GWR-fan Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: Because he is seriously lacking in knowledge of the real locos and is overly fixated on price. ..................................................................... However what is true is that his recent video reviews have been a lot better, he seems to have acquired more real railway knowledge leading to less silly mistakes and although he still harps on about price, he does in his conclusions also acknowledge that in all other respects a model can still be a good one. ................................................................................ I fail to see how lack of prototypical knowledge impacts on the credibility of a review of a model reviewer. Unlike many he is not fixated on a rivet being misplaced or overlooked and I do not believe that he actually rates the model when comparing to the prototype. He does give some detail as to the history of the model represented and like many others who refer to online information or actual information on the manufacturer's packaging there may be inaccuracies quoted. However, how this refers to his credibility with actually reviewing the model is beyond me. Apart from those who simply have to have the latest releases no matter what the cost, I feel that most of us do use the cost of the model as a guide when purchasing. Sam does regularly criticise the major manufacturers over the price of their models but he does have justification. The Hornby 12 wheel restaurant/dining car and autocoach are two examples of price gouging. Apart from the replacement of the original plastic wheelsets for metal versions, the models' lineage may be traced back to their Airfix/Dapol roots. Surely the tooling costs were amortised decades ago and yet these models are as expensive as the latest tooled very highly detailed coaches from Hornby. Also the original dining car came with a spare underframe without the sill cutouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wairoa Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Big fan of Sam's Trains reviews. The majority of reviewers out there read more like product endorsements than reviews. Sam is not afraid of calling out all the manufacturers. I think there is a lot envy directed at Sam. However he seems to understand that ultimately this is all about having fun something that many reviewers seem to forget. 3 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, phil-b259 said: Because he is seriously lacking in knowledge of the real locos and is overly fixated on price. In reality most modellers do not have that much flexibility on what they can acquire - it doesn't matter that the Bachmann 1P is a much better loco than the EFE rail O2, or a Hornby Pecket is cheaper - if modelling the Isle of Wight then the 1P or a Packet is clearly of no use. Thats before we get onto his 'challenges' some of which have negative H&S implications if copied by children. People also dislike the fact that despite all RTR manufacturers recommending NOT to run their models on track plonked on carpets - his 'layout' is just that. However what is true is that his recent video reviews have been a lot better, he seems to have acquired more real railway knowledge leading to less silly mistakes and although he still harps on about price, he does in his conclusions also acknowledge that in all other respects a model can still be a good one. His recent ones on his Gladstone build have also been very good and if thats the direction he is going in then he might get less critism. Well that's me telt then! I still fail to see why a dude I'd never heard of before some made for TV guff gets lambasted as some sort of hobby antichrist. Jeez, I did stupid crap with my early train sets and, breaking news, do my own research into whichever region/timeline/operations I'm looking to replicate at 4mm to the foot. But then I haven't broadcast any of that. Because "won't someone think of the children!" C6T. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Classsix T said: Well that's me telt then! I still fail to see why a dude I'd never heard of before some made for TV guff gets lambasted as some sort of hobby antichrist. Jeez, I did stupid crap with my early train sets and, breaking news, do my own research into whichever region/timeline/operations I'm looking to replicate at 4mm to the foot. But then I haven't broadcast any of that. Because "won't someone think of the children!" C6T. The point is there are those who are into models railways - i.e. making a model of a railway including full scenic treatment, realistic stud of locos and rolling stock etc) and those who have a train set or simply play with model trains without any clear objective in mind. Sams 'layout' and approach squarely falls into the latter category with him basically buying locos because he likes the look of them rather than with any coherent plan in mind. The reviews are similarly skewed towards a generalised approach with locos from completely separate companies and eras compared against each other when in reality a true railway modellers biggest constraint is what motive power ran in the area they are modelling not price, build quality etc. Now don't get me wrong - both can produce great joy to the owner / user but you must acknowledge the prime motivations are very different - and so too are the yardsticks by which products are judged for each