Hornby cuts model shops' allocations of items due summer 2022

[adb968008]

On 12/08/2022 at 19:48, jjb1970 said:

I am not sure whether it is easier for me to go to Australia or the UK to visit a British outline model train shop in person. In fairness there are a couple of shops which sell model trains but the selection of models is very sparse, it's almost all HO and prices crazy. Luckily the 'box shifters' see me right 👍

maybe when the draconian covid rules end, Try lee kwon hobbies in Kowloon,

http://www.modelrailway.com.hk

 

3 hour flight from SIN, United Airlines used to do day trip hops between the two for $150 and a great way to score 3000 airmiles / status too (Star alliance i’m sure youve discovered that with SQ)… its easier than a round trip to AU or UK! Even if its at the extreme end of visiting a Local model shop, but you also can get duty free refund, they have a lot of older / rarer stuff and occasionally are literally first to get it.

 

Outside Lee Kwons is a night market and a lot of electronics bits from China are available for pennies too… motors, boards, leds etc.. I have picked up factory seconds of US/EU and UK models there too in the past.. also for literally a few £’s.. (<£10), though condition was variable ive had some gems, as well as useful parts.

[jjb1970]

18 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

maybe when the draconian covid rules end, Try lee kwon hobbies in Kowloon,

http://www.modelrailway.com.hk

 

3 hour flight from SIN, United Airlines used to do day trip hops between the two for $150 and a great way to score 3000 airmiles / status too (Star alliance i’m sure youve discovered that with SQ)… its easier than a round trip to AU or UK! Even if its at the extreme end of visiting a Local model shop, but you also can get duty free refund, they have a lot of older / rarer stuff and occasionally are literally first to get it.

 

Outside Lee Kwons is a night market and a lot of electronics bits from China are available for pennies too… motors, boards, leds etc.. I have picked up factory seconds of US/EU and UK models there too in the past.. also for literally a few £’s.. (<£10), though condition was variable ive had some gems, as well as useful parts.

 

Thanks for that! Indeed, once HK reopens I am hoping to visit the model shops. At the moment travel to HK is a nightmare, China and HK are still trying to eliminate the virus where almost every other country in the world is now living with it. I am an enthusiast of Chinese railways too and some of the HK shops sell Chinese HO. Most of Asia is now easy to get around, this morning it took about ten minutes from aircraft to baggage claim at Changi. Admittedly we use the Singaporean residents channel which is easier but Changi is an extremely well operated airport.

[irishmail]

Seems like all products in the 'Hornby' group have changed about supplying model shops.  Earlier this month I treated myself to an Airfix kit from my 'local' model shop. When I got home I opened the kit and found some parts missing so I emailed Airfix about it and if they could supply the missing parts, this is their reply;

Dear Sir

Thank you for your email, 
Unfortunately i do not have this kit available.

Please see place of purchase for refund/replacement,

Sorry for any inconvenace this has caused.

Thank you

Regards

Airfix spares 

 

I then contacted the model shop and they told me they would get a replacement kit for me to exchange which I was happy to wait for, however they emailed me today with the following; 

Hi John

Sorry this has taken so long to sort it should of been sorted long ago. Airfix have now come back and said they have no kits in stock even though when i ordered you a replacement they said they had. The kit you got should of had x3 models in it which of the models are missing? If i can not sort the issue soon i think the best way is to refund the model.

 

On looking at the Airfix website the product is available for me to order directly but they can not supply my model shop!

https://uk.airfix.com/products/battle-britain-memorial-flight-a50182

 

We are often told to support our model shops, but if they can not get the products from the manufacturers  it is not very good.

I will be very reluctant to purchase any products in the Hornby range in future.

 

 

 

[Bucoops]

I can't condone doing this - order from the website, swap for the one from the model shop, return (for free) the now faulty website one.

 

I can't think why I even mentioned it.

[jjb1970]

On 15/08/2022 at 16:41, Les1952 said:

The main bee in Sam's trilby is cost and what you get for it.  

 

RMWebbers seem to ignore this  but three comparably sized 4-6-0s

 

Hornby Star RRP (or Hornby direct sales price)   £217.99

 

Bachmann Patriot  (source Bachmann website RRP) £209.95

 

Dapol Manor  RRP £159.95.

