Old plastikard

[doilum]

A cautionary tale. My current project Wheldon (industrial thread) is being, wherever possible, constructed from recycled or old stock materials. Today I thought the gods were smiling as there was a solitary, almost complete sheet of Slater's 7mm brick in my favourite bond. To be clear, I have always been a huge fan of the product and, over a modelling lifetime, must have spent a four figure sum on plastikard sheet and related products. To my surprise this sheet began to shatter as I tried to cut it. Fortunately it was the last of a multipack and I am not sat on an expensive stack of broken plastic. At a guess, I bought it about eight years ago as part of a large order for the construction of a station for the club layout. Previously I have used leftover scraps or recycled walls from projects 30 years ago. 

There was a successful outcome as I managed to bond a piece to some 30thou and then cut it accurately to the required size.

In future I might have to think carefully about over ordering on the basis that it will come in handy later. In case anyone is interested, it was stored in a boxfile in a dry workshop and the problem doesn't seem to have affected any other sheets.

 

[doilum]

A cautionary tale. My current project Wheldon (industrial thread) is being, wherever possible, constructed from recycled or old stock materials. Today I thought the gods were smiling as there was a solitary, almost complete sheet of Slater's 7mm brick in my favourite bond. To be clear, I have always been a huge fan of the product and, over a modelling lifetime, must have spent a four figure sum on plastikard sheet and related products. To my surprise this sheet began to shatter as I tried to cut it. Fortunately it was the last of a multipack and I am not sat on an expensive stack of broken plastic. At a guess, I bought it about eight years ago as part of a large order for the construction of a station for the club layout. Previously I have used leftover scraps or recycled walls from projects 30 years ago. 

There was a successful outcome as I managed to bond a piece to some 30thou and then cut it accurately to the required size.

In future I might have to think carefully about over ordering on the basis that it will come in handy later. In case anyone is interested, it was stored in a boxfile in a dry workshop and the problem doesn't seem to have affected any other sheets.

 

[phil_sutters]

3 minutes ago, doilum said:

A cautionary tale. My current project Wheldon (industrial thread) is being, wherever possible, constructed from recycled or old stock materials. Today I thought the gods were smiling as there was a solitary, almost complete sheet of Slater's 7mm brick in my favourite bond. To be clear, I have always been a huge fan of the product and, over a modelling lifetime, must have spent a four figure sum on plastikard sheet and related products. To my surprise this sheet began to shatter as I tried to cut it. Fortunately it was the last of a multipack and I am not sat on an expensive stack of broken plastic. At a guess, I bought it about eight years ago as part of a large order for the construction of a station for the club layout. Previously I have used leftover scraps or recycled walls from projects 30 years ago. 

There was a successful outcome as I managed to bond a piece to some 30thou and then cut it accurately to the required size.

In future I might have to think carefully about over ordering on the basis that it will come in handy later. In case anyone is interested, it was stored in a boxfile in a dry workshop and the problem doesn't seem to have affected any other sheets.

 

Does that say anything about the durability of models constructed from Plastikard or other similar polystyrene sheets, I wonder? I haven't noticed any deterioration of wagons I made 50+ years ago. Perhaps the material becomes brittle and it is an issue when one cuts or otherwise stresses it.

[Clive Mortimore]

35 minutes ago, doilum said:

A cautionary tale. My current project Wheldon (industrial thread) is being, wherever possible, constructed from recycled or old stock materials. Today I thought the gods were smiling as there was a solitary, almost complete sheet of Slater's 7mm brick in my favourite bond. To be clear, I have always been a huge fan of the product and, over a modelling lifetime, must have spent a four figure sum on plastikard sheet and related products. To my surprise this sheet began to shatter as I tried to cut it. Fortunately it was the last of a multipack and I am not sat on an expensive stack of broken plastic. At a guess, I bought it about eight years ago as part of a large order for the construction of a station for the club layout. Previously I have used leftover scraps or recycled walls from projects 30 years ago. 

There was a successful outcome as I managed to bond a piece to some 30thou and then cut it accurately to the required size.

In future I might have to think carefully about over ordering on the basis that it will come in handy later. In case anyone is interested, it was stored in a boxfile in a dry workshop and the problem doesn't seem to have affected any other sheets.

 

Hi doilum

 

As a modeller who has been bodging stuff in plastic card for decades having embossed plastic card shatter is not a problem I have encountered. Your storage method would have prevented any UV light problems that can effect some plastics. If it was all the sheets in a multipack that could have indicated a problem with composition of the plastic in the manufacturing process, but as you say it was only the one sheet. Thanks for the information, it is something I will need to keep an eye on with my older stock of plastic card.

 

Despite all the doomsayers anti-plastic card advice I have found most times plastic card does as I want and I am still running 40 year old scratchbuilt locos that haven't fallen apart (except when undergoing a Mortimore bounce test *). I do find when cutting up 50 year old Tri-ang and Trix maroon coloured coaches for my cut and shut models tend to shatter. I think that might be due to age, sunlight and the colourising compound of the plastic.

 

 

* Mortimore bounce test = clumsy blighter dropping it.

[Dagworth]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Mortimore bounce test = clumsy blighter dropping it.

Also applies to Heljan Hymeks…

 

A

[DCB]

Going brittle and hard is better than warping and shrinking like the old Triang plastic used to do.   That said I am not among the affluent cadre of modellers who can afford to buy new plasticard.   I have to make do with plastic sheets cut from dead computer cases.

 

I too use the Mortimore bounce test and its not only plastic models which shatter, a die cast 00 Farish King body absolutely disintegrated as I wrapped it up after selling it on eBay!

