Modelling the Modern Image

[roythebus1]

Do you realise the term "Modern Image" is now 60 years old? It was coined by the lat Cyril J. Freezer, editor of the Railway Modeller in one of the summer editions of the magazine. It showed an AL1 (class 81) loco on the front cover with the term Modelling the Modern Image in a yellow circle on the picture. Inside were drawings for Macclesfield Station and Ditton Junction, as well as an article on the new electric railway.

 

So people who say "I'm a modern image modeller" could be modelling anything from 1962 onwards!

[Nearholmer]

You’re two years premature with the 60th birthday wishes, I’m afraid.

 

 

But, the point that the term is now on the mature side is well made.

[Il Grifone]

"Swinging Sixties" and all that! Unseemly haste to get rid of steam and lots of fresh new paint covering everything in a hideous* shade of blue.

Despie the claim in a BBC programme some years back that Britain was slow to modernise, it was actually the other way round. 141Rs were still in evidence in Saumur when we visited in 1972 (I have photographic evidence - see below - sorry for the rubbish quality - poor light and rather far away). Italy still had steam on the roster in the 80s. I was delighted to find a quantity of locomotives in store at Ventimiglia, but unfortunately didn't have a camera . Whether they were actually capable of being steamed is another matter of course.

 

* My opinion of course, but I thought so then and have not changed my mind. I only have a few models and Tri-ang-Hornby's idea of the shade is rather an improvement.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Il Grifone

[F-UnitMad]

On 04/07/2022 at 10:31, roythebus1 said:

So people who say "I'm a modern image modeller" could be modelling anything from 1962 onwards!

This is well-known and the topic gets a regular airing. *yawn*

 

 

[roythebus1]

Memory fade, I knew it was a long time ago, early 1960s! Maybe the "era" system is better?

[Il Grifone]

I think it's a PITA (especially as each country has a different set!). What is wong with just stating the years? Even things like pre-grouping, or pre-nationalisation* rely on knowlege of the dates.

 

* The latter are 1905 for Italy and 1938 for France for example (IIRC).

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I think it's a PITA (especially as each country has a different set!). What is wong with just stating the years? Even things like pre-grouping, or pre-nationalisation* rely on knowlege of the dates.

 

* The latter are 1905 for Italy and 1938 for France for example (IIRC).

The problem is that it's easier to publish a circle with a number on it, in stuff (sorry for the technical term) like catalogues or ads.

[Hibelroad]

I seem to remember that a few years ago there were complaints that there was nothing like the epoch system for British models. We now have the era system which is a standard for several manufacturers and that appears to work well, however it’s never going to suit everyone. 

[Il Grifone]

I recall that, but, as I said, you then have to learn the eras. The old brain has enough problems with what day it is today, let alone some pointless eras when all you need is to specify the approximate years. These things inevitable overlap anyway. For example GWR livery was still to be seen in the late fifties.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Clive Mortimore]

"Modern Image"

 

I spoke with Cyril Feezer regarding the term "Modern Image". He told me there was an editorial meeting where an edition of the Railway Modeller was going to be about the then recent changes to the railways, during the meeting someone called it the modern Image but he could not remember who first said it. The conversation came about after he said my 1960s diesel depot Pig Lane was the proper modern image. Something he repeated when he saw my later layout Hanging Hill, again 1960s diesel depot.

 

I personally like the idea that Cyril Feezer said my modelling was proper modern image but I say the I am a 1960s modeller. I dislike the term Modern Image used for any layout that has diesel and/or electric traction on it. I also do not like the term Modern Image to apply to a layout that represents from x, y or z years to today, a rolling definition. To me it is now a redundant phrase and should have been left back in the 60s. 

 

 

[roythebus1]

Yes, I agree, modern image to me conjurs up the image of electric blue AL1s and the new AM10s.

[Il Grifone]

Back in the sixties we were nearer to the start of model railways*, than we are today to the sixties (depressing thought!).

* Open to debate (I'm not suggesting we start one!), but I would suggest 1920 with the launch of Hornby trains. They existed before of course but were really only for the well off with plenty of space - gauge 1 was considered small!

[sncf231e]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

* Open to debate (I'm not suggesting we start one!), but I would suggest 1920 with the launch of Hornby trains. They existed before of course but were really only for the well off with plenty of space - gauge 1 was considered small!

After WW1 (i.e. before 1920) the larger gauges were already gone and gauge 1 was the largest available and not considered small. The coaches shown below by BING for BL were made around 1920 but to a pre-war design for gauge 2. They could not been sold and the wheels/axles were replaced for gauge 1 to sell these.

 

Regards

Fred

[Il Grifone]

i did intend pre WW1.

[steve1]

Diesel & Electric Era modelling makes more sense as a description.

 

The now meaningless term ‘Modern Image’ should have been retired year ago.

 

steve

[Reorte]

I've always regarded "Modern Image" to mean "now" (or close to it), so it moves along with time.

[Phil Parker]

29 minutes ago, steve1 said:

Diesel & Electric Era modelling makes more sense as a description.

 

The now meaningless term ‘Modern Image’ should have been retired year ago.

 

steve

 

So, 1948 to today. That's only 74 years! And I'm being generous, I'm sure there are plenty of earlier diesels and electrics.

 

14 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I've always regarded "Modern Image" to mean "now" (or close to it), so it moves along with time.

 

Me too. It works well if you think of it that way. I suppose you could say "present day" or "current", but if you say "Modern image" then this is what I'd be thinking.