 

Is it any wonder that dealers are looking to increase Dapol stock (or like my LMS start stocking Dapol), and make contact with Accurascale, Rapido, KR Models et al?

 

Just a thought

Les

 

 

There's obviously a lot of validity in such a comparison, but ultimately it probably doesn't really matter that much. If I want a OO air-smoothed Merchant Navy it is Hornby or Dublo, ditto if I want a Schools it is Hornby. Given that, how the price compares to other models becomes somewhat moot, if an LNER Pacific for example is cheaper and better value than a Merchant Navy that's great for LNER modellers but doesn't help me as I'm not in the market for those (no more than great deals on the Schools Class would help LNER modellers). In this model trains are different to some other categories of goods. For example, I'm not an AV enthusiast and so if I go looking for a 50" TV I'll just look at all of them and then price comparisons do become a huge part of my decision making process. And of course the only price that matters is the price we pay, not the SRP which in many cases is something that exists on paper but few if any pay (the de-facto Bachmann SRP is SRP-15%). I wouldn't buy a model that I have no interest in simply because it offered good value. As with anything a great deal is only a great deal if it for something you actually want and/or need.

For all that, there are models offered by multiple suppliers, and that's when some Hornby prices look high. Their forthcoming 9F looks like it'll be a superb model, but it won't be cheap and the Bachmann 9F is still an excellent model which can be found with some attractive prices. In that case you also have to consider perceived value of higher levels of detail etc and it's a personal value decision whether or not it is worth paying more. 

[Les1952]

12 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

There's obviously a lot of validity in such a comparison, but ultimately it probably doesn't really matter that much. If I want a OO air-smoothed Merchant Navy it is Hornby or Dublo, ditto if I want a Schools it is Hornby. Given that, how the price compares to other models becomes somewhat moot, if an LNER Pacific for example is cheaper and better value than a Merchant Navy that's great for LNER modellers but doesn't help me as I'm not in the market for those (no more than great deals on the Schools Class would help LNER modellers). In this model trains are different to some other categories of goods. For example, I'm not an AV enthusiast and so if I go looking for a 50" TV I'll just look at all of them and then price comparisons do become a huge part of my decision making process. And of course the only price that matters is the price we pay, not the SRP which in many cases is something that exists on paper but few if any pay (the de-facto Bachmann SRP is SRP-15%). I wouldn't buy a model that I have no interest in simply because it offered good value. As with anything a great deal is only a great deal if it for something you actually want and/or need.

For all that, there are models offered by multiple suppliers, and that's when some Hornby prices look high. Their forthcoming 9F looks like it'll be a superb model, but it won't be cheap and the Bachmann 9F is still an excellent model which can be found with some attractive prices. In that case you also have to consider perceived value of higher levels of detail etc and it's a personal value decision whether or not it is worth paying more. 

 

which, when you think of it, is exactly the reason Hornby and Bachmann get away with relieving you of an extra £50 of your hard earned cash compared with the price their competitors can do similar models for......

 

Les

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

which, when you think of it, is exactly the reason Hornby and Bachmann get away with relieving you of an extra £50 of your hard earned cash compared with the price their competitors can do similar models for......

 

Les

 

No argument there. If manufacturer A has a model I want which is £50 more than a similar model I don't want from manufacturer B then I will pay the extra £50.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with models like the 9F and Class 37. I ordered a Bachmann Class 34/4 despite it being more than the Accurascale model (I have a couple of Accurascale examples on order). I'm curious to see how the two compare (though I have no doubt both will be superb) and don't really think either company will lose given the popularity of the prototype and the fact it has been a mainstay of the network over so many decades. On the 9F I am waiting to see the Hornby one. I think Hornby can beat the Bachmann model but it's a question of whether the improvement will be worth the extra cost.

 

But certainly, if a company has a product which people want and no competition they can charge for it.

[Dunsignalling]

I've already made a provisional decision on the 9F. My three Bachmann examples are used, and thus get observed from 2-3 feet away hauling up to maybe 50 wagons.

 

Hornby's samples look superb, and I am confident the finished articles will out-do mine on the detail front.

 

However

• I don't sit examining locos through a magnifying glass, other than out of curiosity when they first arrive, and extra detail is usually accompanied by greater vulnerability to damage.

