Amazon to stop accepting Visa Credit payments from January

[APOLLO]

I kicked Amazon into touch a while ago when the started pushing Amazon Prime down your throat, and started charging delivery on most items. The richest man in the world is also partly responsible for destroying the high street in many towns. 

 

Shops web sites and Ebay shops for me lately, and yes ebay has their down sides occasionally. 

 

I have both a Mastercard & Visa card, never had any problems with either acceptance wise. If shops get fussy I'll go elsewhere.

 

Brit15

 

 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Danemouth said:

2 hours ago, w124bob said:

 

Amazon  will stop taking Visa Credit Cards but will still take Visa Debit Cards.

So long as they continue to take Visa Debit I will be unaffected, and if I need it I have an MC credit card, so it's a matter of possible inconvenience rather than my being unable to use Amazon.  It is, however, in Amazon's interest more than mine for them to make it as easy as possible for me to spend my money with them.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

The richest man in the world is also partly responsible for destroying the high street in many towns. 

 

High streets have been a peripheral at best part of most peoples' lives for many years now, and are IMHO mostly doomed, as are out of town malls and supermarkets.  In the future, there will be no shops, only delivery vans.  Gawdelpus if Hermes or UPS come out on top of this game...

[Hroth]

When the email turned up, with its handy little button allowing you to add another method of payment, it rang all my "dodgy email" bells, so I waited until it appeared on the Amazon site to verify its authenticity.  I'm not going to link a direct debit card to them, the reason for buying online using a credit card is that it acts as a buffer and the monthly statement acts as a buying regulator when it arrives, rather than sums just drifting out of my bank account on a daily (or whatever) basis.

 

So, If Amazon and Visa doesn't come to an accommodation by mid-January, then I won't be buying anything through them.  And I'm certainly not taking out an extra credit card just to do so!

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Hroth

[Michael Hodgson]

I cannot see this escaping attention from regulators, egged on by the media and politicians, although the final outcome is far from clear - apart from lots of lawyers raking it in for many years to come..

 

 

The Government wants a general move towards paying using traceable means and not using cash so that unlawful transactions can be traced.  Whilst Amazon won't be handling cash, other firms that may quickly follow their example could well have to.  So the anti-laundering fuzz will want that stopped.

 

The competition authorities will see Visa and Mastercard as already near-monopoly and anything that threatens reducing that to a single network will be a cause for concern.

 

People with poor credit ratings may only be able to get one card, and they have so say over which network that cares will be affiliated to, which will trigger complaints to MPs, the press  etc.

 

If Visa try to resolve this by doing a deal with Amazon that isn't also available to other firms, that will be seen as anti-competitive

 

If Amazon convince the authorities that Visa is indeed overcharging, the question will arise as to whether some price cap or restrictive legislation might be imposed.

 

As I understand it, Amazon is banning Visa credit cards only in the UK.  If the EU countries get a better deal, that would be seen by politicians as Visa exploiting Brexit, so a retaliatory law might be proposed or enacted.

 

  

[chris p bacon]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If Amazon convince the authorities that Visa is indeed overcharging

 

The BBC report suggested that Visa charge Amazon 0.1%, somewhat less than what other traders have to pay.

 

I did note that Amazon were claiming that high charges meant customers were paying more......Yeh right...

[Jonboy]

I have seen a reminder elsewhere that cross EU credit card fees were capped in the single market, when we left the EU Visa removed this cap on UK to EU transactions as they were cross border payments….

If you look at your Amazon.co.uk receipts they are normally from Amazon Sarl of Luxembourg, and not the Amazon ltd uk that handle the operational side of their uk warehouses and deliveries.

[MartynJPearson]

42 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

I have seen a reminder elsewhere that cross EU credit card fees were capped in the single market, when we left the EU Visa removed this cap on UK to EU transactions as they were cross border payments….

If you look at your Amazon.co.uk receipts they are normally from Amazon Sarl of Luxembourg, and not the Amazon ltd uk that handle the operational side of their uk warehouses and deliveries.

 

So is that a case of Amazon dropping Visa to continue avoiding tax? Visa missing a trick there for a retaliatory headline?

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, MartynJPearson said:

 

So is that a case of Amazon dropping Visa to continue avoiding tax? Visa missing a trick there for a retaliatory headline?

It's not a tax thing, it is what is called Interchange, it's fees that Visa adds when processing transactions, they are higher when the card is issued outside of the EU and the merchant is in the EU.  Before Brexit, we were all in the same Interchange zone so the fees were standardised across Europe, we outside of it now so higher fees.

