Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, markw said:

We have been through this before, they DO NOT have coreless motors.

'We' haven't been through it before but I am happy to be CORRECTED on that. The pertinent bit is that they are low floor

[Vepslam3417]

On 02/02/2024 at 19:06, andyman7 said:

One thing I have noticed on the SWT version is that the cantrail orange line is missing on the cab fronts of one of the DTC vehicles - it's there on the other end. They all seem to be like this (including mine). Not sure whether 3455 actually was like this or if it's a production error.

 

 

Hi, 

 

Yes 3455 was lineless on one end, I think this is a superb bit of detailing from Hornby.  Might be a slight issue if renumbering for some modellers but it's simple enough to either mask and paint or apply a transfer for others. 

 

 

[NIK]

Hi,

I've just had a funny one while evaluating a new (revision 2) Hornby OO 4 VEP in SWT livery.

I noticed while trying the DCC slow running of the power car on a test plank that it was jerky in one direction (to the left) but smooth in the other.

Turning the power car end for end and it was smooth to the right and jerky to the left.

I cleaned the track, added a stay alive and tried adjusting the Zimo MX decoder K and I parameters to no effect.

I then noticed the test plank has a slight slope to the left. Levelling the plank and the power car was smooth in both directions.
Making the plank lower at the right hand end makes the power car jerky running slowly to the right but not the left.

I will check the flatness of the club layout I intend to run the VEP on (at least the bits where the VEP may be running slowly and are also seen by the public).

I've got some ESU Lokpilot 5 decoders on order so they may help with slow running on gradients.

Regards

Nik

Edited February 5 by NIK
Typo

[andyman7]

35 minutes ago, Vepslam3417 said:

Hi, 

 

Yes 3455 was lineless on one end, I think this is a superb bit of detailing from Hornby.  Might be a slight issue if renumbering for some modellers but it's simple enough to either mask and paint or apply a transfer for others. 

 

 

Fabulous!

[metadyneman]

I have to say I am mightily impressed with this revised VEP, I think it really looks the part and is a vast improvement on the previous version. My only gripe is the body on the power car is way too loose. It made it easy to put a decoder in it though.

It has been trundling round my lockdown project railway "Portsdale" all afternoon and I'm very pleased with it.

[D3489gibson]

4 hours ago, metadyneman said:

I have to say I am mightily impressed with this revised VEP, I think it really looks the part and is a vast improvement on the previous version. My only gripe is the body on the power car is way too loose. It made it easy to put a decoder in it though.

It has been trundling round my lockdown project railway "Portsdale" all afternoon and I'm very pleased with it.

 

I see you've gone for 34 as the route code.. Any reasoning behind it or just a mix it up code? I went for 66 on mine personally due to me spending so much time when I was younger on the East Grinstead line. Took mine with my to Alton FebEx last weekend and ran it on Folly Lane, and it certainly didn't look too much out of place! 

 

Nathan...

[Gwiwer]

34 at the time this livery was used meant Victoria - Brighton semi-fast via Redhill.  
66 was Victoria - East Grinstead

3514 would have been used on both so either headcode is perfectly good.   As would be many others.

[metadyneman]

13 hours ago, D3489gibson said:

 

I see you've gone for 34 as the route code.. Any reasoning behind it or just a mix it up code? I went for 66 on mine personally due to me spending so much time when I was younger on the East Grinstead line. Took mine with my to Alton FebEx last weekend and ran it on Folly Lane, and it certainly didn't look too much out of place! 

 

Nathan...

I chose 34 because it is/was the Brighton-Victoria semi fast service on which 3514 was definitely used as Gwiwer has said. I live in Portslade and did consider 62 (Brighton-Portsmouth Harbour) but I have a lot of other stuff with that headcode (which was also used for South Western services down to the west country). My one criticism of the headcode stickers provided by Hornby is that the two blanks are actually transparent and not white. I put them on the other end thinking it would look ok but it doesn't, so I will be changing that in due course.

Edited February 9 by metadyneman

[NIK]

Hi,

 

A ESU Lokpilot 5 DCC decoder arrived and I replaced the Zimo MX634D with the ESU decoder to try and improve the running.

 

I put the revision 2 Hornby 4 VEP power coach on my rolling road and ran the ESU Lokpilot 5 "Autotune" feature.

 

I didn't get the same motor control (Back EMF etc) CV values as a friend who autotuned his 4 VEPs on the flat bits of his layout. I only have a 4 foot test plank to hand at the moment and the autotune runs the powered vehicle at high speed for 1.5 to 2 seconds.

