Euston - we have a problem

[298]

17 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Sorry to hear, the main thing is no one was injured which sadly is not always the case in tail lift incidents. I am surprised that bearing in mind pallets are not square that the driver didn't reposition the pump truck through 90 degrees before putting it on the tail lift. Or as the guy on the ground had a pump truck why the driver didn't present it on the tail lift straight and then remove his pump truck

 

Depends if they were using the same pallet truck throughout or using both that is quicker but moves some of the liabity from the haulier as unloading it from the tail lift platform is probably still their job and interference could invalidate the insurance.

 

Some pallet trucks have to be used lengthways with a pallet, going in widthways means it might not fit or could damage the underside of the pallet when the forks are lifted. The pump truck at the top end obviously fitted but should have been used repositioned to be lengthways like you said. 

[F-UnitMad]

17 hours ago, Trevor Hammond said:

I wonder if the lorry driver still has a job?

And people wonder why there's a shortage of truck drivers and it's a job nobody wants!!??!! The first thing that goes wrong - ooh, sack the driver!! Better still, lynch him from the nearest lamp post!! 👍👍👍👍

I did many years of driving & delivering off tail lifts - the Company I worked for specced proper man-sized tail lifts for their trucks - about 8ft square in area - you could pull a pallet onto it and turn it around completely on the tail lift. Even then there were sometimes mishaps, but no driver was ever sacked or had wages docked as a result, thank you very much. 🙄  that one in the video looks like it was specced by an Accountant - far too small for the job and not safe at all. The driver (or maybe 2nd man?) didn't look particularly competent, either, admitedly. There are always different levels of experience that people have - or don't have, as the case may be.

As for side guards, that hydraulic type of tail lift in the video, that either folds up flat against the back doors, or folds & stows under the rear, doesn't tend to have them. The type that does is the type that slides up & down on a rail system. The hazard with that type is that they don't form a nice ramp at ground level, but the guard plates are let down, leaving a still quite steep drop from platform to ground. Plenty of scope for trouble there.

[Ian J.]

Much as I grind my teeth at our litigious society stopping anyone from helping to avoid accidents in the first place, as might be the case here, I will shut my mouth as where litigation is concerned it's best left to those involved to sort out without any 'interference' from internet commenters.

[Tomathee]

Bravo on the refreshing openness of your approach to the problem and communicating the plan. 

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

The driver (or maybe 2nd man?) didn't look particularly competent, either, admitedly. There are always different levels of experience that people have - or don't have, as the case may be.

 

 

Well, that driver's got more experience now.

He''s probably also got a nickname as a result of this.

[CUCKOO LINE]

I liked the one on Rapidos Facebook "should have gone to Specsavers "

[AY Mod]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

He''s probably also got a nickname as a result of this.

 

"Drops right at your door" Dave.

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

"Drops right at your door" Dave.

 

Dyna Drop Dave?

 

Mike.

[Trevor Hammond]

7 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

And people wonder why there's a shortage of truck drivers and it's a job nobody wants!!??!! The first thing that goes wrong - ooh, sack the driver!! Better still, lynch him from the nearest lamp post!! 👍👍👍👍

I did many years of driving & delivering off tail lifts - the Company I worked for specced proper man-sized tail lifts for their trucks - about 8ft square in area - you could pull a pallet onto it and turn it around completely on the tail lift. Even then there were sometimes mishaps, but no driver was ever sacked or had wages docked as a result, thank you very much. 🙄  that one in the video looks like it was specced by an Accountant - far too small for the job and not safe at all. The driver (or maybe 2nd man?) didn't look particularly competent, either, admitedly. There are always different levels of experience that people have - or don't have, as the case may be.

As for side guards, that hydraulic type of tail lift in the video, that either folds up flat against the back doors, or folds & stows under the rear, doesn't tend to have them. The type that does is the type that slides up & down on a rail system. The hazard with that type is that they don't form a nice ramp at ground level, but the guard plates are let down, leaving a still quite steep drop from platform to ground. Plenty of scope for trouble there.