 

I guess there is an element of tax avoidance as they use Luxemborg as their processing centre rather than a UK on, but that existed before Brexit and they clearly don't want to have a UK based processing centre either which would add cost and complexity.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I guess there is an element of tax avoidance as they use Luxemborg as their processing centre rather than a UK on, but that existed before Brexit and they clearly don't want to have a UK based processing centre either which would add cost and complexity.

 

Cost and complexity would be a valid reason not to book transactions through multiple companies within a group for a smaller company, but Amazon are large enough that the cost of the complexity would be outweighed by savings.  However using Luxembourg for tax reasons still makes sense for big companies although the benefits are no longer as great as they used to be.  

 

The tax office has some extremely bright people working for it, but their best tend to leave for better paid jobs with multi-nationals who can exploit their expertise, especially their knowledge of loopholes.   One of the best ways to cut down tax avoidance is simplification of the tax system, to eliminate the loopholes.  However politicians are unable to resist making complications to benefit particular industries which happen to be flavour of the month or which suit national interests.  They may find they have no realistic alternative but to take protectionist actions in response to policies introduced by foreign administrations  - this invariably creates new opportunities for debatable classification of borderlines cases.

 

[RedgateModels]

18 hours ago, admiles said:

My bank First Direct have just switched their debit cards from VISA to Mastercard. After years of having not a single problem with a bank card (VISA) my partner and I have now had a continuous stream of problems with cards not working or being accepted by machines.

 

Interesting as the "full fat" HSBC are still using Visa Debit (for now I guess)

 

I've had a Mastercard credit card with Creation for years and the only problem I have is it getting stopped periodically when I try to make a payment to Pharmacy2U, apparently it flags up "drugs" and gets stopped until I phone up LOL

[Reorte]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

High streets have been a peripheral at best part of most peoples' lives for many years now, and are IMHO mostly doomed, as are out of town malls and supermarkets.  In the future, there will be no shops, only delivery vans.  Gawdelpus if Hermes or UPS come out on top of this game...

Sounds bleak. Not saying you're wrong but (yet another) pretty unappealing vision of the future.

[MJI]

It is a case of Visa getting greedy.

 

Used to be 0.3% fee but since that fatefull day last year, the cap was removed for UK money transfer (I think)  fees.

 

Visa is now 5x higher at 1.5%

 

MasterCard were not as greedy, also Visa would not renegotiate so the big abandonment of VIsa in the UK.

 

It could have pushed Amazon from a very small profit to a very small loss, Amazon work on ery small margins, also Visa were hurting their small sellers.

 

I am on Amazons side on this.

[The Lurker]

23 hours ago, AndrewC said:

In related news. NatWest changed over all their credit cards from Visa to MC last year. Now they are dumping Visa for their debit cards as well. There were a few shops in the Netherlands last month that wouldn't take Visa as well. I have a feeling this is likely to force them to climb down on their fees somewhat. 

Interesting - I have a Natwest Visa debit and credit card. They've not told me this! Mind you the credit card expires next year anyway

[101]

1 hour ago, The Lurker said:

Interesting - I have a Natwest Visa debit and credit card. They've not told me this! Mind you the credit card expires next year anyway

 

I've got three Nat west credit cards (mainly because my partner used to work for NW and she used to get commission when "selling" credit cards ) and though one was always Mastercard - just in case I ever had problems with Visa - the other two have changed from Visa over the last year or so. Though at the moment my NW Debit card is still with Visa.

I have never noticed any difference between Mastercard or Visa when using them.

[woodenhead]

It's interesting the Natwest began with Mastercard, from their original setting up of the 'Access' car with Lloyds - remember those cards, managed out of Southend on Sea, now it has completely returned to the fold.

 

It used to be quite simple Visa was Barclays & TSB and I think Bank of Scotland, Mastercard (Access) was Natwest, Midland and Lloyds, then changes in banking law allowed to offer both types of credit card and some did.

 

I used to work for one of the companies, I remember when I first was able to compare the chargeback rules for Visa and Mastercard, I always felt Mastercard had the edge over it's merchants than Visa, small nuances that allowed us to Chargeback easier on disputed Mastercard transactions i.e. more in favour of the customer's interests than the merchant's.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

Sounds bleak. Not saying you're wrong but (yet another) pretty unappealing vision of the future.

I would rather be wrong than right about this, but from the retail industry's pov, I can see that disposing of the prime site rental outlets and concentrating activity on the big distribution depots will save overheads and increase profits.  These increased profits will of course be passed to us in the form or lower prices, yeah, right.  It isn't all that green, either, though I don't know how the cost of home delivery from the big depots stacks up against the cost of running the shops.  Possibly the larger out-of-town shops will survive as local distribuition depots.  But in 30 or so years' time, people will be remeniscing about having to go to the shops to get things as the pass the cemetery where I will resting...

