Hornby announce TT:120

[Jeff Smith]

47 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

All you need to get trains running is a suitably new digital device with the HM|DCC app installed.

 

Here is the power supply - it appears to be the same as the one that came with my Scotsman (the writing is very tiny and my magnifying glass isn't really up to the job! Old age creeping up...).

 

I don't know how many locos it will power but I guess I could just plug in another one if I needed to.

 

Ok, in my final demonstration of ignorance on this - the power supply seems to have a 15vdc output so does the Bluetooth connect directly to the chip?

[Porfuera]

25 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Ok, in my final demonstration of ignorance on this - the power supply seems to have a 15vdc output so does the Bluetooth connect directly to the chip?

 

Yes - the control is via Bluetooth and the signals don't go through the rails. Hornby's isn't the only Bluetooth system that works in this way.

 

The Bluetooth decoders will also work via 'normal' DCC - I had to control my Blink Bonny this way until the Android app was released.

 

You can mix both Bluetooth and 'normal' DCC locos together on the same layout but you need normal DCC for the non-Bluetooth ones.

 

Hornby is releasing a dongle that I believe will allow 'normal' DCC locos to be controlled via Hornby's Bluetooth app but it requires a specific protocol and a physical socket that not all DCC systems have. Notably their own eLink system doesn't have the socket (although I know next to nothing about eLink besides that fact!).

 

So I've paid £212.49 for a complete DCC system including train and track, thanks to having a mobile device that will run Hornby's free app. I think that's pretty good value. They also make very pleasing noises.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Porfuera

[Jeff Smith]

So the Bluetooth decoders will accept either 15v DC or AC?

[Porfuera]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

So the Bluetooth decoders will accept either 15v DC or AC?

 

I believe so, yes. But as I mentioned you need to be careful with older DC controllers. Originally Hornby said you could use a DC controller whacked up to full chat and run it on that but they later rowed back from that because some older controllers can have very spiky output. Much froth ensued following that announcement.

 

Some say that you can also use power supplies like laptop chargers but Hornby advise that you need to make sure that they have overload protection (I think) because they would naturally prefer you to buy their own more expensive 4amp supply. As with all things you pays your money and you takes your choice with things like that.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Porfuera

[Jeff Smith]

Thank you, and that concludes the lesson for today!

[Porfuera]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Thank you, and that concludes the lesson for today!

 

I hope I got everything right! I'm sure I'll be corrected if I haven't.

 

There are lots of different ways to enjoy model railways but it is always interesting to find out about new things, I think.

[britishcolumbian]

On 03/08/2023 at 01:41, teletougos said:

120 is a magic number that allows compatibility with overseas scales. Somehow this is impossible for any other number to do. 

It kinda is, though. The only thing *almost* compatible with a British model railway scale is British N with Japanese N, which is 1:150 - so you could use Japanese road vehicles and buildings and suchlike and vice versa... but that's it.

 

It is also impossible for another number to do, because it has to be a number that the rest of the world uses - and 87 is too close to 76, and 160 is too close to 148, so there's no point in trying to start British outline H0 or N:160, because there's really no benefit over any existing British scale other than being correct to gauge. So this leaves 1:120 as the only possible option.

 

Hooray for us hardcore TTers!

[Ravenser]

17 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

It kinda is, though. The only thing *almost* compatible with a British model railway scale is British N with Japanese N, which is 1:150 - so you could use Japanese road vehicles and buildings and suchlike and vice versa... but that's it.

 

It is also impossible for another number to do, because it has to be a number that the rest of the world uses - and 87 is too close to 76, and 160 is too close to 148, so there's no point in trying to start British outline H0 or N:160, because there's really no benefit over any existing British scale other than being correct to gauge. So this leaves 1:120 as the only possible option.

 

Hooray for us hardcore TTers!

 

7mm /foot 1:43 Gauge O is also used in France, Australia and some other countries

[leonk]

On 03/08/2023 at 23:39, teletougos said:

Everywhere except Australia. 

 

I don't know about that, it's quite handy for modelling all the 3 foot 6 narrow gauge in this country in HO scale.