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Also applies to Heljan Hymeks…

 

A

Don't listen to Daggers, I did not drop the Hymek, it was learning to fly.

Photo and model by Steve Jones

[andyman7]

I am sure those of a more scientific background can explain better the physical and chemical properties of polystyrene plastics, but I have notices an undoubted tendency for at least a proportion of them to become excessively brittle over time - and in my experience the time span this can vary quite dramatically, without necessarily involving any difference in storage or usage characteristics. 

I have in my time dismantled several dozen Jouef Mk3s, a process that requires the sides to be levered out to release the roof. In many cases it works fine, but around 20% of them shatter when the procedure is attempted. In another case, a high proportion of the bogie frames for the first (R2001) issue of the Hornby Networker have either shattered spontaneously or break when an attempt to lever them off. However this does not affect them all, and does not affect any of the later (China-made) batches.

[Andy Hayter]

Polystyrene is a not overly stable polymer.  It is particularly vulnerable to UV radiation (aka sunlight) but also a whole range of environmental agents.  

 

In contrast to the OP I have just started to use a pack of Slaters stone embossed sheets that must have been bought pre- 1996 without issue so far.  They have been stored in the dark and as far as possible away from other agents - especially cleaning or oxidising agents where even the fumes might be a problem.   

[Sasquatch]

Many moons ago I purchased some Wills brick sheets from a shop in Newhaven. These had been displayed in the shop window for what must have been quite some time. Same problem! as they shattered when working with them. Lesson learned!

For what it might be worth I'm now cautious to prime all plastic models.

 

Shaun

[doilum]

The disintegration reminded me of those self destructing plastic carrier bags. Has there been a change in the raw material used?

[sir douglas]

if you leave styrene out it starts going yellow and brittle, so keep your stocks away in a draw or folder and once built, cover with a base paint or at least keep out of direct sunlight

[Huw Griffiths]

17 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Don't listen to Daggers, I did not drop the Hymek, it was learning to fly.

 

Yes. Right.

 

However, I should make it clear that I've also conducted a few "drop tests" myself, over the years.

 

 

[Chris Densham]

I've just had exactly the same with a sheet of Slaters 4mm brick. This has been stored in a cupboard so not exposed to light, and from memory is about 3 years old. Very brittle, if you try to bend it then it just snaps in two. Fortunately it's the last sheet I've got. All the plain plasticard seems fine.

[Chrisr40]

1 hour ago, Chris Densham said:

I've just had exactly the same with a sheet of Slaters 4mm brick. This has been stored in a cupboard so not exposed to light, and from memory is about 3 years old. Very brittle, if you try to bend it then it just snaps in two. Fortunately it's the last sheet I've got. All the plain plasticard seems fine.

Same here.

[Neil]

Yes I've had the same happen with Slaters brick and slate plasticard bought no more than two years ago. It's the pinky red coloured stuff and has a much glossier finish than usual. It's near unusable unlike some old Slaters planked plasticard which I've had in stock for over fifteen years which will still bend and cut without shattering despite its age.

[figworthy]

On 28/04/2022 at 20:02, Clive Mortimore said:

Don't listen to Daggers, I did not drop the Hymek, it was learning to fly.

Photo and model by Steve Jones

 

Any gauging issues with that ?

 

Adrian

[kevinlms]

21 hours ago, doilum said:

The disintegration reminded me of those self destructing plastic carrier bags. Has there been a change in the raw material used?

The problem is that they don't 'self-destruct', they just breakdown into ever smaller pieces and never become bio-degradable like a paper or cardboard equivalent.

[kevinlms]

12 hours ago, Neil said:

Yes I've had the same happen with Slaters brick and slate plasticard bought no more than two years ago. It's the pinky red coloured stuff and has a much glossier finish than usual. It's near unusable unlike some old Slaters planked plasticard which I've had in stock for over fifteen years which will still bend and cut without shattering despite its age.

I've had 'much glossier finish than usual' stuff and what I believe is that it wasn't a Slater's product at all, but another unknown brand.

[doilum]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I've had 'much glossier finish than usual' stuff and what I believe is that it wasn't a Slater's product at all, but another unknown brand.

In my case, possible but very unlikely as it was the last of a multipack.

[locomad2]

Noticed it myself good decade ago on some of my modelling projects made in the 1970's, mainly military plus a few railway stuff like smoke deflectors, very brittle especially the thin stuff.

 

Having used scrap stuff noticed too old bank cards ie credit cards go brittle with age although these are thicker, paint etc doesn't seen to protect them nor left in dark boxes.

 

What really is brittle is Hornby Dublo 2 rail track sleepers while peco tends to go soft

[D6775]

I bought a load of sheets of slaters stuff the other week and I am going to have to work out who I bought it off as its virtually unusable. you barely have to put a knife near it and bits start flying off. Never had this issue before. 

[Neil]

11 hours ago, D6775 said:

I bought a load of sheets of slaters stuff the other week and I am going to have to work out who I bought it off as its virtually unusable. you barely have to put a knife near it and bits start flying off. Never had this issue before. 

 

I had this happen with some I bought online during lockdown. I'm sure it wasn't old stock as it was from a retailer with a large turnover of stock; I now buy the South Eastern Finecast stuff.

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

 

I had this happen with some I bought online during lockdown. I'm sure it wasn't old stock as it was from a retailer with a large turnover of stock; I now buy the South Eastern Finecast stuff.

Is Slaters stuff marked at all? I didn't think it was, so a substitute is always a possibility.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Is Slaters stuff marked at all? I didn't think it was, so a substitute is always a possibility.

 

No, not marked but I bought it from one of two (can't remember which) reputable sellers who sold it as Slaters and it does match the dimensions and pattern of other Slaters stuff.