Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[The Stationmaster]

One interesting thing about tiers is that it doesn't seem to have any relevance when Hornby are getting shot of old stock from the warehouse.  So I wonder what does apply in that case?  Currently various items of old stock are being advertised at considerably reduced (from the original RRP) prices from a number of retailers at least one of whom I know to be in tier 1 while another I know to be is in tier 3.  

 

Several other retailers are also advertising the same item at similar (within a few £s) price points online while one has one has item at the original RRP minus 10%,  I can understand the variation of a few £s - basically a band of around 10-15% - when it comes to something like what appears to be a clearance of surplus stock because different retailers manage their businesses and cash flow in different ways.  But what happened to the tier system in this case or was the first offer made to shops at the top of the tier pile before it was extended downwards for what remained unsold?  Or was it a general offer to avoid accusation of the sort of fire sales that went on under the previous management?

[Legend]

It is interesting that Hattons , who we think is in Tier 3 , have just sent me an email featuring 2 LNER Azumas including the Celebrating Scotland one , APT , Class 60 and the new A1 with metal running plate Doncaster . So can we conclude from that that all Hornby Direct , Tier 1 and Tier 2 orders have been fulfilled and there’s stock left over for the plebs in Tier 3 . In which case might we better waiting to see if there are further discounts as anything that reaches Tier 3 looks like excess stock . 

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, Legend said:

In which case might we better waiting to see if there are further discounts as anything that reaches Tier 3 looks like excess stock . 

 

What did you say the other week that the British aren't preoccupied with price?

[Legend]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

What did you say the other week that the British aren't preoccupied with price?

Looking for value for money . 

[andyman7]

It's rather presumptuous to assume that anything that reaches Tier 3 is 'excess stock'. It means that it is available to order from stock, meaning that initial Tier 1 and 2 orders have presumably been fulfilled without rationing, which was the original gripe.   

[Legend]

14 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It's rather presumptuous to assume that anything that reaches Tier 3 is 'excess stock'. It means that it is available to order from stock, meaning that initial Tier 1 and 2 orders have presumably been fulfilled without rationing, which was the original gripe.   

 

OK , look at it from the point of view that there's more than enough stock to go around  , rather than there's a limited supply . Good stuff . Agree ideally all items should get to Tier 3 , but thats not the way its been going recently is it ?

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 hours ago, Legend said:

It is interesting that Hattons , who we think is in Tier 3 , have just sent me an email featuring 2 LNER Azumas including the Celebrating Scotland one , APT , Class 60 and the new A1 with metal running plate Doncaster . So can we conclude from that that all Hornby Direct , Tier 1 and Tier 2 orders have been fulfilled and there’s stock left over for the plebs in Tier 3 . In which case might we better waiting to see if there are further discounts as anything that reaches Tier 3 looks like excess stock . 

 

14 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It's rather presumptuous to assume that anything that reaches Tier 3 is 'excess stock'. It means that it is available to order from stock, meaning that initial Tier 1 and 2 orders have presumably been fulfilled without rationing, which was the original gripe.   

 

13 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

OK , look at it from the point of view that there's more than enough stock to go around  , rather than there's a limited supply . Good stuff . Agree ideally all items should get to Tier 3 , but thats not the way its been going recently is it ?

 

Even more proof, if proof were needed, that the tier system is an absolute shambles, it's easier to pick the Grand National winner than to work out where you can guarantee to get your model from.

 

Mike.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Even more proof, if proof were needed, that the tier system is an absolute shambles, it's easier to pick the Grand National winner than to work out where you can guarantee to get your model from.

Hmm. This year's National winner was 50-1! And the winning jockey's cousin writes questions for Only Connect....

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It's rather presumptuous to assume that anything that reaches Tier 3 is 'excess stock'. It means that it is available to order from stock, meaning that initial Tier 1 and 2 orders have presumably been fulfilled without rationing, which was the original gripe.   

Maybe.

 

2 hours ago, Legend said:

 

OK , look at it from the point of view that there's more than enough stock to go around  , rather than there's a limited supply . Good stuff . Agree ideally all items should get to Tier 3 , but thats not the way its been going recently is it ?

Hence my post a bit further up this page where a load of older stuff has recently appeared at much reduced prices (near 50% off in some cases) compared with its original RRP from a range of retailers - including Hattons (other retailers are available).  So that was almost certainly surplus stock warehouse 'shake-out' and it will be interesting to see the inventory figures when the annual report emerges.

 

If Hattons are in Tier 3 (which seemed to be the case at one time - has it changed?) the arrival there of very new stock might be telling us something about Hornby's current state.  they definitely need money so are they more quickly pushing unsold items out of the warehouse and why is that?  Have they over-ordered from the factories, have existing pre-orders been cancelled for some reason, or have they simply promoted Hattons from where we assumed them to be?