[Moxy]

4 hours ago, leonk said:

 

I don't know about that, it's quite handy for modelling all the 3 foot 6 narrow gauge in this country in HO scale.

 

I agree, TT120 will be of great use to those of us who model narrow gauge in H0 (and 00 for that matter). I  think what Teletougos was referring to was the unique distribution arrangments Hornby have for Australia, which prevent them from selling direct into Australia (like they do for the rest of the world).

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, Moxy said:

I agree, TT120 will be of great use to those of us who model narrow gauge in H0 (and 00 for that matter).

00n3 was quite popular when Triang TT was available, especially before RTR N gauge and Eggerbahn etc. made 009 easier to do. I wonder if it’ll become popular again.

 

12 hours ago, leonk said:

 

I don't know about that, it's quite handy for modelling all the 3 foot 6 narrow gauge in this country in HO scale.

Also the associated scenic items might make it easier to model 3’ 6” in 1:120 on 9mm gauge (as is sometimes done for NZ prototypes). Although admittedly for UK NG TTn3 (3mm scale on 9mm gauge) is probably more useful.

[teletougos]

13 hours ago, leonk said:

 

I don't know about that, it's quite handy for modelling all the 3 foot 6 narrow gauge in this country in HO scale.

Fair. It was just an SMS joke. 

[steve1]

I noticed in the latest issue of Hornby magazine that Cheltenham Models have been appointed as an Official Hornby TT-120 dealer. Presumably they will be followed by others in due course.

 

So the direct sales idea didn’t last long then…

 

steve

[Hobby]

19 minutes ago, steve1 said:

I noticed in the latest issue of Hornby magazine that Cheltenham Models have been appointed as an Official Hornby TT-120 dealer. Presumably they will be followed by others in due course.

 

So the direct sales idea didn’t last long then…

 

It was announced back in June, both by Hornby and then people on this thread, FB and Hornby's forum! SK always said that they would sell via shops in due course, the only question was when. I've a feeling we debated the reasons/timing back in June, but with no real conclusion, however it was clear that DS was simply done to launch it, in Australia it's always been shops (via a rip-off wholesaler unfortunately)...

[steve1]

3 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

It was announced back in June, both by Hornby and then people on this thread, FB and Hornby's forum! SK always said that they would sell via shops in due course, the only question was when. I've a feeling we debated the reasons/timing back in June, but with no real conclusion, however it was clear that DS was simply done to launch it, in Australia it's always been shops (via a rip-off wholesaler unfortunately)...

 

Fair dos. I didn’t plod my way back through the whole thread and I’m not on the Hornby forum.

 

steve

[Hobby]

I wouldn't bother going back, it's in amongst some froth about something else not TT related. I think GM were the first to announce they were stocking it and there's now about 5 stockists, including Peter's Spares for spares. I can't remember who the others are but no doubt someone will be along shortly with a list!

 

EDIT: List here:

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/official-stockist

Edited August 7, 2023 by Hobby

[charliepetty]

I take it the Hornby Direct sale approach did not work then !!!!

 

More people to retire I assume.

[jonnyuk]

3 minutes ago, charliepetty said:

I take it the Hornby Direct sale approach did not work then !!!!

 

More people to retire I assume.

what makes you say that? i would assume it did work,it allowed Hornby to create a market for TT by keeping prices lower, sales have been good,  they took the risk. Now its got going the retailers are less exposed and hopefully the scale will grow further.

[Phil Parker]

I am reliably told that the original reason for direct sales was to reduce the number of models produced in the first run. If all the model shops had to be supplied with a set, that's another 300+ to be made, and Hornby wasn't that confident in the initial stages. Introducing a new scale is a big risk after all.

 

So, the move to model shop sales represents success, rather than failure.

[Ravenser]

9 hours ago, charliepetty said:

I take it the Hornby Direct sale approach did not work then !!!!

 

More people to retire I assume.

 

 

Most TT items - particularly sets - seem to have sold out via the Hornby website , often several times , then reverted to pre-order awaiting the next batch. The main exception has been the 08, which was not made available in sets, and is the most recent loco.