• I have no need for extra power (and we don't yet know if Hornby's models will offer that, anyway); as none of the layouts mine run on can accommodate trains longer than I know the Bachmann ones can handle.

• I have no "operational need" for more 9Fs than the three I already own.

• I would be tempted by a "de-Crostied" Crosti, but that's not on offer.

Whatever superiority Hornby's 9Fs might exhibit will thus be "wasted on me", so, my cash is being earmarked for other impending models that satisfy unfulfilled wants/needs.

 

We shall see if my resolve holds when I see the final products "in the flesh".....

 

John

Edited September 1, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I've already made a provisional decision on the 9F. My three Bachmann examples are used, and thus get observed from 2-3 feet away hauling up to maybe 50 wagons.

 

Hornby's samples look superb, and I am confident the finished articles will out-do mine on the detail front.

 

However

• I don't sit examining locos through a magnifying glass, other than out of curiosity when they first arrive, and extra detail is usually accompanied by greater vulnerability to damage.

• I have no need for extra power (and we don't yet know if Hornby's models will offer that, anyway); as none of the layouts mine run on can accommodate trains longer than I know the Bachmann ones can handle.

• I have no "operational need" for more 9Fs than the three I already own.

• I would be tempted by a "de-Crostied" Crosti, but that's not on offer.

Whatever superiority Hornby's 9Fs might exhibit will thus be "wasted on me", so, my cash is being earmarked for other impending models that satisfy unfulfilled wants/needs.

 

We shall see if my resolve holds when I see the final products "in the flesh".....

 

John

The 9F was a remarkable machine. Many years ago, when my then missus saw my model in action, she characterised it as having “short, fat, hairy legs”. 😀 I have a Bachmann version and an updated Hornby version. The Bachmann is clearly superior in detail and in offering variations but the Hornby model has qualities of its own – particularly in having the gears concealed in the firebox rather than half-hidden behind the motion. That said, when both are at work on the layout, the Hornby isn’t disgraced by the Bachmann. I’m not at all inclined to replace either of them and I very much doubt that I’ll want an updated “standard” version. The mechanical stoker version seriously tempts me, not least because of Terry Essery’s extraordinary account of his efforts to get one to work despite its tender having been filled with the wrong sort of coal.

[adb968008]

23 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

If I want a OO air-smoothed Merchant Navy it is Hornby or Dublo, …. Given that, how the price compares to other models becomes somewhat moot,

…

Their forthcoming 9F looks like it'll be a superb model, but it won't be cheap and the Bachmann 9F is still an excellent model which can be found with some attractive prices. In that case you also have to consider perceived value of higher levels of detail etc and it's a personal value decision whether or not it is worth paying more. 

Theres the rub…

theres tens of thousands of Hornby 9f’s out there, and thousands of Bachmann ones…

 

is spending a pile of cash on yet another 9f at £250 a pop more sense than gap filling with something like a BR std 3MT 77xxx ?

 

for me i’m quite happy with my 9f fleet, Hornbys new one at £250 does nothing for when when my 9f fleet is full and complete with Bachmann ones, and with 50 new rtr toolings out there on the horizon, choices have to be made…

 

Had it been a 77xxx then the choice would have been far easier. Admittedly the scope for a 9f in the future is larger than a 3MT… but so is the future plans of other rtr model railway companies, and therefore pushing the 9f lower down the decision pile increases…

 

The hobby is a fashion not essential.. both a 3MT and a 9F will end up out of fashion after the first few releases when the next lot of new announcements falls. The days of 20 years making 47606 Triang jinties is long gone.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by adb968008

[No Decorum]

12 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Theres the rub…

theres tens of thousands of Hornby 9f’s out there, and thousands of Bachmann ones…

 

is spending a pile of cash on yet another 9f at £250 a pop more sense than gap filling with something like a BR std 3MT 77xxx ?

 

for me i’m quite happy with my 9f fleet, Hornbys new one at £250 does nothing for when when my 9f fleet is full and complete with Bachmann ones, and with 50 new rtr toolings out there on the horizon, choices have to be made…

 

Had it been a 77xxx then the choice would have been far easier. Admittedly the scope for a 9f in the future is larger than a 3MT… but so is the future plans of other rtr model railway companies, and therefore pushing the 9f lower down the decision pile increases…

 

The hobby is a fashion not essential.. both a 3MT and a 9F will end up out of fashion after the first few releases when the next lot of new announcements falls. The days of 20 years making 47606 Triang jinties is long gone.

