Flying Scotsman 2nd Tender

[Calnefoxile]

I'm trying to find out when Flying Scotsman stopped using it's 2nd Tender and what livery it was in during it's use??

 

I came across a previous RMWeb thread, but it's been archived and doesn't give much information on dates etc.

 

I've managed to find photos of it in the the late 60's in Apple Green and mid 70's in Blue/Grey, but there doesn't seem to be anything after 1974, so was it not used after 1974?? Or was it used in the late 70's/early 80's and if so in what livery??

 

TIA

 

Neal.

 

[phil-b259]

19 minutes ago, Calnefoxile said:

I'm trying to find out when Flying Scotsman stopped using it's 2nd Tender and what livery it was in during it's use??

 

I came across a previous RMWeb thread, but it's been archived and doesn't give much information on dates etc.

 

I've managed to find photos of it in the the late 60's in Apple Green and mid 70's in Blue/Grey, but there doesn't seem to be anything after 1974, so was it not used after 1974?? Or was it used in the late 70's/early 80's and if so in what livery??

 

TIA

 

Neal.

 

It was purchased to solve the problem of loco watering facilities being ripped out by BR after they ditched steam and went with the loco over to the USA (for similar lack of watering facilities reasons)

 

By the time it got back from the USA and returned to main line running the UK the practice of using road tankers to top up at strategic points was being developed and so it had fallen out of use by the 1980s.

[Al.]

I have a recollection of seeing Scotsman with both tenders Doncaster green in my pre-teen years - mid to late 70's. maybe '77 or '78. I can't recall whether it was at Carnforth or on the main line. Unfortunatly all photo of that day out are lost.

 

I believe the tender was repainted Blue/Grey Flying Scotsman Enterprise livery in '78-'79 until it was  purchased by A1 Trust is '92.

 

  

 

 

  

[John M Upton]

Where is it now?

[Al.]

1 minute ago, John M Upton said:

Where is it now?

 

Sat in Margate behind Bittern.

 

 

[Al.]

27 minutes ago, Al. said:

I have a recollection of seeing Scotsman with both tenders Doncaster green in my pre-teen years - mid to late 70's. maybe '77 or '78. I can't recall whether it was at Carnforth or on the main line. Unfortunatly all photo of that day out are lost.

 

I believe the tender was repainted Blue/Grey Flying Scotsman Enterprise livery in '78-'79 until it was  purchased by A1 Trust is '92.

 

  

 

 

  

 

As 08 043 was withdrawn in 1977. I may be out with my dates. It might have been a couple years earlier.

 

 

[russ p]

Did I imagine it or have I seen a picture of it in intercity livery?  Was it only flying scotsman that  was equipped to use it

[Wickham Green too]

I'd GUESS that repainting the tender into blue & grey might have been to enable its use with other locos - but so far as I know that never happened.

[LMS2968]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

I'd GUESS that repainting the tender into blue & grey might have been to enable its use with other locos - but so far as I know that never happened.

Unless the other loco had the necessary hose connections to the second tender, and I don't think any had, it couldn't be so used.

[Wickham Green too]

No, I don't think any other tenders had the necessary fittings either - but there's no reason they couldn't have been added* if a standard had been agreed among loco owners .......... and if watering from tankers hadn't proved more convenient at round about that time.

 

* Obviously balancing water levels with lower tenders could have been problematic.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I'd GUESS that repainting the tender into blue & grey might have been to enable its use with other locos - but so far as I know that never happened.

 

Continuing to guess, perhaps to try to present the locomotive in an approximation to its LNER heyday - camoulaging the second tender as part of the train.

 

I remember seeing Flying Scotsman at Garsdale c. 1987-ish, with just the single tender. That was a water stop, with tanker in attendance. The train came in absolutely silently (it is downhill from Aisgill) but once stopped, the engine blew off - absolutely deafening!

[Edge]

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Continuing to guess, perhaps to try to present the locomotive in an approximation to its LNER heyday - camoulaging the second tender as part of the train.

 

I remember seeing Flying Scotsman at Garsdale c. 1987-ish, with just the single tender. That was a water stop, with tanker in attendance. The train came in absolutely silently (it is downhill from Aisgill) but once stopped, the engine blew off - absolutely deafening!

yes, the blue/grey tender was an attempt to blend into the carriages. The ‘4472’ was reinstated on the cab side for most of the blue/grey tender run, whereas it was carried on the second tender when the whole procession was in apple green.

 

Being a fan of the unusual, I quite like the look of the loco during this period 

 

 

(not my photo, will credit ownership/remove if posting here is a problem)

[rogerzilla]

The chassis of some of its brethren are still in use on Network Rail today, as the chassis of snowploughs.

 

https://blog.railwaymuseum.org.uk/the-gresley-design-that-wont-die/

[Wickham Green too]

Six-wheeled Gresley brethren, that is ...... the only eight-wheeled things that became snowploughs came from class 40 diesels ( less the pony wheels ! ).

