Five years jail for theft from model shop.

[298]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I'm glad they prosecuted him.  It used to irritate me as an internal auditor that whenever we caught anybody with his fingers in the till, it was almost always hushed up.  The top brass would say "the adverse publicity would damage our business" - fire him, without references of course and maybe do a deal to get some proportion of the money back. Given the way others have got away with larger sums without getting a criminal record, I'm even more pleased that the court gave him a five year sentence.  

 

The article reads that he was only sentenced for the drug offences. 

 

I've worked for long enough and met enough people to know the type, and the red flags should have been spotted- drives a BMW, refers to social acquaintances as "the lads" and has previous history- not lime anyone I've ever met before in the hobby. Are Hatton's really that short of suitable staff with model railway experience? If I was of an age where I'd be looking for a winding down to retirent job and lived near a box shifter I'd definitely be asking them for a job.

[Dodger]

I'm surprised this chap got 5 years given that his defence said “A lengthy custodial sentence will have a significant impact on his mental state. He deeply regrets what he has done and expects to be punished.” Playing the mental health card seems to be getting very fashionable these days as a get out clause for not being responsible for your own actions. He deserves eveything he got.

Fair play to the judge.

Stay safe,

Roger  

 

[exmoordave]

He may have been sentenced to 5 years but he will never serve anything like that - 50% of that if he's unlucky.  Justice???

[Dodger]

Hi Exmoordave,

I suspect you are right but at least he didn't just get a slap on the wrist and community service.

Stay safe,

Roger

[Derekl]

32 minutes ago, exmoordave said:

He may have been sentenced to 5 years but he will never serve anything like that - 50% of that if he's unlucky.  Justice???

No, if he is lucky and co-operative. That is the system - the sentence is X, reduced to an extent if the prisoner is co-operative in ther sense of not causing any trouble and participating in rehabilitation programs. The parole board must also agree release and the released prisoner will be subject ot supervision. So it is jsutice, uinless for some reason you think that 5 years (subject to reduction as noted) is too little, but I don't suppose you have the faintest idea what an appropriate sentence is - here it was for dealing in drugs, rather than the theft. There are guidelines for sentencing which are fairly strict, and the actual sentence is subject to supervision by the Court of Appeal. There are lots of problems with the criminal justice system, but this isn't really one of them.

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, Derekl said:

There has to be an element of trust in any employment. Having an attitude that requires all to be watched all the time is not good for the atmosphere.

 

That is exactly right, especially for those that are perhaps out on the road all day. Just because they are out of sight, does not make them guilty of anything, except perhaps longer coffee breaks!

 

I had an employer hint that such people were thieves at a general meeting. I spoke up and said that I was not happy at that presumption and that if they had any evidence of that type of thing, they should pursue the individuals concerned and not make a general statement.

That boss decided to not respond, but it wasn't that much later, someone was asked to resign. His twin brother also resigned the same day!

[John M Upton]

12 hours ago, Dodger said:

I'm surprised this chap got 5 years given that his defence said “A lengthy custodial sentence will have a significant impact on his mental state. He deeply regrets what he has done and expects to be punished.” Playing the mental health card seems to be getting very fashionable these days as a get out clause for not being responsible for your own actions. He deserves eveything he got.

Fair play to the judge.

Stay safe,

Roger  

 

 

I was told of a story that in the 1990's at the local magistrates court, it was not uncommon for criminals who knew they were guilty of whatever to rock up in court in a wheelchair and/or crutches and get a shorter or suspended sentence than they would have due to their "injury/illness" which their defence brief duly laboured on ad nauseum.

 

The thing was, it was almost always the same wheelchair despite different occupants, it attended more court cases than Perry Mason...

 

Me personally, I have always been a Hanging Judge type...

[Oldddudders]

At the other end of the scale from deliberate fraud, we have incompetence, although the effect can be comparable. I recall an authenticated story about a senior secretary, a right dragon, who everyone tiptoed around. Sadly the poor dear broke her leg on a ski-ing holiday, and was off sick for quite a while.

 

So, instead of another sec stepping up for a couple of weeks, they now engaged someone to cover the post fully. She decided to go through all the desk drawers, and found no end of missing correspondence, including a few old cheques that should have been paid in.

 

I believe that senior sec's return to work was not a joyous occasion.  

[Michael Hodgson]

Well if she was an old battleaxe, I expect everybody else was delighted when she got her comeuppance!

[pete_mcfarlane]

20 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

It always amazes me that people think they aren't going to get caught. 

That's the thing with these people. They think they are smarter than they actually are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

 

17 hours ago, 298 said:

I've worked for long enough and met enough people to know the type, and the red flags should have been spotted- drives a BMW, refers to social acquaintances as "the lads" and has previous history- not lime anyone I've ever met before in the hobby. Are Hatton's really that short of suitable staff with model railway experience? If I was of an age where I'd be looking for a winding down to retirent job and lived near a box shifter I'd definitely be asking them for a job.

Given the size of their operations, I'd expect they were after people with experience of warehousing and distribution, rather than knowing anything about what's in the boxes they're selling.

 

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

At the other end of the scale from deliberate fraud, we have incompetence, although the effect can be comparable. I recall an authenticated story about a senior secretary, a right dragon, who everyone tiptoed around. Sadly the poor dear broke her leg on a ski-ing holiday, and was off sick for quite a while.

 

So, instead of another sec stepping up for a couple of weeks, they now engaged someone to cover the post fully. She decided to go through all the desk drawers, and found no end of missing correspondence, including a few old cheques that should have been paid in.