 

'They' (the coalition of freemasons, illuminati, the Vatican, OPEC, and Bilderbergers that, according to my old dads' ravings, run everything) want us to stay at home glued to our screens so that we can be marketed at, and don't have time to think about anything else like individual freedom or alternative lifestyles.  I'm beginning to think he might have had a point...

[Michael Hodgson]

12 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

It isn't all that green, either, though I don't know how the cost of home delivery from the big depots stacks up against the cost of running the shops. 

Maybe.  But the cost and pollution of home delivery also needs to be offset against the cost & pollution of everybody driving to the shops, both the customers and the vans supplying shops.  There might not be much in it one way or the other.

[alastairq]

Amazon are touting their use of electric delivery vehicles.

It won't be long before most carriers will be using them [Cost savings, availability new, etc etc]

What goes around, comes around.....I can still recall that the use of electric commercial vehicles in use for local deliveries was the rule rather than the exception.  I can even remember my surprise at seeing a milkman using a petrol powered truck for deliveries...

 

Aaaah, the whine of the electric motors, and the chink of glass milk bottles.....

[The Johnster]

By that time, the vans and customers' cars will all be electric of course, and mostly driverless.  The equation is not an easy one, and it will be made more complex by the retailers' having a different view of what saves them money than their suppliers, customers, or society as a whole.

 

In the 'first world', societal apathy is already very high, as evidenced by the low turnouts for elections and plebiscites, and the close-call results, making a mockery of democracy when a government can be mandated by 20% of the electorate because only 35% of them bothered to vote.  Marketeers know that they can easily persuade people to buy anything they want us to buy in sufficient quantity to meet the desired profit level, and by and large we don't complain or even in some cases realise what is happening to us; we are content with the status quo (though I always preferred Pink Floyd) because it does not require any thought or action from us.  Individually, we may kick against the pr*cks, but collectively we behave predictably and controllably, and do not resist.  Our politial leaders are disposable figureheads and the real power lies hidden elsewhere, perhaps it always did; we accept because it's too much bother not too.

[Steamport Southport]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

High streets have been a peripheral at best part of most peoples' lives for many years now, and are IMHO mostly doomed, as are out of town malls and supermarkets.  In the future, there will be no shops, only delivery vans.  Gawdelpus if Hermes or UPS come out on top of this game...

 

Nah. The high street has never been busier in my lifetime. Retailers fail when they fall out of fashion, but normally someone else will replace them. That has always happened. What is dead is small independent retailers, mostly with good reason, they are usually extortionate and lacking in choice.

 

But there are now millions of people working in retail and hospitality. Vastly more than any time in the past.

 

Go to major cities like Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, etc. They are packed and now virtually 24 hour cities.

 

People get too nostalgic for the "good old days". They weren't good, just old.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

12 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Amazon are touting their use of electric delivery vehicles.

It won't be long before most carriers will be using them [Cost savings, availability new, etc etc]

What goes around, comes around.....I can still recall that the use of electric commercial vehicles in use for local deliveries was the rule rather than the exception.  I can even remember my surprise at seeing a milkman using a petrol powered truck for deliveries...

 

Aaaah, the whine of the electric motors, and the chink of glass milk bottles.....

Aaaah, the hungover 5.30am walk of shame home in the morning after getting off with the 8 pint goddess or her ugly sister in the pub the night before, and the grim nod of acknowledgement to another lad doing exactly the same thing in the opposite direction...

 

Followed by going up the pub later, convinced you've got away with it, to be greeted by a chorus of dog howling from your so-called mates.  Not to worry, you'll be doing it to one of them soon enough.

[Steamport Southport]

14 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Amazon are touting their use of electric delivery vehicles.

It won't be long before most carriers will be using them [Cost savings, availability new, etc etc]

What goes around, comes around.....I can still recall that the use of electric commercial vehicles in use for local deliveries was the rule rather than the exception.  I can even remember my surprise at seeing a milkman using a petrol powered truck for deliveries...

 

Aaaah, the whine of the electric motors, and the chink of glass milk bottles.....

 

They already have robots. Why do they need electric vehicles?

 

 

Next it's drones.

 

 

[alastairq]

Round here, farmers shoot drones....

[Hroth]

36 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Aaaah, the whine of the electric motors, and the chink of glass milk bottles.....

 

Getting stuck behind one at the end of its round, clinging to the centre of the road, batteries almost dead.....