 

Exactly where did I say "Sack the driver"? I merely asked an idle question as to how his employer may view the incident.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Trevor Hammond

[Wickham Green too]

53 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

... must insurers won't cover packaging damage if the product is ok.  ...

Don't they watch Antiques Roadshow ? ...... anything's worth zillions of times as much if the box is a) present and b) mint ! 🙄

[F-UnitMad]

17 hours ago, Trevor Hammond said:

 

Exactly where did I say "Sack the driver"? I merely asked an idle question as to how his employer may view the incident.

You didn't have to, the implication was there with your 'idle thought' - which seems, in a very general sense, to get applied to lorry drivers more than most.

We've all been in the pub, there's the unmistakable sound of smashed glass as a member of bar staff has a butter-fingers moment. A huge cheer goes up, but does anyone think "do they still have a job?", or "how will their employer view that?"

Your post gets misdelivered one time,  or you get someone else's post by mistake. Is your first thought about the postie "do they still have a job?", or "how will their employer view that?" I suspect not.....

21 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

"Drops right at your door" Dave.

 

21 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Dyna Drop Dave?

 

Mike.

I was thinking of something more succinct, maybe "Puberty".

 

..... because he just dropped.a b*****k.... 🙄😉

[adb968008]

£117k of Rapido Dynamometers snuffed in one video.

 

Now if the driver knew the value upfront would he have handled that load differently ?

 

That tail lift looked rubbish, with the upward ramp on it, and pushing the stuff over that ramp, it looks like a 2 man job, or a different trolley, at least thats easy for me to say sat in my arm chair.

 

As much as I think sometimes people should help, its a 50/50 thing, if he’d helped it might not have happened, if he did and it still happened then he’d be sharing the blame.

 

I feel for Rapido having to check everyone. Thats a big effort to go to, that obviously factors into the damage cost, as does cost of replacements.. Might it be easier just to send it back and let China sort it ?

 

 

 

 

 

[SHMD]

That tail lift does look "dodgy", if only from a safety point of view, let alone considering the value of product delivered throughout the lifetime of the truck.

 

This is of course no use to Rapido now but here's a tail lift I saw yesterday, after watching Rapido's video in post 1.

It's wide and has simple little lift up "stop boards" - and all just for moving linen safely!

 

Once, or twice a year, I have to move scientific instruments. These cost well over half a million each (and over a ton each) and invariable an air suspension tail lift lorry is specified for transport.

The insurance liabilities are clearly defined and everyone is very careful. Communication, during the "man handling" of the instrument is key so that everyone involved knows exactly what to do and when.

 

I must admit, for £117k worth of product I would have done a Risk assessment before hand, as I do for instrument moves.

 

 

Kev.

[jjb1970]

There's a difference between intervening and ending up sharing liability, and telling someone what they're doing is daft and they might want to think about pausing and figuring out another way to do whatever it is they're attempting. I do the latter sometimes on the street, if I'm walking by someone doing something stupid like grinding without eye protection, I'll often suggest the person concerned really should reconsider, 90% of times it results in a loud string of expletives but at least I can walk on and tell myself if the idiot blinds himself I tried to help. In about 10% of times people apologize and go and grab a face shield or whatever.

It's quite common that for high value deliveries the customer will ask to review the method statement and lift plans to get whatever it is on and off the truck, as it's not just about 'sort it out with your insurer' if there are large consequential damages, delays to projects etc.

[F-UnitMad]

4 minutes ago, SHMD said:

and all just for moving linen safely!

"just" linen..?? Ever moved a cage full of linen? It's heavy stuff, you don't want a cage rolling away 'unsupervised'!!

Agree with your general post, there are much better designs of tail lift out there than the puny one Rapido were unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of. 

"Risk assessment" might sound a bit OTT, but in terms of Rapido's incident, a very quick & easy on-the-spot'  assessment was that the pallet was wider in one dimension than the tail lift, and also seems to lack full width boards underneath, so should not have been turned the way it was on the tail lift. I expect none of the other pallets were turned, afterwards. As I said earlier, maybe a touch of driver inexperience involved.

