Stevelewis Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Thanks for all the info posted to date on The 4VEP, Since returning the one I recvd last week and receiving a rapid no questions asked full refund plus my postal costs by retrun, I have had a chance to speak again to the retailer who said that they have had a few returns and comments about the disappointing reception the model has received. I for one will be rather less entusiastic in rushing out to buy a Brighton Bell ! Another thing I would comment on is the review of the 4 VEP in NSE livery in a well known Magazine seemed to indicate, that the 4VEP "Performed as admirably as its predecessor ( the Blue version)-- Very well indeed!!!" I wonder how much we should believe the validity of these reviews? Edited October 23, 2011 by Stevelewis 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 To be fair guys you only sent them off the other day... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 On the motor performance, if Hornby don't offer an upgrade to the mechanism, does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve the performance of the existing motor bogie without replacing it entirely? Low rail adhesion aside, the performance is noticeably "coggy" at slow speeds which my Hornby 73 also suffers from. I have tried messing with the settings on DCC, and turning the BEMF right down definitely helps, but still the start is unrealistically jerky - speed step 1 is not the slow crawl that we have become used to in most modern models (and CV2 is set to 0 volts!) I remember reading in another thread that someone was considering replacing the actual motor inside their Limby bogie with a Mashima motor (the limby bogie was from a different model - I think a 101 or similar). Has anyone tried this with a limby motor, and did it help at all? Anyone thought about using a Walkman motor? A friend of mine remotored a Lima Deltic (using a scratchbuilt chassis though) and it ran smoothly at all speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby (John) Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Please keep posting, i have got 11-1 with Bet Fred that we will be at 50 pages by next Saturday. Although i think i got most of the relevant comments by page 5 of what webbers thought of the product........................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted October 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2011 Last week I collected my dcc on board VEPs from the HobbyShop at Faversham and, based on the comments in this thread, prior to collection asked Harvey to test run both motor coaches. This he did and advised that the blue version was ok but the NSE version did rattle a bit. Yesterday I started to test run the NSE version on my oval test track (which uses Roco R4 curves) but did not find it to be unduly noisy (and certainly not as noisy as the Bachmann dcc on board Class N steamie collected at the same time!!). As mentioned in an earlier thread the motor coach is certainly jerky upon start-up but once going it appears quite smooth. Plan is to give the motor coach a run-in every day for the next few days. If no problems arise then I might pluck up the courage to connect the other coaches and see how that goes....... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Hi Keith Suggest you try it sooner with the other cars attached! (ee my PM) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 To be fair guys you only sent them off the other day... Absolutely, but I wasn't moaning. Far from it, more keeping a reminder of time from delivery to letter to now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadyneman Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 On the motor performance, if Hornby don't offer an upgrade to the mechanism, does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve the performance of the existing motor bogie without replacing it entirely? Low rail adhesion aside, the performance is noticeably "coggy" at slow speeds which my Hornby 73 also suffers from. I have tried messing with the settings on DCC, and turning the BEMF right down definitely helps, but still the start is unrealistically jerky - speed step 1 is not the slow crawl that we have become used to in most modern models (and CV2 is set to 0 volts!) I remember reading in another thread that someone was considering replacing the actual motor inside their Limby bogie with a Mashima motor (the limby bogie was from a different model - I think a 101 or similar). Has anyone tried this with a limby motor, and did it help at all? I have installed a Bachmann 36-553 decoder in my VEP and I have to say it runs exceptionally smoothly at slow speeds with this decoder. It knocks the jerky and juddery Hornby decoders into touch but you must remember to reduce CV54 to about 10 with the Bachmann decoder to make it run smoothly and not try to race away. I don't think the Hornby VEP needs re motoring, it just needs more electrical pick up, better weight distribution (i.e a metal chassis like Bachmann's 4CEP) and NO TRACTION TYRES! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Not sure how practical it is, but is there any way of fitting the 4VEP with the 4CEP's motor etc? Or some sort of carden shaft arrangement. Guess it might be too much of a work up though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Not sure how practical it is, but is there any way of fitting the 4VEP with the 4CEP's motor etc? Or some sort of carden shaft arrangement. Guess it might be too much of a work up though Just the expense of buying two models to make one frightens me, let alone how many differences between the two there are! BUT, Cardan shaft arrangement intrigues. There's a thought, if a decent motor could be slung into a space in the specific carriage and then drive the wheelset (or wheelsets?) through a cardean shaft. Edited October 24, 2011 by S.A.C Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 BUT, Cardean shaft arrangement intrigues. There's a thought, if a decent motor could be slung into a space in the specific carriage and then drive the wheelset (or wheelsets?) through a cardean shaft. Does the Replica motorised chassis offer any possibilities, I wonder? Just a thought, it may be miles out, but just perhaps ...? You are doing a great job with your VEP - as others have said, perhaps Hornby could or should have done some more of this themselves! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 BUT, Cardean shaft arrangement intrigues. Are you trying to tell us there's a pre-Group 4-6-0 on the way B) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Are you trying to tell us there's a pre-Group 4-6-0 on the way B) D'oh! Does the Replica motorised chassis offer any possibilities, I wonder? Just a thought, it may be miles out, but just perhaps ...? I am planning to order one in the near future for a 4EPB build anyway so (as said previously in this thread) will investigate for everyone You are doing a great job with your VEP - as others have said, perhaps Hornby could or should have done some more of this themselves! Richard I don't know if everyone will think it's such a great job when they see what I'm doing to it next! Edited October 24, 2011 by S.A.C Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In the US Athearn has recently released a new HO state of the art model of the EMD GP7 and GP9 and the company has received criticism for some rather obvious and disappointing dimensional errors. Their response on their Facebook page has been posted: "Concerning Athearn Genesis GP7 and GP9 products: some dimensional discrepancies on these products have been pointed out and we regret any inconvenience to our customers. Some small measurement errors occurred in the development process and were not realized until after the first models were shipped. In order to address these issues we have measured actual full scale units in detail and are in the process of making the necessary tooling changes to ensure that, while our measurements show the current model is already the most accurate reproduction available, the revisions will make it even more so. These changes are limited to moving the side doors and grilles up .040", and the cab side front and rear windows down .020", but since these changes are important to our customers they are most important to Athearn. Already announced road names to be produced with the changes include the Santa Fe Zebra Stripe, New York Central, Boston & Maine and NKP, as well as any future announcements. We sincerely regret any inconvenience to our customers and continually endeavor to produce the most realistic, accurate, and affordable model railroad products in the industry." Just thought I'd mention it........ Gerry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does the Replica motorised chassis offer any possibilities, I wonder? Just a thought, it may be miles out, but just perhaps ...? You are doing a great job with your VEP - as others have said, perhaps Hornby could or should have done some more of this themselves! Richard I have a Replica Railways chassis to go under my DCkits 2HAP. It runs superbly with plenty of power from the two motors. The 423 is listed on the RR website but whether it will fit the Hornby 423 is anybodies guess. see http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/die-cast-chassis for details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't know if everyone will think it's such a great job when they see what I'm doing to it next! I told you not to mention the 8Vab project!!! What is emerging, not unreasonably, is that a proportion of users are happy enough with the Vep "as is" especially if theirs has run in and become a half-decent runner. Some of us are exhibiting initiative and quite advanced modelling skills in trying to get a more acceptable model out of the beast. Of those who have kindly shared their wisdom and skill there seems to be a broad agreement that a lot of work really needs to be done. New fronts. New powering arrangements which might require a complete new interior to the brake coach to accommodate. New wheels / bogies / couplers / horns / vents / tommy bars ......... At what point does each one of us say "Enough is enough" and decide that £130+ is too much to pay for what will almost immediately become a kit of spares parts and scrap bits, rebuilt from the rails upwards? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I told you not to mention the 8Vab project!!! At what point does each one of us say "Enough is enough" and decide that £130+ is too much to pay for what will almost immediately become a kit of spares parts and scrap bits, rebuilt from the rails upwards? I am at that point now. However I am in too deep to simply stop and leave it as is. I wouldn't recommend the model to anyone who wanted a 4VEP. I would however, having seen one in the flesh (and having now bought one!) would recommend wholeheartedly the Bachmann 4CEP in direct contrast. Looking at those terrific comparison photographs of the MJT and Hornby front ends, I think the best way to get the "look" is to actually remove the door as Gareth did from the Hornby one, but remove the door from the MJT gangway, and fit the Hornby one into it. Once that's done, you look at the front end of the two models. Remove the pipes from the Hornby one for use on the MJT casting, which can be carefully filed into the rounded shape (the three separate panels thing is gastly). Overall I think with the MJT front, Hornby door, MJT gangway, a better looking front end is possible. Whether or not I will actually go that far depends on when I've got all the pieces to hand...