[BernardTPM]

I think one defining point with regard to the 'image' part of the phrase would be the creation of the Design Panel in 1956. Before that you might have had the 'modern' part if you count diesel and electric hardware*, but there was little co-ordinated recognition of the 'image' aspect before then**. Given it would then take a few years for the approach to work through perhaps 1960 is as good a cut-off point as any.

 

* AC overhead electrics - LBSCR 1905

** It would not be hard to argue that the 'Big Four' had a better grip on the 'image' side of things by the mid/late 1930s than BR had pre-1956.

Edited July 19, 2022 by BernardTPM

[Clive Mortimore]

The likes of Mike Cole who was scratchbuilding diesel locos in the 1960s were "Modern Image" modellers, they were part of the revolution that was taking place on Britain's railways and with a small number of modellers of the then current scene.

 

The revolution has become institutionalised and the term "Modern Image" for today's railways no longer represents that massive change that took place from June 1957 when D8000 was introduced until 11th August 1968 when 45110 rolled into Liverpool Lime Street 9 minutes late. 

 

The post steam, corporate image (banger blue) continued the change but at a slower pace, was that the "Modern Image" not in its own right it wasn't. It was a continuation.

Secortisation? Not a major change in itself, new management structure and a lick of new paint.

Privatisation ? Again not a big change when it comes to modelling, just another lick of paint and a nice earner if you are a shareholder. I can here the boys in the back row shouting " What about the new stock?" New stock would have been necessary at some point, after all the privatised companies got their monies worth out of late BR corporate image trains like class 317s. 

 

So like Modernisum in art, Modern Image in modelling represents a time period when those bold enough to model the changes that took place in the 1960s against the established school of steam modellers. 

[Reorte]

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The likes of Mike Cole who was scratchbuilding diesel locos in the 1960s were "Modern Image" modellers, they were part of the revolution that was taking place on Britain's railways and with a small number of modellers of the then current scene.

 

The revolution has become institutionalised and the term "Modern Image" for today's railways no longer represents that massive change that took place from June 1957 when D8000 was introduced until 11th August 1968 when 45110 rolled into Liverpool Lime Street 9 minutes late. 

 

The post steam, corporate image (banger blue) continued the change but at a slower pace, was that the "Modern Image" not in its own right it wasn't. It was a continuation.

Secortisation? Not a major change in itself, new management structure and a lick of new paint.

Privatisation ? Again not a big change when it comes to modelling, just another lick of paint and a nice earner if you are a shareholder. I can here the boys in the back row shouting " What about the new stock?" New stock would have been necessary at some point, after all the privatised companies got their monies worth out of late BR corporate image trains like class 317s. 

 

So like Modernisum in art, Modern Image in modelling represents a time period when those bold enough to model the changes that took place in the 1960s against the established school of steam modellers. 

Yes and no; the big, obvious signs of change might not have been so in your face as it was with steam traction going, but conversely you could well argue that the railway of 1980 was in many ways closer to the railway of 1967 than it is today. It's certainly quite a different beast today than it was in 1980 at any rate.

 

This is one reason I find it easier to regard "modern image" as being equivalent to "current", and beyond that just go with general descriptions, e.g. "sectorisation" or "Big 4" or whatever if they happen to be something that suits your layout; another layout even of the same time and (general) place might suit a different description better.

[Clive Mortimore]

32 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Yes and no; the big, obvious signs of change might not have been so in your face as it was with steam traction going, but conversely you could well argue that the railway of 1980 was in many ways closer to the railway of 1967 than it is today. It's certainly quite a different beast today than it was in 1980 at any rate.

 

This is one reason I find it easier to regard "modern image" as being equivalent to "current", and beyond that just go with general descriptions, e.g. "sectorisation" or "Big 4" or whatever if they happen to be something that suits your layout; another layout even of the same time and (general) place might suit a different description better.

So class 317s are no longer Modern Image, as they retired less than seven days ago.

 

So the person who it is claimed came up with the term Modern Image, Cyril Freezer, was wrong when he called my 1960s diesel depot Pig Lane , the real Modern Image?

 

Every day is a school day.

[Reorte]

Just now, Clive Mortimore said:

So class 317s are no longer Modern Image, as they retired less than seven days ago.

 

So the person who it is claimed came up with the term Modern Image, Cyril Freezer, was wrong when he called my 1960s diesel depot Pig Lane , the real Modern Image?

 

Every day is a school day.

Jesus, no need to get so worked up over an opinion.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

Jesus, no need to get so worked up over an opinion.

....."obvious signs of change might not have been so in your face as it was with steam traction going".....

 

Like Modernisum in art, Modern Image in modelling represents a time period when those bold enough to model the changes that took place in the 1960s against the established school of steam modellers. 

[Reorte]

9 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

....."obvious signs of change might not have been so in your face as it was with steam traction going".....

 

Like Modernisum in art, Modern Image in modelling represents a time period when those bold enough to model the changes that took place in the 1960s against the established school of steam modellers. 

Huh? All I meant by "in you face" was "immediately obviously visible," a (relatively) sudden and noticeable change, rather than the overall just as big ones that were not, however, quite so immediately visible or rapid, at least to the average man on the street.

 

I'm not taking issue with your definition of Modern Image, all I'm saying is that it's not what the phrase conjours up in my mind, since what's modern has moved on since the term was coined.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

For me modern image is anything that does not require a shovel to keep it going.