Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[Porcy Mane]

Although it's fun to speculate; as Mike has already pointed out, non of us are party to what has gone on between these three parties.

 

Those at Hornby may perversely be glad of all the speculation and negative coverage aimed at Titgate as it diverts attention away from the very shoddy way they are treating the majority of their retailers.

 

P  (with my serious head on for a few seconds)

 

 

 

[MarkSG]

15 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Because he is seriously lacking in knowledge of the real locos and is overly fixated on price.

 

And because he runs his trains on the floor, with only a short and fairly generic scenic section, and has no interest in modelling a specific location and/or era.

 

In other words, he is a typical "train set" consumer, albeit with more than the average amount of train set space and, probably, more than the average train set consumer's spending power. And he is also, probably, a better reflection of the bulk of Hornby's market than most of us here. 

 

That doesn't mean his reviews aren't useful. You don't need to be an expert in the prototype to be able to assess the build quality and reliability of a model. And his dodgy trackwork is probably a better reflection of what most train set buyers run their trains on than the professionaly constructed test tracks at the magazine publishers. It's easy to dismiss his (relatively minor) criticsm of the Oxford GER van for derailing on an S-bend, on the basis that none of us would be so crass as to have track that shonky. But, y'know, a bet a lot of his viewers have track like that, or worse, and that's important information to them. And his point, that the van is too light, is relevant even to a modeller. I'm certainly going to stick some weight on mine when it arrives.

 

Also, despite having a set-up that's very much in train set territory, he isn't, unlike many train set customers, a blinkered Hornby diehard. He reviews products from all the main manufacturers, and even many of the smaller ones. And that's doing a valuable service to those manufacturers by introducing their products to people who don't consider themselves modellers, and don't read the modelling media, and aren't found on RMweb, but do like playing with trains. So you can look down your nose at Sam and his trains if you want. But I bet Hornby's marketing department don't.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

.......if Rule One takes priority over all else, it's a train set, irrespective of how extensive, sophisticated or well-made it might be. 

Ouch, now that is a statement that reinforces division in the hobby.

[woodenhead]

Can we not have a spillover from the ongoing youtube debate thread into other threads please - it's like a virus once it begins.

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

 

Not at all, I very much doubt that Studio Canal will say anything for the reasons outlined in the above posts.  However Rapido may wish to say something (even if it is just "serves you right" to Hornby!) unless Studio Canal forbids them.

 

 

Your reply seems to suggest that Rapido know a lot more than we do.  The reality is probably quite different.

 

We as modellers see this as a battle between Rapido and Hornby with SC acting as judge/arbiter.  In legal terms however the situation is very different. 

 

Thus far Rapido have suffered no substantive losses as a result of Hornby's actions - even if they have alerted SC of the potential issue. 

 

Up to today SC is the sole victim of Hornby's actions due to the infringement of IP, Copywrite and (potentially) Trademark - this through the web advertising, catalogue, Video. press releases etc..  SC have (we assume) taken action.  They are under no obligation to have said anything to Rapido and probably will not say much above, "sorted" although probably in more legal terms.  Rapido are very unlikely to have been given a blow by blow account of what has been going on.  

 

It would only be if Hornby had actually brought models to market that Rapido would be able to demonstrate substantive loss and their case would have been against SC for failing to protect Rapido's sole licence. 

[rapidoandy]

3 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

Your reply seems to suggest that Rapido know a lot more than we do.  The reality is probably quite different.

 

We as modellers see this as a battle between Rapido and Hornby with SC acting as judge/arbiter.  In legal terms however the situation is very different. 

 

Thus far Rapido have suffered no substantive losses as a result of Hornby's actions - even if they have alerted SC of the potential issue. 

 

Up to today SC is the sole victim of Hornby's actions due to the infringement of IP, Copywrite and (potentially) Trademark - this through the web advertising, catalogue, Video. press releases etc..  SC have (we assume) taken action.  They are under no obligation to have said anything to Rapido and probably will not say much above, "sorted" although probably in more legal terms.  Rapido are very unlikely to have been given a blow by blow account of what has been going on.  

 

It would only be if Hornby had actually brought models to market that Rapido would be able to demonstrate substantive loss and their case would have been against SC for failing to protect Rapido's sole licence. 

Respectfully - that is far from the truth.

[Andy Hayter]

I stand corrected.

[MrTea]

I don’t think there’s a ‘cat in hell’s chance of us seeing a Lion model from Hornby in 2022. 
 

…I’ll get my coat

 

Ian

[SamThomas]

7 hours ago, Markwj said:

I wonder if Hornby will ask for this thread to be deleted

If they did they would be seen to be publicly admitting they had to go to A & E to have a bullet removed from one of their collective executive feet.

[Gilbert]

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The real difference (for me) is that everything on a model railway should go together in the way it would have on the real thing in a chosen location/period, irrespective of how well it's done, whereas if Rule One takes priority over all else, it's a train set, irrespective of how extensive, sophisticated or well-made it might be. 

I do have a slightly different approach...I like plausibility......and I think the quality of modelling, presentation and movement is just as important. I run a rail blue Class 24 with some of my Railfreight wagons - wrong I know...but nobody has been overtly critical at shows...and I am a follower of my own version of Rule 1..

Chris

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, confused said:

Ouch, now that is a statement that reinforces division in the hobby.