 

 

 

 

 

For the choices I have to make, gap filling always tops an upgrade, unless the existing model is very poor. It’s a dilemma for the established manufacturers. Do they really want to have an old model not up to current standards in their line ups? You and I may be keener on filling gaps but Bachmann seems to have no trouble selling its premium 47s and 37s.

 

The gaps are also getting narrower. I find myself tempted by a diesel subclass which I haven’t got and also by a mechanical stoker 9F. Likewise, the De-Crostied 9F Dunsignalling mentioned above. Part of the reason I got a Bachmann 9F was because it had a single chimney with a different tender into the bargain.

[The Stationmaster]

At the moment there is something ofa more noticeable 'arms race' when it comes to raising standards and level of detail on models.  Part of the reason for that is that newcomers have entered the hobby with new ideas and a new eye for what can reasonably be incorporated into a model at a decent retail price.  Thus the older hands have to respond, or innovate, to retain overall market share but there is sometimes a lack of flexibility in their case because of either the size of their organisation or simple inertia from past ways of doing things.  And larger organisations also have higher overheads which means higher prices if they are to achieve solvency.

 

There will I think always be  'better mousetrap' versions of existing models appearing for a variety of reasons but only for as long as the market is there for them and the investment will make money for the developer of the new version.   The only question then is the one posed above - will the extra cost of a new, more highly detailed and mechanically better, 9F or Class 37 etc be  worth our while to spend money on it?  Or do we soldier on with our existing models until they are worn out and 'need' to be replaced?

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

For the choices I have to make, gap filling always tops an upgrade, unless the existing model is very poor. It’s a dilemma for the established manufacturers. Do they really want to have an old model not up to current standards in their line ups? You and I may be keener on filling gaps but Bachmann seems to have no trouble selling its premium 47s and 37s.

 

The gaps are also getting narrower. I find myself tempted by a diesel subclass which I haven’t got and also by a mechanical stoker 9F. Likewise, the De-Crostied 9F Dunsignalling mentioned above. Part of the reason I got a Bachmann 9F was because it had a single chimney with a different tender into the bargain.

I think there are some diesel fans for whom enough will never be enough, or that's what the manufacturers hope!

 

Mind you, by the end, no two class 47s were exactly the same, and most carried at least half-a-dozen different liveries over their careers, so there are opportunities even for multiple period-specific versions of the same loco!

 

Bachmann's tooling will wear out long before they run out of potential subjects!

 

John

[peteskitchen]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

For the choices I have to make, gap filling always tops an upgrade, unless the existing model is very poor. It’s a dilemma for the established manufacturers. Do they really want to have an old model not up to current standards in their line ups? You and I may be keener on filling gaps but Bachmann seems to have no trouble selling its premium 47s and 37s.

 

I would be interested to know what the production runs of these new 47s and 37s are compared to say Lima's production runs for the same models from 35 odd years ago. I do remember when Hornby released the Merchant Navy in 2000/2001 they sold in excess of 30000 models in the first 12 months. I fear that manufacturers are chasing a narrower and narrower market with ever higher spec locos at inflation busting price increases. Ours is such a limited market I wonder how long this can carry on before it topples over.....

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

At the moment there is something ofa more noticeable 'arms race' when it comes to raising standards and level of detail on models.  Part of the reason for that is that newcomers have entered the hobby with new ideas and a new eye for what can reasonably be incorporated into a model at a decent retail price.  Thus the older hands have to respond, or innovate, to retain overall market share but there is sometimes a lack of flexibility in their case because of either the size of their organisation or simple inertia from past ways of doing things.  And larger organisations also have higher overheads which means higher prices if they are to achieve solvency.

 

There will I think always be  'better mousetrap' versions of existing models appearing for a variety of reasons but only for as long as the market is there for them and the investment will make money for the developer of the new version.   The only question then is the one posed above - will the extra cost of a new, more highly detailed and mechanically better, 9F or Class 37 etc be  worth our while to spend money on it?  Or do we soldier on with our existing models until they are worn out and 'need' to be replaced?