type of user. My impression is that the majority of RMWeb Members are building accurate model railways - and as such the scattergun approach plus seeming focus on things like price of Sam is simply not useful and rather irritating. Edited February 17, 2022 by phil-b259 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, GWR-fan said: I fail to see how lack of prototypical knowledge impacts on the credibility of a review of a model reviewer. Unlike many he is not fixated on a rivet being misplaced or overlooked and I do not believe that he actually rates the model when comparing to the prototype. He does give some detail as to the history of the model represented and like many others who refer to online information or actual information on the manufacturer's packaging there may be inaccuracies quoted. However, how this refers to his credibility with actually reviewing the model is beyond me. Apart from those who simply have to have the latest releases no matter what the cost, I feel that most of us do use the cost of the model as a guide when purchasing. Sam does regularly criticise the major manufacturers over the price of their models but he does have justification. The Hornby 12 wheel restaurant/dining car and autocoach are two examples of price gouging. Apart from the replacement of the original plastic wheelsets for metal versions, the models' lineage may be traced back to their Airfix/Dapol roots. Surely the tooling costs were amortised decades ago and yet these models are as expensive as the latest tooled very highly detailed coaches from Hornby. Also the original dining car came with a spare underframe without the sill cutouts. I think there have been occasions where has has praised 'nice features' or nicely modelled detail, when said things while pretty and nicely moulded aren't actually accurate. The fixation of price doesn't bother me, unless very lucky I suspect over the last 12 months we've all been fixated on price as they've become increasingly eye watering. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, phil-b259 said: ............................................................. My impression is that the majority of RMWeb Members are building accurate model railways - and as such the scattergun approach plus seeming focus on things like price of Sam is simply not useful and rather irritating. Somehow, I see Sam's target audience as not relying on RMWeb members to get his regular monetised return. Did you miss the point that Sam purchases a wide variety of models for the sake of reviewing them not because he has little to no knowledge of what types were used by specific railways? I believe that he has sufficient knowledge to be able to actually identify a railway operator by the livery. Sam is a reviewer, not a modeller. If Sam followed your logic then all his locomotives and rolling stock would be native to the Island of Sodor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 hours ago, MrTea said: I know Sam’s Trains has a bit of a marmite reputation here on RMWeb but his new video has quite a good segment on the mystery surrounding the disappearance of the proposed ‘Trains on Film’ range: (skip to 35 secs in) The ‘Missing Cat’ posters all over Sam’s loft are a nice touch! TBF, on this showing, he's improving considerably, and yes, I really like the posters, too! I note the track on the intro sequence is ballasted so maybe Sam has some surplus carpet that Hornby could sweep this issue under. John 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, scumcat said: I think this statement does rather a lot of us a disservice and reinforces division in our hobby. no wonder I would never join a model railway club. Only if you ignore the previous paragraph in the post you quoted and take that one in isolation.... Phil said (in effect) that there's people who have model railways and there's people who have train sets. They aren't the same thing (despite what some prominent but self-effacing people in the first category call their superb miniature empires), but they are essentially just variations in how far individuals want to take the same basic interest. The real difference (for me) is that everything on a model railway should go together in the way it would have on the real thing in a chosen location/period, irrespective of how well it's done, whereas if Rule One takes priority over all else, it's a train set, irrespective of how extensive, sophisticated or well-made it might be. There's plenty of room in the hobby, on RMWeb, and in most clubs for both approaches, for everything in between and, in the case of RMWeb, for loads of interesting/amusing stuff that has nothing to do with either! John Edited February 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, phil-b259 said: My impression is that the majority of RMWeb Members are building accurate model railways - and as such the scattergun approach plus seeming focus on things like price of Sam is simply not useful and rather irritating. You don't have to watch his videos if you don't like them. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamThomas Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I do agree Sam is a bit Marmite. One thing is certain though - he enjoys himself & can be quite entertaining at times. Now, AFAIK Sam earns some cash (maybe his living) from his clips, which may be why he gets some flack & his "layout" is temporay. I stand to be corrected. Like Sam - watch his clips. Dislike Sam - move along, nothing to see here. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 I wonder if Hornby will ask for this thread to be deleted as they try to erase the whole episode from their history as they have done with their website and you tube launch video! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, MrTea said: I know Sam’s Trains has a bit of a marmite reputation here on RMWeb but his new video has quite a good segment on the mystery surrounding the disappearance of the proposed ‘Trains on Film’ range: (skip to 35 secs in) The ‘Missing Cat’ posters all over Sam’s loft are a nice touch! Not getting into the Sams trains thing . I am a fan and great he goes on about pricing because thats the major issue in Model Railways at moment . More power to his elbow. However the key point is that Hornby are a source of ridicule over "Titgate" when Sams trains is hanging up posters looking for missing cats (out of the bag). This just shows how much of a misjudgement this has been . The whole Trains on Film thing has turned into a bit of a farce . Edited February 17, 2022 by Legend 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Markwj said: I wonder if Hornby will ask for this thread to be deleted as they try to erase the whole episode from their history as they have done with their website and you tube launch video! There are 'Trains on film' snippets of the Hornby launch video in other non-Hornby youtube videos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) I think some people here, and Sam, are missing a potentially very important point in all of this. Hornby have removed various references in their media to 'Trains on Film' and in all truth we don't know why because the reason is not in the public arena. Those of us who have followed the story (unlike Sam it would seem) have drawn the conclusion that there has been some sort of action on the part of Studio Canal to defend their rights in respect of media and film which they own. That is nothing to do with Rapido beyond the known fact that they have drawn SC's attention to what Hornby were doing and have presumably expressed some displeasure having obtained an exclusive licence from SC in respect of the Titifield Thunderbolt. Beyond that we don't have a clue what has happened although it is not unreasonable to surmise that Studio Canal have taken some sort of action against Hornby. But we don't know the detail of any such action and for all the speculation which we, or Uncle Tom Cobley and all, might come up with we probably never will know that detail; it might possibly even contain a ban on Hornby mentioning the subject in public? All we know is what we have seen, or rather can no longer see on Hornby's own electronic media, nothing beyond that - anything else is pure, possibly pointless, speculation. Time to get back to baked beans? Edited February 17, 2022 by The Stationmaster 3 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I think some people here, and Sam, are missing a potentially very important point in all of this. Hornby have removed various references in their media to 'Trains on Film' and in all truth we don't know why because the reason is not in the public arena. Those of us who have followed the story (unlike Sam it would seem) have drawn the conclusion that there has been some sort of action on the part of Studio Canal to defend their rights in respect of media and film which they own. That is nothing to do with Rapido beyond the known fact that they have drawn SC's attention to what Hornby were doing and have presumably expressed some displeasure having obtained an exclusive licence from SC in respect of the Titifield Thunderbolt. Beyond that we don't have a clue what has happened although it is not unreasonable to surmise that Studio Canal have taken some sort of action against Hornby. But we don't know the detail of any such action and for all the speculation which we, or Uncle Tom Cobley and all, might come up with we probably never will know that detail; it might possibly even contain a ban on Hornby mentioning the subject in public? All we know is what we have seen, or rather can no longer see on Hornby's own electronic media, nothing beyond that - anything else is pure, possibly pointless, speculation. Time to get back to baked beans? I've never been clear if people could order "Trains on Film" sets or not , but surely if they were available for sale then they need to tell you they can non longer fulfill. There is also the issue of Lion as well (the cat that was out the bag) . Are they continuing with this model or not ? I think I'm correct in saying without "Trains on Film" Lion doesnt actually appear in the catalogue at all . Now if Hornby want to proceed with Lion surely its in their interest to say so as soon as possible , before folk order from Rapido (if they havent already). But agree we will never know the real details behind this ............would have made great telly ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) Hornby may say nothing, but I would be surprised if Rapido don't make some kind of statement as and when the time is right, which could well give a lot more insight. Edited February 17, 2022 by Titan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 I think you miss the point @Titan, the disagreement is between the film company and Hornby. I do agree though that we are unlikely to hear more from Hornby. A statement in th cease and desist letter to the effect of "any further public mention of the Titfield Thunderbolt will result in us taking legal action." essentially gags Hornby - even if they did want to admit public that they had fouled up. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 56 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Time to get back to baked beans? Yay! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, Legend said: I've never been clear if people could order "Trains on Film" sets or not , but surely if they were available for sale then they need to tell you they can non longer fulfill. There is also the issue of Lion as well (the cat that was out the bag) . Are they continuing with this model or not ? I think I'm correct in saying without "Trains on Film" Lion doesnt actually appear in the catalogue at all . Now if Hornby want to proceed with Lion surely its in their interest to say so as soon as possible , before folk order from Rapido (if they havent already). But agree we will never know the real details behind this ............would have made great telly ! If they have taken any orders - be it direct or from retailers - they will obviously have to tell them that the are unable to accept those orders or will cancel them (choice of words could be important). But equally we don't know what Hornby are deciding, or not deciding, to do so they might just be 'hopeful' and will wait & see - again, we don't know. The situation with 'Lion' is an oddity in all of this as like you I had the understanding that they announced they were going to make it but as far as i can make out they have not included in the 2022 range in the obvious place (or anywhere else). Nothing to stop them making it, as 'Lion' apart from duplication but maybe they were pinning their commercial hopes on the two train packs? Now for baked beans - which I had with a couple of burgers for my evening meal on Tuesday, Branston beans of course 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: The situation with 'Lion' is an oddity in all of this as like you I had the understanding that they announced they were going to make it but as far as i can make out they have not included in the 2022 range in the obvious place (or anywhere else). Nothing to stop them making it, as 'Lion' apart from duplication but maybe they were pinning their commercial hopes on the two train packs? Lion appears in the (overpriced because it's Hornby) printed catalogue in the "Trains on Film" pages (alongside the TT pack), but Lion was available only in the "Lady with the Lamp" pack, not a separate item. Catalogues are still on the shelf in my local Tesco, and I left them there... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 Had an email from Gaugemaster, and they are still listing the Trains on Film packs as available to pre-order from them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, JohnR said: Had an email from Gaugemaster, and they are still listing the Trains on Film packs as available to pre-order from them. As were a few other retailers, who appear to have stopped doing so. Maybe it's just a matter of Gaugemaster not yet having updated their website? AIUI, Hornby hadn't accepted advance orders for them either from dealers or for direct sales. John 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Not sure if SC would inpise a total gagging order, actually surprised they havn't insisted on some sort of statement that 'these were not approved licensed items and on discussion with the license holder we have decided to withdraw them'. Licenced items are available from the licenced holders approved supplier. Etc 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said: Not sure if SC would inpise a total gagging order, actually surprised they havn't insisted on some sort of statement that 'these were not approved licensed items and on discussion with the license holder we have decided to withdraw them'. Licenced items are available from the licenced holders approved supplier. Etc The reason that some sort of retraction statement is often not included or indeed permitted is that this gives the infringer more air time on the back the infringement and secondly and perhaps more importantly can provoke a David and Goliath impression with the "big and powerful" owner of the rights being painted in a very bad light in the view of the public. You can see the tabloid headlines: International film giant prevents British Toy maker from...... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said: I think you miss the point @Titan, the disagreement is between the film company and Hornby. I do agree though that we are unlikely to hear more from Hornby. A statement in th cease and desist letter to the effect of "any further public mention of the Titfield Thunderbolt will result in us taking legal action." essentially gags Hornby - even if they did want to admit public that they had fouled up. Not at all, I very much doubt that Studio Canal will say anything for the reasons outlined in the above posts. However Rapido may wish to say something (even if it is just "serves you right" to Hornby!) unless Studio Canal forbids them. Edited February 17, 2022 by Titan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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