You clearly didn't get as far as reading the final paragraph of my post.

 

Regards

 

John

[Gilbert]

18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

What gets my goat is seeing 1970s diesels racing around with 1920s wagons carrying the liveries of 1950s road hauIage firms that never owned a railway wagon during their entire existence.

What one does in the privacy of one's own home etc...but not ideal at a show.....but each to their own I suppose.....

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, confused said:

11 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

.......if Rule One takes priority over all else, it's a train set, irrespective of how extensive, sophisticated or well-made it might be. 

 

2 hours ago, confused said:

Ouch, now that is a statement that reinforces division in the hobby.

 

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

If somebody mixes models together randomly and runs them around with no regard to how things are done on real railways, what else can it be called other than a train set?

Now thats what I call doubling down on a position.

 

Ive seen big holes dug, but this was a Lochnager crater….

 

one of my favourite layouts I see often on here is Charwelton… into the 1980’s… I would never call it a trainset..but the real thing closed in March 1963, so nothing in BR Blue went through it.. yet the layout is set in the 1980’s… so everything is rule 1, random, ethereal but a trainset it is not.

 

With a layout, you can change the stock anytime, thats one of the easier tasks.

Edited February 17, 2022 by adb968008

[Not Jeremy]

Quote

What gets my goat is seeing 1970s diesels racing around with 1920s wagons carrying the liveries of 1950s road hauIage firms that never owned a railway wagon during their entire existence.

 

You really should keep away from those Gauge One layouts

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

Now thats what I call doubling down on a position.

 

Ive seen big holes dug, but this was a Lochnager crater….

 

one of my favourite layouts I see often on here is Charwelton… into the 1980’s… I would never call it a trainset..but the real thing closed in March 1963, so nothing in BR Blue went through it.. yet the layout is set in the 1980’s… so everything is random, ethereal but a trainset it is not.

But that's just stretching railway history by a couple of decades. All the ingredients look right together, and as they might well have appeared had the station not closed. Plausible, to quote an earlier post.

 

My point was (and still is) that if Rule One is allowed/chosen to be the only rule in force, that history has effectively been put through the  shredder! 

 

John  

Edited February 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Roy Langridge]

Can't we just let everybody enjoy our hobby as they see fit, including Sam? It is, after all, one of the best, yet diverse, hobbies there is.

 

Roy

[GWR-fan]

I would look at the issue of what is a model and what is not.  We could have a "scale" model railway that attempts to recreate in scale a particular railway operating company in a specific setting within a specified timeframe.  We could have a model of a railway where one's preference is to run assorted stock on a scenicked layout which may not reflect the scenery found in a particular part of the country.   We,  in general,  have an assorted range of locomotives and rolling stock and it would seem that to be classified as a model railroader then we must have multiple layouts,  each depicting the specific area and period in time to reflect our models otherwise we are classified in the train set category.

 

For the most part what the "scale" railway modeller ignores is the compression required by necessity to represent the area he models and just as importantly the "narrow" gauge track that he uses to represent a standard gauge railway.   Over the years I have visited many people's layouts with many with beautiful scenery and trackwork and yet surprisingly the layout that I remember most fondly was a large layout that was basically track laid on bare boards with no ballast then the whole layout painted over in a cheap paling fence brown colour paint.  The "layout" featured just a turntable,  an engine shed and a couple of basic stations and signal boxes.  The major reasons I liked the layout was firstly the friendliness of the elderly owner of the railway and secondly,  everything worked perfectly.

[Phil Parker]

And all this is relevant to the title of this thread how? 

 

While this is an interesting discussion, please can we return to the topic, or the thread will have to be locked. 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Respectfully - that is far from the truth.

And that’s all we need to know…….now hurry up and get both my full sets in the market please, I just finished the road roller for the duel 

[Gilbert]

22 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

And all this is relevant to the title of this thread how? 

 

While this is an interesting discussion, please can we return to the topic, or the thread will have to be locked. 

Sorry Phil.

[Markwj]

So when is the next show Hornby will be attending - Scotrail?? Will someone politely ask on the stand what has happened to put us out of our misery?

[PhilJ W]

I don't think we will ever know what exactly went on between SC and Hornby and quite frankly I don't care. 

[Classsix T]

29 minutes ago, Markwj said:

So when is the next show Hornby will be attending - Scotrail?? Will someone politely ask on the stand what has happened to put us out of our misery?

"No comment" would likely be the phrase du jour at Jockrail then!

 

C6T. 

[newbryford]

41 minutes ago, Markwj said:

So when is the next show Hornby will be attending - Scotrail?? Will someone politely ask on the stand what has happened to put us out of our misery?

 

Hornby aren't listed as going to Glasgow.

Maybe they don't trust their APT to make the journey that far without breaking/falling off/burning up........

[Classsix T]

35 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I don't think we will ever know what exactly went on between SC and Hornby and quite frankly I don't care. 

I would quite like to know actually, out of curiosity and a passing interest in how IP law works. 

 

I've a friend who is a professional photographer and he spends an inordinate amount of his time chasing-up people (including at least one legal company) who think right-clicking his images for their own purposes is fair game.

 

The second post in this thread literally said it all and I'd be fascinated to learn how anyone at Margate green lit this. Unlikely of course, but I'd love to know!

 

C6T.