[Ian J.]

I wonder if there was only one driver/unloader, for what looks like at least a two person job. Delivery companies these days are trying so much to save on personnel costs it wouldn't surprise me if there was only one.

[F-UnitMad]

I also meant to add - I have seen inside Parcelfarce & other such sorting centres. I can assure everyone that parcels of all sizes need to stand up to a lot more abuse than just falling off the back of a lorry during their journeys. In fact it's a wonder anything arrives anywhere undamaged, especially model trains. Anyone who thinks parcels are treated with kid gloves at all times is seriously naive.

 

Here's a recent delivery I had. I would've thought adhesive paste being delivered by Courier would've been far better packaged....

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

9 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I also meant to add - I have seen inside Parcelfarce & other such sorting centres. I can assure everyone that parcels of all sizes need to stand up to a lot more abuse than just falling off the back of a lorry during their journeys. In fact it's a wonder anything arrives anywhere undamaged, especially model trains. Anyone who thinks parcels are treated with kid gloves at all times is seriously naive.

 

Here's a recent delivery I had. I would've thought adhesive paste being delivered by Courier would've been far better packaged....

 

 

Packaging could have been worse. 

But for the box, there would probably have been goo all over everything else in the mailbag!

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

... and telling someone what they're doing is daft and they might want to think about pausing and figuring out another way to do whatever it is they're attempting. ...

In the time it's taken for you to type that - or for me to read it - the accident would have happened in this case : too late for a pause .......... moreover, intervening before it happens may distract or even annoy the driver, making the almost-inevitable inevitable. 

[jjb1970]

9 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

In the time it's taken for you to type that - or for me to read it - the accident would have happened in this case : too late for a pause .......... moreover, intervening before it happens may distract or even annoy the driver, making the almost-inevitable inevitable. 

 

If I watch the video it's pretty obviously an accident about to happen with plenty of time for the guy watching it all to shout stop. In this case it's an embarrassing mistake for the delivery company and presumably an insurance payout but in very slightly different circumstances it could have been very nasty.

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

If I watch the video it's pretty obviously an accident about to happen...

Definitely a sign of the times. Back when I was mucking about with tail lifts and pallet trucks it wasn't being filmed all the time, as CCTV wasn't that common yet, & mobile phones, also rare, didn't have cameras or video anyway!! 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, F-UnitMad said:

Definitely a sign of the times.

 

I had the good sense to destroy a warehouse door with a forklift before the days of You've been Framed.

[Wickham Green too]

The other thing to bear in mind is that we - the CCTV - have a very different viewing angle to the guy on the ground.

[37114]

5 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I wonder if there was only one driver/unloader, for what looks like at least a two person job. Delivery companies these days are trying so much to save on personnel costs it wouldn't surprise me if there was only one.

Pallet deliveries always have been a 1 person delivery, having a second person involved would have put that person in risk of danger if they had been stood on a tail lift. And adds significantly to the cost which no one wants to pay...

 

As @F-UnitMad said that tail lift was too small. Obviously the bigger tail lift, the more weight but it is not worth compromising. For various reasons I can't and don't want to go into, I spend a lot of time with my team making sure we get the right tail lifts for the job including fitting side gates/plates to minimise pallets falling off but also the much more serious issue of someone falling off the taillif.

[37114]

5 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I also meant to add - I have seen inside Parcelfarce & other such sorting centres. I can assure everyone that parcels of all sizes need to stand up to a lot more abuse than just falling off the back of a lorry during their journeys. In fact it's a wonder anything arrives anywhere undamaged, especially model trains. Anyone who thinks parcels are treated with kid gloves at all times is seriously naive.

 

Here's a recent delivery I had. I would've thought adhesive paste being delivered by Courier would've been far better packaged....

 

 

I know which retailer you didn't buy that from as the packaging on that was never going to cut it with a plastic tub; paints and sealants really need to be in a metal tin with proper top and bottom packaging. I get plenty of pics from our parcel carrier when one of our stores runs out of the proper packaging and chances it...