 

I believe that senior sec's return to work was not a joyous occasion.  

There was a secretary like that at Furlong House in Nottingham back in the 90s. Went on holiday and got sick with something that involved a month off.  The temp who replaced her sat around bored, as she got through all of the jobs by half ten each day. It took the temp 10 minutes to book a hire car rather than half a day of faffing around that this usually involved. 

[ikks]

the other side of this is that I went on holiday to Tasmania for three weeks a lot of years ago, before I left I told my my 2IC if she needed any help , just give me a call on my mobiie..............never heard a word all the time I was away. Got back and sat down with Isobel and asked any issues I need to know about, no she said we handled everything just fine.  Oh I thought, am I still going to have a job!!. Thank goodness my boss was happy to have me back................makes you wonder though!!.

However my management strategy was, if you get the right people it all works and I generally got it right but did make a couple horrendous stuff ups but in those days it was a lot easier to fix. Happy days.

Mike

Edited December 12, 2021 by ikks

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Given the size of their operations, I'd expect they were after people with experience of warehousing and distribution, rather than knowing anything about what's in the boxes they're selling.

 

 

Almost certainly. I would expect this individual has probably worked for a few companies in warehousing around the North West area. On paper he probably had a clean slate.

 

Those jobs are ten a penny. If you stick it for long enough you get a promotion as most people only stay for a few months and move on.

 

 

Jason

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Almost certainly. I would expect this individual has probably worked for a few companies in warehousing around the North West area. On paper he probably had a clean slate.

 

Those jobs are ten a penny. If you stick it for long enough you get a promotion as most people only stay for a few months and move on.

 

 

Jason

 

A colleague of mine trained to manage Convenience Stores.

 

About three years after he ended his training he ran into his old trainer who was astonished to find him still working in the sector, it appears that most dropped out after six months.

 

 

[rocor]

3 hours ago, ikks said:

 

However my management strategy was, if you get the right people it all works and I generally got it right but did make a couple horrendous stuff ups but in those days it was a lot easier to fix. Happy days.

Mike

 

Hiring Isobel? 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

On paper he probably had a clean slate.

From the newspaper "Williamson had developed a cocaine habit after being jailed for harassing an ex-girlfriend following a “toxic” relationship." Jail is jail. And being jailed for harassment is pretty serious. 

[rocor]

9 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

From the newspaper "Williamson had developed a cocaine habit after being jailed for harassing an ex-girlfriend following a “toxic” relationship." Jail is jail. And being jailed for harassment is pretty serious. 

 

It certainly is, if it means that it enables you to pick up a cocaine habit.

[johnofwessex]

 

52 minutes ago, fezza said:

It amazes me that he sent stuff to just two addresses which were members of his own close family - clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed!

 

Do Hattons really have 70 employees? - and they tell me there is no money in model railway retail!?

 

I suspect that as a very big (biggest?) player in the UK market its possible for them to make a reasonable profit.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

 

Do Hattons really have 70 employees? -

In 2018 they had 78 employees 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

Do Hattons really have 70 employees? - and they tell me there is no money in model railway retail!?

Big turnover, implied by needing that many staff, does not necessarily equate to big profits. They have a successful business, as do a few others in model retail, but I still doubt anyone gets seriously rich in our hobby

[Ian Fisher]

In period til June 2019  they had a turnover of 14.7 million pounds

 

down to 12.6 million pounds to June 2020

 

Profit in 2019 pre tax was 748,000 pounds  which equates to 5%

profit in 2020 pre tax was 493,000 pounds which equates to 3.9%

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

From the newspaper "Williamson had developed a cocaine habit after being jailed for harassing an ex-girlfriend following a “toxic” relationship." Jail is jail. And being jailed for harassment is pretty serious. 

 

"On paper" though. Very easy to make a fake CV and references, which is what I really mean. You can buy them online.

 

I'm sure many people on here has slightly embellished their CV or application forms to make it sound a bit better. Adding a qualification here and there*, or tweaking the amount of time you worked somewhere to close up any gaps.

 

*I doubt I can even remember my O Level results and I reckon the certificates are long gone. Never needed them since the day I left school. Most employers have just taken my word. Could I be lying that I scraped through with eight at C or above? Very easily. It could have been nine as I think I passed General Studies as well.  

 

 

Jason

[298]

9 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Given the size of their operations, I'd expect they were after people with experience of warehousing and distribution, rather than knowing anything about what's in the boxes they're selling.

 

Excellent. Just as long as they don't use SAP....

[Mad McCann]

At least we know why their second hand is so pricey now ... 

 

Davy.

[Darius43]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

"Adding a qualification here and there*, or tweaking the amount of time you worked somewhere to close up any gaps.

 

There is a (not very) fine line between creative writing and *fraud.  

 

Darius

[Michael Hodgson]

On 12/12/2021 at 22:34, Steamport Southport said:

 

I'm sure many people on here has slightly embellished their CV or application forms to make it sound a bit better. Adding a qualification here and there*, or tweaking the amount of time you worked somewhere to close up any gaps.

 

I had a boss who got fired for an inaccurate CV.

 

It wasn't what he'd added to his CV - he had indeed worked for all the firms he included - it was the sheer number of other places he'd also worked - and been fired from.  Hubert was a laughing stock in the industry.  New York should never have hired him, his deputy should have been promoted to the number one job in London, he was a decent bloke and very good at his job, unfortunately no longer with us.