Graham Farish Winter 2022 announcements

[Roy L S]

6 minutes ago, fezza said:

The jury is certainly out on TT but don't assume detail and fidelity is what sells - good running and fun sells too. Kato N is now getting a bigger following in the UK - some of it is slightly crude by Farish standards but it is a complete system, it runs well and things rarely break. Everything is plug and play - very important for the modern market. And it's fun.

 

If Hornby can build a mass market around TT by offering a complete system and range (doing what Kato have done in N) they will be successful. Yes I know Japan is a much bigger market but that market has been built on a record of great products at sensible prices from the major Japanese N gauge manufacturers.

 

Hornby can't afford TT to fail. They aren't investing that amount of money in TT without having done a lot of market research. 

 

Let's hope Farish benefit from the competition rather than retract even further into a specialist niche collector market.

 

I have been modelling in British N since my teens from the mid 70s and I don't "assume" detail and fidelity sells in the N market, I know it does. Of course, it is a given that models must also run well. they can't just look pretty (think some early Dapol steam). Kato may be a complete system in Japan, and possibly the US too but in the UK there is but one train in 1:148 so it is largely an irrelevance in the context of what we are discussing, 

 

Hornby maybe cannot afford TT120 to fail, but ultimately it will be the Market that decides whether it does or not. and to be fair, that Market may be a different one completely to British N, certainly that seems to be Simon K's vision, but it remains to be seen whether it exists to the extent Hornby believes.

 

As to some kind of conspiracy theory regarding the price of Farish products and that they are starving the Market to keep prices high, respectfully I think that it completely and utterly wrong. Prices of raw materials have rocketed, the cost of power has gone up, wages have risen in China over the last few years and shipping costs have reached levels that would never have been envisaged a few years back. Given the detail of Farish models, it requires a lot of parts and therefore greater assembly time and here they are especially vulnerable to wage costs and retention of skilled staff. Bachmann (and others) have to make a profit to survive, and products will be priced to the end-user with that in mind. They do not make obscene margins and nor do their retailers, but no business will survive long pricing at a loss. Will the next run of Mk1s be £80? I think that is very unlikely, but to allow sufficient margin for everyone, somewhere in the high £40's seems conceivable.

 

Where I absolutely do agree with you is that Bachmann's GF product range of late includes far too many obscure and "niche" items, and this appears to be at the expense of the production of "bread and butter" items. British N is much more of a modeller's scale than a collector's one and as I have already said, Bachmann do need to wake up to this and prioritise production accordingly. 

 

I noticed in my Bachmann Times that as well as the items announced, previously announced re-runs of the Class 24 and Warship also appear to be due in the New Year which is a positive sign, but what troubles me most of all is the lack of steam coming through, especially in BR liveries, like green diesels they always sell like hot cakes. 

 

Anyway, time will tell, but perhaps it is more likely to be the likes of Sonic, RevolutioN and Rapido who give Bachmann the "wake up call" as far as British N is concerned, rather than Hornby?

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

[Ed-farms]

4 hours ago, fezza said:

Don't be surprised if a coach that had an RRP of £40 just a few years ago is £80 in the next batch... Farish know there are desperate people who will pay the price - almost any price it seems if one looks at auction sites 

 

You have to consider supply and demand here, they did argue at one time the price of a wagon (Seacow?) would be £50 each if done again, yet thats the price they sell for on eBay. Does the lack of supply push the price up here where more people are chasing the same few. Would a shop manage to sell 10-20 Mk2F TSO's in blue and grey at £80 each if the market contains has 1000 out there? Or is it the fact that 1 or 2 appears at a time that keeps prices high?

[John M Upton]

I can't help thinking that Hornby going all in on TT just as the UK economy is being flushed well and truly around the proverbial U-Bend does not bode well.

[TomE]

We won't know what research Hornby have done for sure. They assert that due to homes getting smaller people will be looking for smaller models. If that is the case, why hasn't the N Gauge market, with an established and expansive product range (even with lack of Farish products) not closed the gap between it and OO Gauge? Could it be the case that space is not the big concern it is often made out to be?  

Hornby are facing fierce competition in OO from new comers to the industry who are more nimble, have less financial baggage and, lets face it, are producing better products, plus a Bachmann stepping up to counter that, leaving Hornby somewhat behind and now looking to their past. They are banking on brand recognition and bringing back a long dead scale with no competition in UK outline in the hope they can capture that market to make up some of what it's lost in OO. It's a massive gamble for them that has the potential to backfire catastrophically.  It is of course possible Hornby looked at N and decided that market was already too crowded for them to make inroads, with the majority of their range already being produced by Farish/Bachmann/Revolution. No longer being able to compete at the upper end of OO, and facing an already crowded market in N, TT was likely their last and only option. 

