovered and BR clearly recognised that electifying the route to Central and running local services was not economic seeing them both cut when the Woodhead route itself was electrified to save money.

 

I still think it was wrong that they allowed building across the route in Fallowfield, it rather complicates any chance of Metrolink building an extension especially now they are thinking about circular routes in possible future phases.  But given there is only Wilbraham Rd, Fallowfield and maybe Birchfields that would really benefit - Levenshulme is well served by train as is Reddish, I don't think there is much scope unless there is a case to go for some sort of inner circle line and it serves Fairfield, Guide Bridge and then a new line to join the Ashton line back towards Manchester where it would create a loop.

 

When did the Haverton Hill-Glazebrooks get diverted from the Fallowfield Loop? Ca. 1986 the sound of a 37 blasting under Wilbraham Road bridge as I walked along Albany Rd to get the bus to school in the morning was always a good way to join the land of the living.

 

Simon

[woodenhead]

55 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

When did the Haverton Hill-Glazebrooks get diverted from the Fallowfield Loop? Ca. 1986 the sound of a 37 blasting under Wilbraham Road bridge as I walked along Albany Rd to get the bus to school in the morning was always a good way to join the land of the living.

 

Simon

Not sure, once I began working my days of watching trains go by ended rather abruptly, alcohol might have played a part.

 

I do remember them going by but cannot remember when they stopped, there used to also be a late night double headed 37 Freightliner from the North East that would rumble by in the darkness.

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, 65179 said:

55009 Alycidon was the first Deltic recorded as working 1M41 as early as 8th March 1974.  The last recorded is 55021 Argyll & Sutherland Highlander on 27th October 1981 (one of 8 recorded appearances). The Chronicles currently notes 60 appearances of Deltics on this train working to Stockport.  As I understand it, only 55001, 55003, 55007 and 55012 are not suggested as having worked to Stockport on the TPO. Given the time of day that this service operated, photographs are thin on the ground, but for those interested the website features views of 55006, 55010 and 55021 at Stockport. A search for Deltic Stockport in Flickr will also bring up a few atmospheric photos.”

 

That answers another question, how many made it to Stockport.

[Matt37268]

On 09/05/2024 at 16:52, woodenhead said:

A double Deltic, there are some that might exclaim Hellfire here.

 

Serious thigh rubbing moment there 😜

[Matt37268]

13 hours ago, keefer said:

The 50 probably waiting to take over from a Deltic on 1V93 Edinburgh-Plymouth or similar

Would York men sign for Fifties then or would it be a Saltley Seagull? Or maybe even a Donny bloke? Sorry if this is a bit random bit it’s interesting how a photo can make you start to wonder. ‘How would that get there?’ 

[97406]

2 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

Would York men sign for Fifties then or would it be a Saltley Seagull? Or maybe even a Donny bloke? Sorry if this is a bit random bit it’s interesting how a photo can make you start to wonder. ‘How would that get there?’ 

 

Wasn’t it a test run on release from Doncaster that got it to York? I’m going on a distant memory so I could be wrong, but I’m sure I remember reading it in Rail Enthusiast mag at the time.

[03060]

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

Wasn’t it a test run on release from Doncaster that got it to York? I’m going on a distant memory so I could be wrong, but I’m sure I remember reading it in Rail Enthusiast mag at the time.

 

Some went via Leeds (possibly to pick up the same train ??) as I had a 'Glorious' moment one morning on my way to work when I found 50033 sat waiting patiently in Leeds City station.

Likewise, I seem to remember an article or snippet from Rail Enthusiast but I'm afraid that I dismantled my copies several years ago now in a space saving bid (which I now regret.)

 

Regards,

Ian.

[keefer]

8 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

Would York men sign for Fifties then or would it be a Saltley Seagull? Or maybe even a Donny bloke? Sorry if this is a bit random bit it’s interesting how a photo can make you start to wonder. ‘How would that get there?’ 

I was just assuming that York was a swap over point between North/South bound trains although thinking about it, it may have usually been a Peak taking over from the Deltic?

[55020]

6 minutes ago, keefer said:

I was just assuming that York was a swap over point between North/South bound trains although thinking about it, it may have usually been a Peak taking over from the Deltic?

 

The the Edinburgh - Plymouth normal traction would be a Peak or a 47 taking over at York, but was used when a 50 had to be returned to its home rails.  Most of the NE-SW trains originated at Newcastle and the same traction would work the entire route.

 

5 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

Wasn’t it a test run on release from Doncaster that got it to York? I’m going on a distant memory so I could be wrong, but I’m sure I remember reading it in Rail Enthusiast mag at the time.

 

The Donny test train was usually a run to Newcastle and back, not just for 50s but anything coming out of The Plant.  I would think that the Doncaster to York positioning would have been done light engine?  Not certain though.