 

As the values on the rolling road were noticeably different I used CV values similar to his:

 

CV51 = 11

CV52 = 4

CV53 = 94

CV54 = 29

CV55 = 16

 

Slow speed running was then pretty good on the flat but when I made quite a down gradient the VEPs speed was a bit erratic. I lowered CV 55 value to 8 and that made the down speed smoother.

 

Next to try it on Beggarwood Lane with all the VEP coaches, first the EMU on the flat and then down the gradient.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Edited February 10 by NIK
extra data

[NIK]

Hi,

 

I've been doing a bit of comparing of running qualities and wheel dimensions between an early Hornby 4 VEP and my revision 2 SWT 4 VEP.

 

Early VEP power car: poor slow running (Zimo MX600R). Approx 1.3mm deep flanges on trailer coach wheels. 130 scale mph top speed.

 

Latest VEP power car: better slow running (ESU Lokpilot 5 after autotune and manual adjustments). 1mm flanges on trailer coach wheels, 0.86?mm flanges on power coach. 

 

Both early and latest VEP had 13.33mm wheels on the power coach which equates to 3 foot 4 inch diameter. 13.33mm dia is the same as the Dapol OO Class 73. Power bogie wheelbase is 35mm.

 

Regards

 

Nik

 

 

[andyman7]

I've noticed that the Hobby Shop Faversham has a pretty good price for the SWT one (no connection other than as a satisfied customer):

 https://hobb-e-mail.com/Hornby-r30107-south-west-trains-cl423-4-vep-66211-p.asp

[Farang]

On 05/02/2024 at 14:22, Vepslam3417 said:

Hi, 

 

Yes 3455 was lineless on one end, I think this is a superb bit of detailing from Hornby.  Might be a slight issue if renumbering for some modellers but it's simple enough to either mask and paint or apply a transfer for others. 

 

 

When I saw this I thought it was one of mine!

[RAF96]

HM7000 sound profile for the 4-Vep is due out soon.

[Southernman46]

Wonder if it includes the whistling sound the draught made as it blew through the door gap & froze your knee .......................... 🥶

Edited February 21 by Southernman46

[adb968008]

On 21/02/2024 at 09:57, Southernman46 said:

Wonder if it includes the whistling sound the draught made as it blew through the door gap & froze your knee .......................... 🥶

Or the passenger shouting in pain as they are hit by a tree branch spliting off and coming through the open window.

[andyman7]

I've been perusing this whole thread this evening to while away the time. The story of the Hornby 4 VEP encapsulates so much of the chaos that seems to have surrounded Hornby for the past 15 years or so. The early pages cover the anticipation and then the disappointment of the first issues with their various deficiencies. Comparison was made with the quality and price of the Bachmann 4 CEP.

 

Around page 65-66, in late 2014 the blue grey version appears, delayed and with virtually no fanfare. It was been made in the Sanda Kan facility which was at that point closing down. There's some disappointment that the model still has traction tyres, still no pinpoint axles, motor still in the non-Guard's end of the MBS and no changes to the cab 'face' but motor gearing is improved, the corridor sections have internal compartment windows modelled and the finish wins praise. The model retails at around £160  Two months later it is being offered by Kernow at £99, Hornby with undue haste apparently seeking to clear the model, and leaving many buyers frustrated at have shelled out full price. 

 

Nothing is then heard of the model for the best part of a decade until the SWT/Southern versions are announced. Despite the delay, the model does now really seem transformed. A new chassis with diecast frame, motor now at the 'right' end of the MBS, no traction tyres, pinpoint axles, cab face revised, lovely complex livery application, revised couplings means pretty much all the shortcomings have been addressed - and the price is now comfortably cheaper than Bachmann's CEPs. What a transformation!

 

Oh, and the Blue Grey one is now highly sought after - topping £300 in secondhand prices these days, so anyone who paid full price and still has their model  hasn't done too badly in the end either.  

[NIK]

Thanks Andyman7, 

 

I didn't know there had been a batch of Blue Grey Hornby VEPs with improved gearing.

 

I've been comparing the slow running of a SWT Revision 2 4 VEP with a Blue 4 VEP.

 

I will look through my Blue Grey VEPs to see if I have any with revised gearing - will the corridor sections having internal compartment windows modelled be the giveaway?.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, NIK said:

Thanks Andyman7, 

 

I didn't know there had been a batch of Blue Grey Hornby VEPs with improved gearing.

 

I've been comparing the slow running of a SWT Revision 2 4 VEP with a Blue 4 VEP.

