Doing the unthinkable to a Hornby Pullman Car

[Mallard60022]

Has anyone been cruel enough to do what the SR did to a Pullman Bar Car (as per Hadrian Bar) and paint it green and if so, what did you have to do to deconstruct it (if you did) and then reconstruct it? The Hornby Type K example I have just acquired is brand new, unused and I am ashamed to admit that I am going to attempt this, despite thinking it looks great as it is!

Any other info would be useful, even if it is only how to open the thing up without damaging anything.

Many thanks in anticipation of the outcry at my intentions.

Phil

[Hilux5972]

You are an evil, sick, twisted individual and should be banned forthwith from the Modelling community. Joking of course lol. 
 

Knowing the Pullman’s, I would imagine you would just need to remove the corridor connections, buffers, handrails, and glazing. The Pullman’s don’t have large amounts of external seperate details so it is one of the easier repaints. 
 

Opening up the coach is fairly easy. 4 clips at the corners, and a clip in the centre of each side too. 
 

Are you sure you wanna do it with a brand new unused one? Surely a 2nd hand one would be a better option for a first attempt. 

[KeithMacdonald]

A green Pullman car?

 

Here's one we prepared earlier:

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Isn't that the old model though?

 

I think he's thinking about using the newer version.

 

Just don't use one that goes for silly money. You can get some for a reasonable price, but the prices have been rising again recently as they haven't made many for a while. I've noticed some going for over £80!

 

 

Jason

[Merfyn Jones]

And there are the Scottish ones that were painted maroon.

 

[Ben Alder]

Working on a ScR one at the moment, but as a camping car. Should have pics in a few days...Here is one I repainted as one of the restaurant cars  some while back. Not an exact replica but more a place holder until and if I get round to doing a more accurate version.

 

[Mallard60022]

On 11/06/2021 at 10:57, Hilux5972 said:

You are an evil, sick, twisted individual and should be banned forthwith from the Modelling community. Joking of course lol. 
 

Knowing the Pullman’s, I would imagine you would just need to remove the corridor connections, buffers, handrails, and glazing. The Pullman’s don’t have large amounts of external seperate details so it is one of the easier repaints. 
 

Opening up the coach is fairly easy. 4 clips at the corners, and a clip in the centre of each side too. 
 

Are you sure you wanna do it with a brand new unused one? Surely a 2nd hand one would be a better option for a first attempt. 

Thanks for that; excellent advice. I couldn't find a relevant 2nd hand one but the one I have got was £56 so I will be doing it very carefully; not the first time I have repainted a coach but I will be practising beforehand!

 

On 11/06/2021 at 11:17, KeithMacdonald said:

A green Pullman car?

 

Here's one we prepared earlier:

 

 

Thanks Keith, that's a 57 footer and I might not need to do that now as I had thought. The Special in September 1958 had 3 Pullmans in Pullman Livery and the Green Hadrian Bar within a much split Bulleid set, I have discovered in research.

 

On 12/06/2021 at 23:11, Merfyn Jones said:

And there are the Scottish ones that were painted maroon.

I didn't know that Merfyn; learn something every day. See below......

 

On 12/06/2021 at 23:19, Ben Alder said:

Working on a ScR one at the moment, but as a camping car. Should have pics in a few days...Here is one I repainted as one of the restaurant cars  some while back. Not an exact replica but more a place holder until and if I get round to doing a more accurate version.

 

Very smart indeed BA. Also that track-work is top notch.

 

Much appreciate the info chaps; apologies for late responses, I have been melting for a few days.

Phil

[mark54]

Phil, the other thing you should be aware of is that The Hadrian Bar was converted from a Third Class car whereas the Hornby car is a model of a first class car conversion, therefore there are differences in the window layout. Also internally the toilet is on the side, there is no coupe and it has 2+1 seating. Robert Carroll's photo shows the corridor side in green livery.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/28912968487/in/album-72157603653607671/

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by mark54

[chris45lsw]

Cars 180 to 185, later S7872S to S7877S (not in the same order), were NOT 57ft;  they were 63ft 10in like all other 'K' class Pullmans.  But they were 8ft 1in wide instead of the usual 8ft 7in so that they could comply with SR Restriction 0 to go down the Hastings line.

