Revolution announce Class 120 in N

[D9020 Nimbus]

I suspect the additional costs involved in creating the "conductive" coupling outweighs the cost of an additional decoder—especially in the case of a 2-car unit, particularly as it isn't planned, AFAIK, to make this available sound fitted. To put it bluntly, I'm less likely to buy one if it has "conductive" couplings.

[Kaput]

In an ideal world where decent decoders were readily available it might make sense to take the feedback onboard and go back to multiple decoders and non conductive couplers.

 

But when its like now and trying to even get a single Zimo decoder for a model is a nightmare I can understand the logic in trying to make the models single decoder.

 

 

If it was remotely possible to use, the Pendolino's couplers seemed fine to me but they only carried 2 wires for pickups.

[Brian-1c]

2 hours ago, Kaput said:

 

If it was remotely possible to use, the Pendolino's couplers seemed fine to me but they only carried 2 wires for pickups.

 

Which would be fine, it would enhance electrical pickup, as would a stay alive and provide a bus internal to the model. All the decoders would get constant power.

[woodenhead]

With electrical continuity throughout the train and pickups on all wheels there would be little benefit in a capacitor 

[Benn]

The situation with regards to the availability of decoders is likely to be a temporary one, so hopefully that will pass at some point in the near future and not be a problem.

 

Even using the two-wire coupling found on the Pendolino will render you with the same restrictive situation on the 120 as already mentioned, and still require you to have two decoders... 

You will lose flexibility and not be able to couple it up to other classes of vehicle because you will not have NEM pockets on the inner ends, and you will not be able to adjust the gap between cars for the same reason. You will still have a coupling design with fragile contacts that can become damaged or problematic with repeated coupling and uncoupling, and be a challenge and costly to repair or replace. You will still be paying for the design, manufacture and assembly of said conductive coupling in the RRP. 

 

A vehicle the length of a DMU with 4 conducting axles per car should not need any assistance with power pickup in my opinion. My Farish units and Dapol 121 & 2s perform very well. Weight and a good pickup design are essential and will make all the difference with that.

The Dapol single car units needed weight adding to make them perform better, as the below-window drive mechanism in these DMUs doesn't allow for enough weight in the chassis block. The Farish 'motor block' may be a bit old skool and visible through a few windows of one car, but it's ultra reliable and robust, easy to service, heavy and runs very well. The haulage capability is also very good considering it's only driving one bogie, it will easily handle 3-4 trailer cars and a tail load. The Farish CEP EMU is powered by the same design.

[Mike Buckner]

6 minutes ago, Benn said:

The Dapol single car units needed weight adding to make them perform better, as the below-window drive mechanism in these DMUs doesn't allow for enough weight in the chassis block.

 

I bought two OO Dapol Class 121 railcars. Both of them stutter and stall, on good track that does not trouble other stock. And the lights flicker constantly.

I would be enormously grateful for tips on where/how to add weight(s).

 

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Steven B]

I'm also not a fan of the current implementation of conductive coupling. As much as I like the idea of a single decoder as well as being chunkier than a standard Rapido there's also no option to increase or decrease the coupling gap to suit the layout.

 

I'm intrigued by those running hybrid units (i.e. two types in a single unit, rather than two classes multipled together).

This link should take you to a photo of a class 120 with a class 101 centre car:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/24529

 

Anyone found photos others of a 120 being part of a hybrid unit with a 101 or 108?

 

@Revolution Ben any idea when you're planning on releasing details of the livery and 2/3 car combinations you're making?

 

Steven B.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Steven B

[64F]

33 minutes ago, Steven B said:

I'm intrigued by those running hybrid units (i.e. two types in a single unit, rather than two classes multipled together).

This link should take you to a photo of a class 120 with a class 101 centre car:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/24529

 

Anyone found photos others of a 120 being part of a hybrid unit with a 101 or 108?

 

That was very common, especially in the final days of the 120s in Scotland in the late '80s.  The 120 centre cars were all withdrawn before the last of the driving motors so the last survivors invariably ran with an odd trailer and sometimes a mismatched driving motor at the other end.  This one is a real oddball though - a 120/101/105 lashup, all in different liveries:(from Flickr)

 

 

[Benn]

Mike - mine were N not OO, but all I did was purchase some 'fish tank plant weight' lead, which is a thin strip on a roll, and run a couple of lengths inside under the roof which clips off the N ones as a separate part so really easy to do. Made the world of difference.