Oddly, Mike, I nearly used the "better mousetrap" analogy in my earlier post!

 

 

There are people who must always have the latest thing, check out camera dealers' SH windows for mint, virtually unused, recent models within weeks of new ones coming out!

 

Different characteristics will attract different potential purchasers, but for those of us who make our locos work for a living, I think it only really becomes valid once the new model does something you want it to, that your old one doesn't.

 

My Bachmann 9Fs pull at least as much as any layout they run on can accommodate, so if the new Hornby one can do more, I'd doesn't really matter. It will undoubtedly be more detailed, but I'll not be able to see that from my normal viewpoint, and it will consequently be more fragile.

 

The ultimate progression,  though, is that the more often the standard of any model is revised upward, the fewer existing owners will consider it necessary to upgrade from the version that immediately preceded it.

 

John

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Or do we soldier on with our existing models until they are worn out and 'need' to be replaced?

My Trix 81 and Transpenine are older than me, and I suspect it will be me thats worn out and needs to be replaced before they do.

i’m not in a rush for either to be retooled, indeed the 81 can be easily upgraded to match the 85 in detail standards, as an easy project by even beginner modellers.

 

Ive several Lima 31/37/47’s still, time will tell if I upgrade, but moving beyond that to Vitrains and Bachmann none are on my replacement plans.

 

In gardening terms the arms race is split between cherry pickers (Popular classes) and niche gardeners (rare unusual prototypes) but the food staples of the hobby (16t mineral, mk1, track, signals, infrastructure), as well as older history (pre1923) and future  (post 2000) varieties are being largely ignored.

 

That to me is defining a box which may someday be the hobbies grave, sadly real world preservation is doing that too… todays youngsters are being ignored… milkchurns and pickup goods mean little to someone used to multi-liveried units.

Going back to gardening  thrice recycling the same veg in the same soil risks the harvest quality.. you need variety and rotation… the 9f might be a prize pumpkin, but who eats pumpkins these days ?

 

to me Hornby specifically needs some younger fresh roots… starting with the website to attract them.

Edited September 1, 2022 by adb968008

[Caledonian]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

In gardening terms the arms race is split between cherry pickers (Popular classes) and niche gardeners (rare unusual prototypes) but the food staples of the hobby (16t mineral, mk1, track, signals, infrastructure), as well as older history (pre1923) and future  (post 2000) varieties are being largely ignored.

 

That to me is defining a box which may someday be the hobbies grave, sadly real world preservation is doing that too… todays youngsters are being ignored… milkchurns and pickup goods mean little to someone used to multi-liveried units.

Going back to gardening  thrice recycling the same veg in the same soil risks the harvest quality.. you need variety and rotation… the 9f might be a prize pumpkin, but who eats pumpkins these days ?

 

to me Hornby specifically needs some younger fresh roots… starting with the website to attract them.

 

I'd agree with that and am minded of a book lurking on my shelves by a Mr Jenkinson, entitled Historical Railway Modelling. 

 

Exactly how you want to define "historical" will depend on you, but honesty would have to say that for most of us it could be defined by steam and if that's the case, why this obsession with modelling the last years of it when so much is on offer and untouched by manufacturers further back.

[andyman7]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

In gardening terms the arms race is split between cherry pickers (Popular classes) and niche gardeners (rare unusual prototypes) but the food staples of the hobby (16t mineral, mk1, track, signals, infrastructure), as well as older history (pre1923) and future  (post 2000) varieties are being largely ignored.

 

That to me is defining a box which may someday be the hobbies grave, sadly real world preservation is doing that too… todays youngsters are being ignored… milkchurns and pickup goods mean little to someone used to multi-liveried units.

Going back to gardening  thrice recycling the same veg in the same soil risks the harvest quality.. you need variety and rotation… the 9f might be a prize pumpkin, but who eats pumpkins these days ?

 

to me Hornby specifically needs some younger fresh roots… starting with the website to attract them.

Leaving aside variable distribution and quality issues, surely this is one area where Hornby are arguably addressing the modern market, with IEPs, Stadler FLIRTS, Pendolino etc - very much the up to the minute railway. 

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Leaving aside variable distribution and quality issues, surely this is one area where Hornby are arguably addressing the modern market, with IEPs, Stadler FLIRTS, Pendolino etc - very much the up to the minute railway. 