 

Bachamnn are not stupid, they know there is pent up demand for coaching stock and N Gauge in general. It will come, in time. The real risk for Bachmann is someone else recognises the demand is there for these products in N, and can respond faster than Barwell to fill it. 

 

Incidentally, my brother & nephew have just built their first model railway. They are not particularly restricted in terms of space, but they chose N Gauge and have found all the stock they wanted. The Nephew is aged 8, so replicating prototypical formations is not first and foremost in his mind and lack of mk1 or 2 TSOs has not proven to be a barrier for them making a start in N. 

 

Tom.  

[montyburns56]

On 08/11/2022 at 18:58, montyburns56 said:

I was just browsing the Bachmann site last night and I noticed that the Class 47/4/7/8 models are still listed as awaiting, but by January it will be five years since they announced them. I'm not after them myself, but they are pretty useful models if you modelling the late 90s/early 2000s and it seems that Bachmann have almost forgotten about them. The weird thing is that the website has even removed the descriptions of them and just simply lists their model numbers. 

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish/diesel-locomotives?page=4

 

Interestingly they have now added the descriptions to the web pages for the 47s. It seems that the walls have ears. 😀

[Steve Purves]

On 07/11/2022 at 13:13, Steven B said:

 

Add in Colin Albright leaving and I think you've hit the nail on the head!

At least Colin's been involved with Sonic and the NGS Hunslet.

 

Steven B.

 

I've heard this a few times and it's not exactly accurate.

 

Since Colin left there have been many new models released, 40, 31, C class, 8F, 319, Birdcage Coaches, Mk2f, Thompsons, and that's not mentioning the numerous wagons, plus the 90 and 158 that are imminent and stuff that is being worked on behind closed doors. The Farish range was a Bachmann product - produced by the team, not a Colin Albright product. 

 

Steve

[Steven B]

It feels like there were more new models being produced when Dennis and Colin were both at Bachmann.

We certainly got more regular re-runs of bread-and-butter models like the Mk1s when they were at Barwell.

 

How much is down to personalities and how much to the global economic changes I can't say!

 

Steven B.

[grahame]

Dennis and Colin were British based staff and part of Bachmann UK. I'm not sure how much influence they would have had on Kader's Chinese production planning. And no doubt their effective replacements would be similarly keen to see British outline products in N gauge produced.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Perhaps Graham Hubbard's departure had an effect? He comes across in interviews as being rather cautious — the opposite from, say, Simon Kohler who appears to be a bit of a gambler by comparison. There is also the lessening of competition from Dapol since Dave Jones left — during his time they were aggressively going out to capture a significant part of the N gauge market—indeed some of the items announced then are yet to see the Light (Pacific) of day…

 

[RichardT]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:23, Roy L S said:

So, in spite of Simon Kohler's inevitably positive sales pitch, it is just as easy to argue that TT120 has none of the advantages of N but retains many of the disadvantages of OO, especially in the smaller home.

Only just noticed this, but I would like to be associated with the remarks made by the previous speaker.  I’m astonished how many people seem to be swallowing or quoting Mr K’s TT sales pitch as fact, together with his opinions that “N is too fiddly” (for what?).  The bloke has a new unproven range to sell, in the teeth of an economic downturn unforeseen when Hornby started planning it.  Of course he’s going to rubbish the competition using every half-truth at his disposal.  
 

FWIW my opinion is that BachFar still have backlogs to undo, coupled with their parent company obviously having very little idea of how the UK N market differs from the 00 one - particularly that it’s NOT driven by collectors of niche one-offs.  I have odd locos that I’ve bought for display only - and I buy them in 4mm because that size displays well.  For N I want everyday locos and rolling stock - lots of it - for them to pull, because that’s the point of the scale.

 

RichardT

[richierich]

Hornbys TT gauge adventure is a curious one. Can see the logic, as space is a premium now in most UK homes. But if they’d gone 2mm, might have helped the scale grow. 
 

Also having a foot in 4mm D+E camp, Hornby hasn’t maximised opportunities in that market, and I’m a bit sceptical about their approach. I guess time will tell…

[TomE]

31s have arrived, just been billed for 31423.

 

Tom. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by TomE

[richierich]

43 minutes ago, TomE said:

31s have arrived, just been billed for 31423.

 

Tom. 

These are only available from certain regional dealers?

[TomE]

4 minutes ago, richierich said:

These are only available from certain regional dealers?

Correct, info on which area of the country they are available in is here

 

I sourced my executive liveried 31423 from Cheltenham Model Centre. 

Tom.  

 

[John M Upton]

Presumably that means the Mainline Freight blue one is in at appropriate retailers as well?

[Roy L S]

52 minutes ago, TomE said:

31s have arrived, just been billed for 31423.

 

Tom. 

 

I wonder if this means Kernow will have received oe will soon get their stock of  golden ochre ones (he ponders hopefully),,,,

 

Roy