 

I will look through my Blue Grey VEPs to see if I have any with revised gearing - will the corridor sections having internal compartment windows modelled be the giveaway?.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Yes, it should be as - prior to the current releases - the blue-grey ones should all have the compartment windows opened up, although I suspect that some were subsequently swapped by owners with blue or NSE versions, so beware of any examples that may have come to you secondhand

Edited February 28 by andyman7

[CGoddard]

Has anyone else had any issues with the front and rear lights on this model? At first fitted a Dapol Imperium 3 and all seemed OK. I had one little short and after this the lights stopped working.  Tried factory resetting and a different decoder and still no luck. Big shame as it is a lovely model. Interior lights still work its just the front and rear lights.

Edited March 3 by CGoddard

[D3489gibson]

6 hours ago, CGoddard said:

Has anyone else had any issues with the front and rear lights on this model? At first fitted a Dapol Imperium 3 and all seemed OK. I had one little short and after this the lights stopped working.  Tried factory resetting and a different decoder and still no luck. Big shame as it is a lovely model. Interior lights still work its just the front and rear lights.

 

I must ask, only because you haven't said you've tried it, but have you had F0 on and tapped the cab roofs to make sure they haven't just gone off from that???

 

Nathan...

[CGoddard]

Yes have tried this, its going back to Hornby as ive tried all other options. Not even working on DC.

[MistaMatthews]

Please could somebody kindly advise of how to remove the bodies for the end units. The two centre units are very easy but the end units seem to be more of a struggle and I’m not keen on forcing it.

 

Thanks!

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, MistaMatthews said:

Please could somebody kindly advise of how to remove the bodies for the end units. The two centre units are very easy but the end units seem to be more of a struggle and I’m not keen on forcing it.

 

Thanks!

 

I cannot comment for the latest units, but the originals are a handful of clips on both sides (and maybe one in the nose). I merely slide stiff card down the sides and pull from the inner end. A lot easier than Bachmann's CEP.

[JSpencer]

On 28/02/2024 at 00:59, andyman7 said:

I've been perusing this whole thread this evening to while away the time. The story of the Hornby 4 VEP encapsulates so much of the chaos that seems to have surrounded Hornby for the past 15 years or so. The early pages cover the anticipation and then the disappointment of the first issues with their various deficiencies. Comparison was made with the quality and price of the Bachmann 4 CEP.

 

Around page 65-66, in late 2014 the blue grey version appears, delayed and with virtually no fanfare. It was been made in the Sanda Kan facility which was at that point closing down. There's some disappointment that the model still has traction tyres, still no pinpoint axles, motor still in the non-Guard's end of the MBS and no changes to the cab 'face' but motor gearing is improved, the corridor sections have internal compartment windows modelled and the finish wins praise. The model retails at around £160  Two months later it is being offered by Kernow at £99, Hornby with undue haste apparently seeking to clear the model, and leaving many buyers frustrated at have shelled out full price. 

 

Nothing is then heard of the model for the best part of a decade until the SWT/Southern versions are announced. Despite the delay, the model does now really seem transformed. A new chassis with diecast frame, motor now at the 'right' end of the MBS, no traction tyres, pinpoint axles, cab face revised, lovely complex livery application, revised couplings means pretty much all the shortcomings have been addressed - and the price is now comfortably cheaper than Bachmann's CEPs. What a transformation!

 

Oh, and the Blue Grey one is now highly sought after - topping £300 in secondhand prices these days, so anyone who paid full price and still has their model  hasn't done too badly in the end either.  

 

Indeed, my adventure was similar. I brought the NSE version upon release, that was about £130 at the time. And found it was not as good as the CEP which I had brought for £120 at the time of it's release.

About a year later I picked up a bargain all blue VEP for £80.

 

The blue/grey dragged it's heals for a few years and the second run of CEPs were not selling fast either. So I got a second CEP cheaper than the first.

When the Blue/grey VEP finally appeared, I decided against it, as I now had two VEPs (all blue and NSE) and two CEPs (both blue grey + an MLV).

When the blue/grey VEPs went for £99, I brought one of those too.

I have not brought the latest VEPs as the liveries are beyond my era.

 

Anyway, the years dragged on and finally Bachmann released the 4-BEP, more expensive than the price I paid for the two CEPs and MLV. But - after allowing some time to pass - I picked one up at a slightly higher discount (I now had a full boat train!).

 

As for prices of older VEPs, a certain auction site is showing all blue ones between £200 and £300 right now, but one was sold earlier today at £137 (normal bidding conditions). So I am always careful of what people ask for these things on that site and what they are actually worth. Heck, even old Dapol open wagons with big coupling hooks are on there asking for £30 to £40!

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by JSpencer

[Southernman46]

Yup, my B&G 4-VEP spends its time inert (Motor gearing disconnected) between 2 Bachman 4-CEPs which they often did in reality - seems to work and I don't have to look at it's "face" as a result. When the new & improved B&G version appears - well I might or will probably just buy another Accurascale Class 31 instead ...................... 😁