You forgot the 395 too..

 

Hornby Dublo modellers in the 1960’s had a bigger selection of steams “modern image” than Hornby offers todays “modern image” modellers today.

 

Hornby modellers of the 1990’s/2000’s had a better selection of “modern image” than they do today.

 

Thats the niche that others are filling, at some point Hornby should consider why those others are filling it, and why the newcomers are being feted in such a way.. ?

 

you can fall back on the “everyone likes to beat the old guys with a stick” mantra, but bottom line is, populism is popular… populism is based around change.

 

imo, weve just gone through a change era ending moment, and a benchmark that future modellers will rally too..

 

End of steam 1960’s.. 1955-1968

pre-/post privatisation era 1990’s .. 1985-1995

and now

the end of the BR stock era..2017-2025

 

Hornby is well geared to the first two, but has missed the third…. For example, How they missed cashing in on the 142 is odd to me…that was a gift just sitting in their tool room… The 755 to me strikes an odd choice, how they arrived at that being numero Uno, above 1000 Electrostar vehicles with 20+ liveries and 50% of England in coverage is beyond me.

 

Indeed the popular modern ones are now being picked off, the 175/180 was a good call by Revolution imo, 17x Turbostar, 350/450 and 220 were already picked off by Bachmann. Mk5’s by Accurascale.

The window is closing on the big hitters for Hornby, imo ripe for picking is still Electrostar, 319(and 769), 185, and the 700/707/17 Desiro, though for at least 1 of those it may already be too late. 
 

Of course when it comes to modern wagons.. just 1.. the infamous Drax, and theyve missed every new loco class since 1994….(68, 69,70,88,93 and 99). As for modern image S&T or Building Infrastructure Hornbys not even in the game..

 

For Diesel/Electric locos the horse has bolted, and theres nothing there now for Hornby, I don't doubt for one minute that another new tooled class 50 is coming from elsewhere, and wagons isn't leaving much space either… which means the future for Hornby maybe stuck in the past.

Edited September 2, 2022 by adb968008

[Les1952]

20 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

No argument there. If manufacturer A has a model I want which is £50 more than a similar model I don't want from manufacturer B then I will pay the extra £50.

 

 

 

But certainly, if a company has a product which people want and no competition they can charge for it.

 

 

and, in the case of Bachmann and Hornby, do......

[jjb1970]

A good model doesn't stop being a good model because a newer and more detailed alternative is released. The OO RTR scene reached a point quite a while ago whereby yes, new models will be released which move levels of detail on, but when operating on a layout don't really add much (if anything) to older alternatives. So in very few cases there's no need (I use 'need' in the model enthusiast sense, nobody needs a model train in the true sense) to go out and replace existing models. People might want to, and in some cases newer models are a definite step up, but you can keep older, still excellent models and not lose out. And not everything new is better.

I bought an Accurascale Deltic and that is a definite step up from any of the older Class 55 models, it is superb and also great value (although I have friends who while saying the AS model is much better prefer running the Bachmann model as it is more robust and can be handled more easily). On the other hand I'm a huge Class 44/45/46 fan and if I look at the new Heljan 45 pictures it beats the older Bachmann model in some areas but overall it really doesn't seem to beat the Bachmann and there is something about the face which negates the improvements elsewhere. The new Bachmann 47 is superbly done but although it is a step up when micro-analysing it on a bench I honestly don't think it meaningfully better than their last 47 when viewed at layout distances.

If I look at steam, the 9F has already been mentioned and that the more modern iterations of the old Hornby 9F is still a decent model. I think Hornby could improve the re-built Merchant Navy if they decided to re-tool but fundamentally I find it hard to imagine any new model would make me want to replace my existing models, I'd almost certainly buy an improved model but it would be additional and not to replace.

For all this, it's a hobby. When it comes to hobbies it is about passion and interest, not reducing everything to a balance sheet and while I see no reason to replace good models just because something newer with a bit more detail is released, if it is something I really like then I'm a sucker for stuff as much as anyone. If it's expensive I'd rather pay more for something I really want and if necessary buy less.

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, Caledonian said:

 

I'd agree with that and am minded of a book lurking on my shelves by a Mr Jenkinson, entitled Historical Railway Modelling. 