 

Chris KT  

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, mark54 said:

Phil, the other thing you should be aware of is that The Hadrian Bar was converted from a Third Class car whereas the Hornby car is a model of a first class car conversion, therefore there are differences in the window layout. Also internally the toilet is on the side, there is no coupe and it has 2+1 seating. Robert Carroll's photo shows the corridor side in green livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/28912968487/in/album-72157603653607671/

Yes I had seen yesterday that all were 63 ft; I just thought that conversion shown from long ago modelling that was shown, was a 57' coach as it was a Hornby Dublo one.

Seems a wide spread misconception about the length, especially if Graham Muz got it wrong in another thread from 2014 I think it was? 

Oh Bummer about Hadrian! That's clouted that then! Not so fussed about inside but my eye will never accept the wonky window arrangement; otherwise, thanks for the info and I shall have to engage Rule 1 in some cunning way. 

P

Edited June 16, 2021 by Mallard60022

[BernardTPM]

The Hornby Dublo models were based on the standard length Pullmans (two 1928 and one 1952) but shorter than scale length.

The old Farish Pullmans always looked a bit narrow. Perhaps one of those might be a good place to start hacking for the buffet car, given the sides would need replating anyway.

[Graham_Muz]

9 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

Cars 180 to 185, later S7872S to S7877S (not in the same order), were NOT 57ft;  they were 63ft 10in like all other 'K' class Pullmans.  But they were 8ft 1in wide instead of the usual 8ft 7in so that they could comply with SR Restriction 0 to go down the Hastings line.

 

Chris KT  

 

Hi Chris,

 

I realise that you keep saying that the the six Hastings cars were not short, I have no issue with any misconceptions being corrected and I would be interested in your source. As I can only only find multiple references to the length being 57' including 

Terry Bye https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/PCS-A-Digest5-Dec2020.pdf

 

 

[chris45lsw]

Hi Graham,

 

There seems to be an error in the Digest!   

 

I get 63ft 10in from a) "Pullman Profile No 2 The Standard 'K-Type' Cars" by Antony Ford, which is quoted as a source in the Digest and b) Mike King's drawing of 'Barbara' is 63ft 10in.  

 

Interestingly the distance over the corner pillars of the body (excluding the end vestibules) is 57ft 1.5in!

 

Best regards

 

Chris KT 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Graham, my info comes from the newish books from Hugh Longworth, that have SR and LMS + Pullmans in Vol 2 and GWR and LNER in Vol 1. I have also seen 57' mentioned many times and read it in several books as captions,  so I am no Authority. I bow to others.  However, having seen Car 182 in a train in Southern Coaches by Welch and thinking that looks short, on further looks it seems same length as the next coach that is a Maunsell, so It does seem it could be 57.

Also, the first Pullman in the Westcounyryman special from Waterloo to Exeter, looks short compared to the Bulleid in front of it. I am more convinced they were 57. Oh dear, such fun.....

[Mallard60022]

OK friends. Through the hard work of a good pal of mine we have the 'short' answer to this 'lengthy' discussion about these Cars.

After a good deal of  searching and peering with a Spy Glass this is the verdict:

the Hastings Car, as someone has already said, is 57' 1.5"  at the end Pillars (so 63' from the faces of the Vestibules?). So you could say the Coaches are both lengths!!

I don't know, without looking, how coach lengths are usually calculated but I would say over connectors/buffer surface/Rubbing Plate distance (when Buffers retracted/removed).

Surely trains need to be measured over the total length when connected (goods trains were for siding/looping purposes).

There we go; everyone was correct (for a change).

What say ye all?

A. Notsoconfusedanymore.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

On 16/06/2021 at 15:35, chris45lsw said:

Hi Graham,

 

There seems to be an error in the Digest!   

 

I get 63ft 10in from a) "Pullman Profile No 2 The Standard 'K-Type' Cars" by Antony Ford, which is quoted as a source in the Digest and b) Mike King's drawing of 'Barbara' is 63ft 10in.  

 

Interestingly the distance over the corner pillars of the body (excluding the end vestibules) is 57ft 1.5in!

 

Best regards

 

Chris KT 

See my post above Chris. Very satisfactory and I would think a little misconception over actual length as the years have gone by. There are preserved ones so we could go and measure the damn things!

Phil

[Halvarras]

I've just spotted a Wrenn Pullman car in green livery in Hatton's most recent pre-owned listings, ref W6008. Didn't realise they ever did one. Coincidental timing so thought I just mention it here.....!

Oh, and another in LMS crimson, ref W6010 too.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Neil Phillips
Forgot the crimson one!

[Mallard60022]

Here we go from my friend:

63' 10" over Vestibules. This is where the misunderstanding was; the actual comparment part was 57' and a bit.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Mallard60022