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 What is emerging, not unreasonably, is that a proportion of users are happy enough with the Vep "as is" especially if theirs has run in and become a half-decent runner. Some of us are exhibiting initiative and quite advanced modelling skills in trying to get a more acceptable model out of the beast. Of those who have kindly shared their wisdom and skill there seems to be a broad agreement that a lot of work really needs to be done. New fronts. New powering arrangements which might require a complete new interior to the brake coach to accommodate. New wheels / bogies / couplers / horns / vents / tommy bars ......... At what point does each one of us say "Enough is enough" and decide that £130+ is too much to pay for what will almost immediately become a kit of spares parts and scrap bits, rebuilt from the rails upwards? That seems to be an admirably balanced, extremely concise and very well phrased summary of the best of 39 pages! This doesn't surprise me - I'm used to reading fair-minded common sense from Gwiwer! Perhaps it would also be the point for all of us to say 'enough said!', but I sense that this thread will still be running at least until Warley next month! Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted October 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Incidentall I have had my VEP running in consist with a CEP round the garden again this week and so far it has not been a problem. Maybe mine has settled down and run itself in. Only time will tell! Beware leaves on the line... Have you converted one to lay sandite... Edited October 24, 2011 by brushman47544 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 To be fair guys you only sent them off the other day... if its aimed at me i think you have missed read my post i was not expecting a reply now that be fair too quick! all the best from Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I think this just demonstrates the usefulness of this forum ,compared to mags, in having a warts and all review and a longer term running test. There do seem to be two categories of issues:- Aesthetics such as corridor connections, cantrail stripes,solid corridor positions. Armed with the information from here I can go examine and decide whether I want the model. On balance probably yes. Then there are the much more serious running issues, derailments, slow running, inability to go round 2nd radius curves. These are just show stoppers for me. I really can't consider buying this model on these grounds Hornby really should make some statement. Aside from the letters being recently sent off, I'll bet they monitor rmweb for feedback, so they must know there are issues. What Andy has said is probably correct ie this model has been made to a specific price point, the question is , what about the 5 BEL?Surely they wouldn't consider a Limby unit with traction tyres on this? I note that following experiences with the 4 VEP there are a number of people cancelling orders for the 5 BEL , so its really in Hornbys interest to clarify their position now- as well as addressing the clear flaws in the VEP 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Exactly what I have said previously, the impulse sales potential of the 5 BEL when it becomes available must surely now be much reduced, I will be taking a more measured approach to purchasing a 5 BEL, despite the possibility of the 'limited stocks' messages that sometimes occur for new releases! Edited October 24, 2011 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 if its aimed at me i think you have missed read my post i was not expecting a reply now that be fair too quick! all the best from Steve Ah ok no probs. You know what our postal service is like... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Just the expense of buying two models to make one frightens me, let alone how many differences between the two there are! BUT, Cardan shaft arrangement intrigues. There's a thought, if a decent motor could be slung into a space in the specific carriage and then drive the wheelset (or wheelsets?) through a cardean shaft. Maybe, but when one considers a certain retailer is selling a 4 CEP for only 30 quid more than a replica chassis this gives you the oppertunity to have a "broken down" 4Cep, or two 4CEPs running together, or the Lymington branch etc. On the Cardan arrangement, how about the motor from the Bachmann 150, cut down as I've seen somewhere else on this site with seating fitted around. Maybe better for the blue 4Vep's with the curtains and a restricted cabin view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted October 26, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2011 Meanwhile, my fears about the couplings appear to be justified. I attempted to couple my first unit today, but now it seems I can't make a reliable electrical connection to either of the DTCs - rather makes a mockery of all the lighting. Actually, at the moment I can't even manage to make a reliable physical connection, but I'm sure I'll work around that. Just when I was getting ready to test a bogie change [ might work, might not - at the moment it's reversible, using good old blutack ]. I'm (again) getting ready to curse the designers who gave us all those interior lights and illuminated headcodes. Looks as if I might have to add pickups on each of the coaches (unless I can find any ultra-micro 2-pin connectors - everything I've found so far has too much sticking out the plug, I want a socket that will sit in the coach end, with the plug underneath). ĸen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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