 

Steven - I'm a big fan of hybrid DMU sets and mix up all my vehicles, classes and liveries, on my layouts including cab-to-gangway end situations which you don't often see modelled but regularly occurred. Makes for a much more interesting train and often more prototypical than a set of all the same type in all the same livery, all the right way round! I also use long and short dummy knuckle couplers to bring the gangways to almost touching which also makes a big difference visually. Out of the box, you can park a double decker bus between the gangways...

[Mike Buckner]

4 hours ago, Benn said:

Mike - mine were N not OO, but all I did was purchase some 'fish tank plant weight' lead, which is a thin strip on a roll, and run a couple of lengths inside under the roof which clips off the N ones as a separate part so really easy to do. Made the world of difference.

 

Many thanks for that - will give it a try!

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

[billy_anorak59]

19 hours ago, Steven B said:

Anyone found photos others of a 120 being part of a hybrid unit with a 101 or 108?

 

Looks like one here, judging by the roof vents. I never saw one on this line, but here it is  - probably one of the 80s Chester allocation, and taken at Bromborough Station after I'd moved away from the area.

 

[woodenhead]

Any news on the CADs @Revolution Ben@Revolution Mike

[Revolution Ben]

 

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Any news on the CADs @Revolution Ben@Revolution Mike

 

No.  If there is any news we will put it on our website and update our project page.  We don't hold back, if there is something to say we will say it!
 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

 

No.  If there is any news we will put it on our website and update our project page.  We don't hold back, if there is something to say we will say it!
 

cheers

 

Ben A.

There is at least one cassette with a three coach space just wanting to be filled.....

[montyburns56]

19 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Any news on the CADs @Revolution Ben@Revolution Mike

 

Hey, these guys are working hard to bring us new models, there's no need for insults like that!

[johnlambert]

Going back to the coupling question; I'd definitely prefer standard NEM pockets so that I can mix the 120 with my other 1st generation DMU vehicles.  And I would also buy a 119 if it was offered in the future.

[Stefen1988]

Can't wait for the Variant in Green (nsyp) with a Scottish Prefix.

 

[Covkid]

On 01/02/2023 at 07:52, Steven B said:

I'm also not a fan of the current implementation of conductive coupling. As much as I like the idea of a single decoder as well as being chunkier than a standard Rapido there's also no option to increase or decrease the coupling gap to suit the layout.

 

I'm intrigued by those running hybrid units (i.e. two types in a single unit, rather than two classes multipled together).

This link should take you to a photo of a class 120 with a class 101 centre car:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/24529

 

Anyone found photos others of a 120 being part of a hybrid unit with a 101 or 108?

 

@Revolution Ben any idea when you're planning on releasing details of the livery and 2/3 car combinations you're making?

 

Steven B.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 03:29, billy_anorak59 said:

 

Looks like one here, judging by the roof vents. I never saw one on this line, but here it is  - probably one of the 80s Chester allocation, and taken at Bromborough Station after I'd moved away from the area.

 

 

The Swindon Cross Country units saw their centre cars removed in the very 1980s and Mrt Camm trailers inserted instead. IMHO fully formed three car Swindon Cross Country sets became quite rare from 1984-1985

[woodenhead]

My 128 will arrive tomorrow, I need a new train to pre-pay for...

[montyburns56]

An interesting picture by Tom Burnham of one pulling a tail load at Matlock in 1972

 

 

[woodenhead]

@Revolution Ben any progress on the model?

[Revolution Ben]

14 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

@Revolution Ben any progress on the model?

 

Hi there,

 

Yes - but nothing we are in a position to share online.  if you're at Model World Live at the NEC this weekend we'd be happy to give more info in person.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

[Steven B]

Do you know when you'll be announcing what combinations of liveries and set lengths you plan to produce?

 

Steven B

[Roy L S]

I am not going to Model World Live, but would still be interested in an update, not least because there hasn't been a huge amount of info provided since the original announcement. As far as I know, we have been told thus far that the unit will use a development of the 128 chassis as a power unit (hopefully with an improved speaker arrangement) will be available in two or three car sets depending on livery and we have been shown some illustrative artworks.

 

What hasn't yet been confirmed as far as I can recall (and apologies if it has) is what DCC socket will be used, whether one or two decoders will be needed, or the sets will be electrically connected via conductive couplings, if internal lighting will be fitted or a retro fit option like the Pendo (I hope the latter as I prefer not to have it) or indeed whether for this one sound options will be available.

 

I don't think anyone would expect to see an EP yet, never mind pricing, but some kind of update would be most helpful.

 

Roy

[Mike Harvey]

I wonder how many people are anxiously wanting to know the DCC interface details before Révolution have the full details nailed down. Will knowing the details mean they go out and buy decoders even before ordering the train?