 

Given that the Financial Report and Annual Report both say that they have struggled to keep adequete stocks of sets in the shop (you can be selective in what you say and apply positive spin in such documents, but you can't tell investors actual  lies), the website could equally well be seen as a way of rationing supply down to demand. Everything produced available to meet demand , no dead stock sitting at A while B turns away buyers .. You can't actually sell more stuff than you produce

 

Hornby are in fact copying the business model of many of the "new boy" manufacturers - start by selling only direct and largely to pre-order , then widen out to a small number of  selected stockists . The "Aussie model" - see the likes of Eureka, Aucision - or closer to home Cavalex and RevolutioN.  This is a niche scale, after all. Not every model shop stocks Gauge O - and many have only a small sprinkling of items 

 

Trying to promote TT:120 as a a random handful of boxes in a dusty corner of every model shop in the land makes little sense . The idea of launching it as a single sample set in every model shop in the country just doesn't feel sensible . Having a small number of specialists who hold the range in depth would seem more effective . How that would sit with Hornby's existing relationships with the retail trade was always a moot point

 

It is probably unsurprising that a number of substantial mail-order box shifters are involved (Cheltenham Model Centre, Gaugemaster, TMC - and I gather Chester Model Centre are a substantial operation) . What is more of a surprise is to see some smaller shops like Bure Valley listed. (Personally I don't expect to see the list of retailers expand very much in the short term)_

 

It is also interesting that Kernow, who were thought to be on board, are not. Hornby TT is not being listed on their website - there are several suggestive empty sections there.

 

Meantime Hornby continue selling the stuff vigourously via their website , and the Board are evidently happy enough with sales so far to announce the next tranche of 6 locos going forward for production. That is probably the acid test - are they happy enough with sales to date to approve spending more money on tooling up further models? You can't and don't fake that kind of spending

 

 

[natterjack]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

How that would sit with Hornby's existing relationships with the retail trade was always a moot point

From what I can gather from the 'retailers list' there are none yet within the London area, Scotland, the North East etc, etc. Whatever the reasons, there remains swathes of the UK population unable to physically see before they buy, or simply being tempted to buy by seeing.

 

It would appear we are in the earliest 'baby steps' phase of retail distribution and that Hornby will have to be dead sure of demand before raising production quantities to support wider trade outlet.

 

 

[teletougos]

19 hours ago, charliepetty said:

I take it the Hornby Direct sale approach did not work then !!!!

 

More people to retire I assume.

??? It was in their plan to do it for a while to launch the scale.

 

So as the scale is - as you can see, launched ?? - the purpose is achieved. It did work. 

[Hroth]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

I gather Chester Model Centre are a substantial operation

 

CMC was one of Hornbys "special" retailers years ago and tended to have more stuff than other model shops, so it might be that that sort of relationship is being revitalised.

 

CMC were at Pete Watermans giant OO layouts at Chester Cathedral in both '21 and '22 and I wouldn't be surprised if they were there this year.  If Hornby are keen on pushing TT:120 to the public, I would imagine that there will be stock on display, plus the catalogue.  I'm going to visit Chester on Monday, so I'll keep an eye open!

 

 

 

[teletougos]

On 07/08/2023 at 21:18, Ravenser said:

 

 

It is also interesting that Kernow, who were thought to be on board, are not. Hornby TT is not being listed on their website - there are several suggestive empty sections there.

 

 

 

 

They had a little -  Peco - TT track but that's about it. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by teletougos

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

CMC was one of Hornbys "special" retailers years ago and tended to have more stuff than other model shops, so it might be that that sort of relationship is being revitalised.

 

CMC were at Pete Watermans giant OO layouts at Chester Cathedral in both '21 and '22 and I wouldn't be surprised if they were there this year.  If Hornby are keen on pushing TT:120 to the public, I would imagine that there will be stock on display, plus the catalogue.  I'm going to visit Chester on Monday, so I'll keep an eye open!

 

 

 

I was there myself yesterday and indeed they did have a couple of items that were on sale. I actually helded up a Farish N-gauge Class 66 and TT Pullman coach together to compare them in size!

 

I also be going again before the beginning of September as I had forgotten my phone to take pictures!