[The Hawk]

I have to admit, this whole tier system has put me off Hornby.

I'm relatively new to modelling and my first Hornby pre-order has turned out to be a bit of a farce. Item due June 2021, currently scheduled for 2023 and I've no idea which tier my chosen supplier is in and whether or not they will get any stock if and when it eventually turns up.

Its not so much the 2 year delay that bothers me, it's more not knowing whether or not I will receive the item at the end of it. I am tempted to cancel my pre-order and choose an alternative item. I certainly won't be rushing to pre-order another Hornby item and, even for in stock items, if it's a straight choice between a Hornby item or another manufacturer, then I'm much more likely to opt for the other manufacturer as, at the present time, I just don't have confidence in Hornby.

[RedgateModels]

I think we have to accept the fact, like it or not that if we MUST have the new shiny R1234 from Hornby we have to pre-order it from them. Staying loyal to your local shop is a fine thing, but you have to accept that you may miss out.

[Roy Langridge]

39 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

I think we have to accept the fact, like it or not that if we MUST have the new shiny R1234 from Hornby we have to pre-order it from them. Staying loyal to your local shop is a fine thing, but you have to accept that you may miss out.

 

Nail hit firmly on head by hammer. And that is why I will not purchase Hornby again until they have a system that supports the model shops properly, and by that I mean all of them.

 

Those same model shops kept Hornby afloat during its lean time and got no thanks for it, in fact quite the opposite.

 

I keep half an eye on this thread in the hope that one day I see that change reported. Other than that I now ignore the Hornby threads for any model I did not already own prior to my embargo.

 

Roy

[woodenhead]

 

47 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

I think we have to accept the fact, like it or not that if we MUST have the new shiny R1234 from Hornby we have to pre-order it from them. Staying loyal to your local shop is a fine thing, but you have to accept that you may miss out.

A rather perverse method of encouraging people to your online offering - typically it's the best price/rate online that draws you in, here it's the worst price but most chance of purchasing.

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

If Hattons are in Tier 3 (which seemed to be the case at one time - has it changed?) the arrival there of very new stock might be telling us something about Hornby's current state.  they definitely need money so are they more quickly pushing unsold items out of the warehouse and why is that?  Have they over-ordered from the factories, have existing pre-orders been cancelled for some reason, or have they simply promoted Hattons from where we assumed them to be?

Why would  Tier 3 shop only get stuff if it was being 'pushed out' due to 'over ordering'? Everyone puts in their orders, but Tier 3 gets allocated only after Tiers 1 and 2. They still get stuff at around the same time. 

[Robin Brasher]

On 03/05/2022 at 08:27, Phil Parker said:

 

And how is any of that about the Tiers system? Don't complain about people going off topic and then do so in a spectacular way yourself.

Sorry if my post about the tier system appeared to be off topic.  The point I was trying to make is that Hattons appears to be in Tier 3  (although the source of my information is from posts in RM Web so this may be incorrect) and my local model shop is in Tier 2 as verified by the manager.

 

Despite this Hattons received the R60032 BR Conflat A. Tri-ang about a week before my local model shop whereas I expected it to be the other way round

 

It is possible that all model shops receive their allocation at the same time but if there is a shortage shops in tier 1 are more likely to get their allocation than shops in tiers 2 -3.

.

I think that at present we are in a buyer's market for Hornby wagons as their wagons have not been the firm's strong point since Tri-ang started producing wagons in the 1950s so the customer does not need to pre-order them. The customer can simply wait until the items appear and then order them from whoever provides the best service. 

[Robin Brasher]

4 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

I think we have to accept the fact, like it or not that if we MUST have the new shiny R1234 from Hornby we have to pre-order it from them. Staying loyal to your local shop is a fine thing, but you have to accept that you may miss out.

I am sorry if I am going off topic again but, based on my experience with the R60032 BR Conflat A. Tri-ang I would not be confident of receiving anything in one piece directly from Hornby.

 

It appears that the box was damaged in the post between Hornby and my local model shop. If this is the case it would not have reached me in perfect condition if I had ordered it directly from Hornby.

 

All the other models I have received from Hattons, Rails or Kernow have arrived with the boxes undamaged so it looks like the model shops check the boxes for damage first and then pack them securely so that they arrive with the consumer in good condition.

 

This is one reason why I would order from a tier 2 model shop rather than directly from Hornby which I assume is in tier 1.

 

 

[Phil Parker]

19 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I am sorry if I am going off topic again but, based on my experience with the R60032 BR Conflat A. Tri-ang I would not be confident of receiving anything in one piece directly from Hornby.