 

Exactly how you want to define "historical" will depend on you, but honesty would have to say that for most of us it could be defined by steam and if that's the case, why this obsession with modelling the last years of it when so much is on offer and untouched by manufacturers further back.

I think the main appeal is that one can run steam alongside (mainly green) diesels of types that remained familiar until much more recent times. It also retains the infrastructure and operational complexity (= interest) of earlier times. The former has been much rationalised, and the latter progressively dumbed down by the loss of most freight traffic (other than that moved in long block formations)  and the "unitization" of passenger services, both of which were only in their infancy during that time. 

 

In short, there's more visible variety on offer than in many other periods, and plenty to do with whatever one buys and/or builds.

 

It suits the manufacturers quite nicely because they can target models of both steam and diesel/electric prototypes at the same customers, and satisfy both pre-diesel steam fans and those who are into the immediate post-steam years, with items that suit both, e.g. maroon BR Mk.1 coaches. 

 

John

 

PS. My personal definition of "historical" is a period wholly outside ones personal experience of prototype railways, though ones perception can shift over time.

 

For me, 1962 isn't (or wasn't) historical, but 1952, always has been. I've since refined that somewhat and drawn a figurative border-line at the emergence of Bulleid's MNs in rebuilt form.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[spamcan61]

11 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

A good model doesn't stop being a good model because a newer and more detailed alternative is released. The OO RTR scene reached a point quite a while ago whereby yes, new models will be released which move levels of detail on, but when operating on a layout don't really add much (if anything) to older alternatives. So in very few cases there's no need (I use 'need' in the model enthusiast sense, nobody needs a model train in the true sense) to go out and replace existing models. People might want to, and in some cases newer models are a definite step up, but you can keep older, still excellent models and not lose out. And not everything new is better.

I bought an Accurascale Deltic and that is a definite step up from any of the older Class 55 models, it is superb and also great value (although I have friends who while saying the AS model is much better prefer running the Bachmann model as it is more robust and can be handled more easily). On the other hand I'm a huge Class 44/45/46 fan and if I look at the new Heljan 45 pictures it beats the older Bachmann model in some areas but overall it really doesn't seem to beat the Bachmann and there is something about the face which negates the improvements elsewhere. The new Bachmann 47 is superbly done but although it is a step up when micro-analysing it on a bench I honestly don't think it meaningfully better than their last 47 when viewed at layout distances.

If I look at steam, the 9F has already been mentioned and that the more modern iterations of the old Hornby 9F is still a decent model. I think Hornby could improve the re-built Merchant Navy if they decided to re-tool but fundamentally I find it hard to imagine any new model would make me want to replace my existing models, I'd almost certainly buy an improved model but it would be additional and not to replace.

For all this, it's a hobby. When it comes to hobbies it is about passion and interest, not reducing everything to a balance sheet and while I see no reason to replace good models just because something newer with a bit more detail is released, if it is something I really like then I'm a sucker for stuff as much as anyone. If it's expensive I'd rather pay more for something I really want and if necessary buy less.

This way of thinking echoes my own thoughts precisely.

 

 I've been waiting for a flood of Bachmann Deltics on to eBay so I can pick one up cheap, given their model is good enough for me, but it hasn't happened, presumably more people out there that think the same way as me. In terms of the re-built MN then Hornby appear to be working their way through the Sanda Kan era models replacing them, so I reckon an updated model will be on the way 'soon'.

Edited September 2, 2022 by spamcan61

[adb968008]

8 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

This way of thinking echoes my own thoughts precisely.

 

 I've been waiting for a flood of Bachmann Deltics on to eBay so I can pick one up cheap, given their model is good enough for me, but it hasn't happened, presumably more people out there that think the same was as me. In terms of the re-built MN then Hornby appear to be working their way through the Sanda Kan era models replacing them, so I reckon an updated model will be on the way 'soon'.

That assumes someone else isnt doing it.

The newcomers are cherry picking, and this is probably a prime candidate, that and is smaller variant.

 

it wouldnt be hard to beat the Hornby rebuilt WC, with its unusual seamline around half the boiler !

Edited September 2, 2022 by adb968008

[rogerzilla]

There are many older models where the body is fine but the motor and chassis are terrible.  The trouble there is that an improved version won't sell to the large proportion of the market that just puts their models in a glass case.