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Edge said:

yes, the blue/grey tender was an attempt to blend into the carriages. The ‘4472’ was reinstated on the cab side for most of the blue/grey tender run, whereas it was carried on the second tender when the whole procession was in apple green.

 

Being a fan of the unusual, I quite like the look of the loco during this period 

 

 

(not my photo, will credit ownership/remove if posting here is a problem)

 

Never looked better in my opinion.

[Michael Hodgson]

Perhaps a silly question, but how was the plumbing rigged?  Were the tanks of the two tenders simply connected together by a hose, thus becoming in effect one big tank, or was water from one tender used first, controlled by separate valves?  Did they have to put the bag in twice?  As the second one didn't carry coal, presumably its capacity was increased to be larger than the loco's own tender. 

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, Edge said:

yes, the blue/grey tender was an attempt to blend into the carriages. The ‘4472’ was reinstated on the cab side for most of the blue/grey tender run, whereas it was carried on the second tender when the whole procession was in apple green.

 

Being a fan of the unusual, I quite like the look of the loco during this period 

 

 

(not my photo, will credit ownership/remove if posting here is a problem)

 

There was a group of us looking into this recently. (Hi CFF!)

 

Painting it blue/grey didn't help when it ran with FS's own "Administration Coach" that was painted in choc/cream.... (99056 , ex 34612 - the same coach as seen in blue/grey a few posts upthread)

Flickr pic dated 1977 York

 

Another odd pic turned up with 4472 running with 4498's tender - painted green, but carrying the raised LNER letters.

Edited August 27, 2022 by newbryford

[Morello Cherry]

On the subject of the second tender running with other locos. What was going on here? Is this Bittern running with both FS's old tenders or was Bittern's tender fitted with the pipework to run with the second tender? (I have in my mind that Bittern had a non-corridor tender but my memory could be wrong on that).

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Morello Cherry

[TrevorP1]

6 minutes ago, Morello Cherry said:

On the subject of the second tender running with other locos. What was going on here? Is this Bittern running with both FS's old tenders or was Bittern's tender fitted with the pipework to run with the second tender? (I have in my mind that Bittern had a non-corridor tender but my memory could be wrong on that).

 

 

 

If I remember correctly, when 60019 was overhauled at the MHR it required a new tender body and a corridor version was built.

Some time later when the loco was run out of Southall a new body - with a central corridor - was built for Scotsman’s second tender for use behind the A4.

[Al.]

For those who may be interested, Niu Models do a kit for both Scotsman and Bittern water tenders.

[divibandit]

On 27/08/2022 at 22:50, newbryford said:

 

There was a group of us looking into this recently. (Hi CFF!)

 

Painting it blue/grey didn't help when it ran with FS's own "Administration Coach" that was painted in choc/cream.... (99056 , ex 34612 - the same coach as seen in blue/grey a few posts upthread)

Flickr pic dated 1977 York

 

Another odd pic turned up with 4472 running with 4498's tender - painted green, but carrying the raised LNER letters.

Hi Newbryford,

Curious that you mention that, scrolling through the thread reminded me that SNGs tender was used with Flying Scotsman on 'Mainline Railway Steam-up' on 3rd September 1983. Just for interest, class 86 Euston to Stockport, D200 from Stockport to Leeds. Flying Scotsman to Carlisle with 13 mk1s on a slightly greasy day, then class 81 back to Euston. 

 

Great day!

Steve

[Steamport Southport]

Definitely out of use by about 1980. FS didn't have it at Rainhill or any of the railtours I saw around that date.

 

I remember seeing it at Carnforth looking very forlorn next to FSs cowcatcher about 1981.

 

 

 

Jason

[New Haven Neil]

The body/tank from the tender used to by lying around at Tanfield, but it's 20 years since I was there!

[69843]

On 26/08/2022 at 03:43, Calnefoxile said:

I'm trying to find out when Flying Scotsman stopped using it's 2nd Tender and what livery it was in during it's use??

 

I came across a previous RMWeb thread, but it's been archived and doesn't give much information on dates etc.

 

I've managed to find photos of it in the the late 60's in Apple Green and mid 70's in Blue/Grey, but there doesn't seem to be anything after 1974, so was it not used after 1974?? Or was it used in the late 70's/early 80's and if so in what livery??

 

TIA

 

Neal.

 

I'm a little late to the thread sorry mate, but an answer for you:
Between March 1974 and December 1977 is when the tender was painted Blue and Grey and used behind 4472. However, it only was like this for a very small number of trips, as noted below in this Flickr shot's description. The last use is per Newbryford's post.

Clicking on the photos will take you to Flickr

Of note is the earlier up-thread shot is March 1974, confirmed by finding the photo on Flickr. Given the date and condition, I daresay the 08 is shunting both the second tender and the administration (support) coach out of the paint shop, in brand new fresh paint.

I hope this helps, even if a little belatedly.

Edited April 2 by 69843