 

Then stop doing it.  There is someone called @Robin Brasher who will be upset as he doesn't like thread drift.

 

On 03/05/2022 at 08:11, Robin Brasher said:

I suggest that all the posts about cashing cheques etc should be deleted as it makes it difficult to look back at relevant posts.  In the past I have had to mark posts that provide useful and relevant information about a topic.

 

A single model has been damaged in transit. This is sad and annoying, but doesn't speak of a larger problem related to the Tiers system, the subject of this thread. It doesn't matter what Tier the shop you buy from is in, if the model is damaged, you hand it back and they give you a replacement, then send the broken one back to Hornby.

[AY Mod]

4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Those same model shops kept Hornby afloat during its lean time

 

I sometimes think there's some kind of tier system applied to the magazines too; sometimes items ordered for review don't appear, sometimes an item will appear in one mag and not others, sometimes it'll appear too late to be timely and sometimes a box of random items not ordered will appear. It makes it look as though sometimes we don't treat manufacturers in a balanced way nor support stockists or provide readers with what they'd like to see appear.

[Dunsignalling]

On 25/04/2022 at 15:13, TomScrut said:

 

The interesting thing there is that if they didn't simply reorder, and tweaked running numbers it would probably help them get rid for minimal effort and cost. There are plenty of locos where duplication of a livery with different numbers would be acceptable and people might want both.

That's basically what they did with the J15, D16, 700 and S15 models, and several others besides.

 

The problem was not necessarily batch sizes, but bad timing. They released the follow-up models while those from the first batch hadn't sold out, everybody spotted  there was a glut and delayed purchasing in the confident expectation of bargains.  

 

I did get a "silly cheap" third S15 and a 72xx tank that I wouldn't have otherwise bought, so Hatton's and I, did OK. Assuming that Hornby hadn't offloaded the surplus stock at below cost, they presumably made a few quid they wouldn't otherwise have earned, too.

 

John     

[Phil Parker]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

I sometimes think there's some kind of tier system applied to the magazines too; sometimes items ordered for review don't appear, sometimes an item will appear in one mag and not others, sometimes it'll appear too late to be timely and sometimes a box of random items not ordered will appear. It makes it look as though sometimes we don't treat manufacturers in a balanced way

 

Which is odd, since I'm sure I've read on a popular web forum, that we are in cahoots with the manufacturers...

[Robin Brasher]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Then stop doing it.  There is someone called @Robin Brasher who will be upset as he doesn't like thread drift.

 

 

A single model has been damaged in transit. This is sad and annoying, but doesn't speak of a larger problem related to the Tiers system, the subject of this thread. It doesn't matter what Tier the shop you buy from is in, if the model is damaged, you hand it back and they give you a replacement, then send the broken one back to Hornby.

I presume that Hornby have introduced the tier system so that a customer who wants a 'must have' model will buy directly from Hornby rather that Hattons ( if they really are in tier 3) or their local model shop.  I have not had much experience of buying directly from Hornby but when they repaired 'Royal Mail' the locomotive came back in a box large enough for a whole fleet of Merchant Navy Pacifics and I also obtained some Coronation Scot coaches directly from Hornby when everywhere else ran out. I don't think they were as professionally packaged as models ordered by post from Hattons in tier 3 and Kernow possibly in tier 2.  

 

I hope that you will see the relevance of this post but as far as I can see it relates to the Hornby tier system and is more relevant than cashing cheques at banks.

[Robin Brasher]

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Which is odd, since I'm sure I've read on a popular web forum, that we are in cahoots with the manufacturers...

I look forward to reading about the tier system in the magazines.

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Which is odd, since I'm sure I've read on a popular web forum, that we are in cahoots with the manufacturers...

Goes without saying doesn’t it? 🤣

[Roy Langridge]

31 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I sometimes think there's some kind of tier system applied to the magazines too; sometimes items ordered for review don't appear, sometimes an item will appear in one mag and not others, sometimes it'll appear too late to be timely and sometimes a box of random items not ordered will appear. It makes it look as though sometimes we don't treat manufacturers in a balanced way nor support stockists or provide readers with what they'd like to see appear.

An interesting observation and one that I don’t recall seeing reflected on here before. Seems even more “biting the hand that feeds them”. 
 

Roy

[SHMD]

2 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Why would  Tier 3 shop only get stuff if it was being 'pushed out' due to 'over ordering'? Everyone puts in their orders, but Tier 3 gets allocated only after Tiers 1 and 2. They still get stuff at around the same time. 

 

..because Hornby wants the "easy" revenues, that it thought, the "box shifters" were getting.*

 

*(..but the so-called box shifters [Tier 3] are actually providing a service Hornby can not - a greater range AND a better customer interface/service.)

 

 

Kev.