Graham Farish Winter 2022 announcements

[Steven B]

17 hours ago, Roy L S said:

I have mentioned before that I noticed a distinct slow down in the amount of N being delivered after Graham Hubbard retired and David Haarhus took over, this might be coincidence but then again it might not. 

 

Add in Colin Albright leaving and I think you've hit the nail on the head!

At least Colin's been involved with Sonic and the NGS Hunslet.

 

Steven B.

[scottystitch]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

I've heard a little whisper that N gauge enthusiasts will be happy with what is planned for the mid year (Summer and Autumn) 2023 announcements next year. Consequently I wouldn't expect much for the Spring (Feb) announcement (CNY, etc.,).

 

 

 

Sadly, we’ve heard this so many times before that I’m not sure anyone believes in little whispers anymore. Mind you, it’s like a broken clock telling the right time twice a day. If we say it often enough one of these times it might actually happen…but only by coincidence. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by scottystitch

[AndyB]

3 hours ago, Roy L S said:

Hi Andy

 

I'm not aware that Bachmann have said that but could be I missed it somewhere, certainly this Winter's announcements have not been "bumper" by even the most optimistic person's measure!

 

Roy

Hi Roy

I don't think I picked that up from Bachnann. I seem to remember reading it on a previous Spring or Summer announcement where folk were saying those announcements looked a bit sparse...

 

In light of Grahame's comment perhaps we should rename this the Jam Tomorrow thread. Lol

[Ed-farms]

2 hours ago, johny retro said:

I'm still trying to find some in original InterCity.

They don't even pop up on a certain online auction site, except for the BSO and RF.

 

They do occasionally, I have 6 TSO's all bought on a certain auction site and there was 2 sold on their in the last month, best advice is do a saved search for "Farish 374-737" then you will see if any are added

[grahame]

2 hours ago, scottystitch said:

Sadly, we’ve heard this so many times before that I’m not sure anyone believes in little whispers anymore. Mind you, it’s like a broken clock telling the right time twice a day. If we say it often enough one of these times it might actually happen…but only by coincidence.

 

Rather cynical. I've not heard it before for a specific date (mid 2023) and it's probably more than just a whispered rumour - I have it in writing. And I do believe that there will be more emphasis on N gauge from Farish at that time.

 

But, of course, happiness is a relative thing, and if what arrives doesn't address an individuals narrow limited personal wants then they won't be happy. And that's the rub. Those moaning are those who want something that isn't currently available and possibly missed out when it was in the past, and will continue to moan if their requirement isn't addressed.

 

For those wanting passenger coaches it would be worth checking out Model Railways Direct. They seem to have a reasonable range and choice if somewhat eclectic and limited in quantity. But people will still say not the type I want, not the period, not the region, not the colour, it's weathered, and so on.

 

 

[davebem]

I agree that you cant please everyone.  But for many (myself included) one of the biggest benefits of N gauge is longer scale/realistic length trains possible meaning more stock needed.  I think there was some missed opportunities in some of the last runs where they favoured niche liverie rather than the most common liveries, examples include no bog standard blue GUVs/ blue and grey mk1 BG/mk2a TSO were missing, but these had a recent-ish production run.

[D9020 Nimbus]

The danger for Farish is that people who can't get what they're looking for might move elsewhere—possibly to TT:120. It certainly is a better option than N for those who aren't already committed to either—especially those starting out.

[John M Upton]

Indeed, never did understand the RTC Research Mk2 TSO instead of a potentially more popular livery, the RTC ones are heading to bargain bins now.

[maq1988]

13 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Indeed, never did understand the RTC Research Mk2 TSO instead of a potentially more popular livery, the RTC ones are heading to bargain bins now.

 

I wonder how big a production run they did on those - it's likely produced so it went with the matching 31. I did get the ModelZone Exclusive RTC Class 24 and matching RTC coaches a few years back.

 

I'm now looking at some of the old split chassis models to convert to basic DCC control. Viewing from a few feet away some of the lack of newer detail could be forgiven. Though these can now command a hefty price second-hand.

[John M Upton]

The older model split chassis Class 31 is still worth the effort but alas trying to pick up one of those second hand has become tricky with a lot of ebayers seemingly happy to try and charge the going rate for the full fat modern version, happens across a lot of older models where there is now a more modern tooling equivilent.

 

[woodenhead]

50 minutes ago, davebem said:

I agree that you cant please everyone.  But for many (myself included) one of the biggest benefits of N gauge is longer scale/realistic length trains possible meaning more stock needed.  I think there was some missed opportunities in some of the last runs where they favoured niche liverie rather than the most common liveries, examples include no bog standard blue GUVs/ blue and grey mk1 BG/mk2a TSO were missing, but these had a recent-ish production run.

Have a look on Ebay if it is GUV and CCT you want, there's a page of each currently, though on the GUV there are quite a few Satlink ones which I imagine fall into the RTC category of an oddity.

[Standards_in_OO]

2 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The danger for Farish is that people who can't get what they're looking for might move elsewhere—possibly to TT:120. It certainly is a better option than N for those who aren't already committed to either—especially those starting out.

Based on what Hornby have planned I would say it is a more favourable option especially if you model steam era. As there is only a limited amount of GF released per quarter by Bachmann it could be a very long wait until there’s a decent selection of steam locomotives and coaches available. There’s hardly any train sets available either which could put those off going in at entry level. 

[johny retro]

4 hours ago, Ed-farms said:

 

They do occasionally, I have 6 TSO's all bought on a certain auction site and there was 2 sold on their in the last month, best advice is do a saved search for "Farish 374-737" then you will see if any are added

No idea how I've missed those. I've been watching almost daily for months!

I did manage to get 5 blue/grey tso's but never seen any in InterCity.

I will do what you suggest though, cheers.

[johny retro]

3 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Indeed, never did understand the RTC Research Mk2 TSO instead of a potentially more popular livery, the RTC ones are heading to bargain bins now.

Along with those ScotRail twin packs. Yet the regional railways stuff is like rocking horse sh't!

[TomE]

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The danger for Farish is that people who can't get what they're looking for might move elsewhere—possibly to TT:120. It certainly is a better option than N for those who aren't already committed to either—especially those starting out.

 

The danger for Farish is that another manufacturer decides to enter the N Gauge market and starts producing the models they are not making use of their tooling for. 

 

TT is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

 

Tom. 

[Kris]

7 hours ago, scottystitch said:

Sadly, we’ve heard this so many times before that I’m not sure anyone believes in little whispers anymore. Mind you, it’s like a broken clock telling the right time twice a day. If we say it often enough one of these times it might actually happen…but only by coincidence. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

 

Some broken clocks don't even get the time right twice a day. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

19 hours ago, TomE said:

TT is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

 

It isn't for people who are just starting out, but who don't have room for OO. IMHO N gauge isn't really suitable for people starting out, even if the stock were available. For one thing, the majority of the locos have radius 2 as the specified minimum radius but the Setrack points as supplied by Farish are radius 1. Want to uncouple remotely? You won't find an uncoupling track in the Farish range (nor in the Bachmann OO range either—what do they have against the idea!?). Neither of these things is an issue in TT:120.

[maq1988]

24 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

You won't find an uncoupling track in the Farish range

 

I'd put forward "it depends what you want" from modelling. I model N because I want longer more prototypical trains. N isn't for shunting or constant loco swapping. The same could be said for O and space being used as an argument against it as 20+ wagon freights is far too large. 

 

A lot has been promised on TT:120 - but let's see how it goes. I wouldn't say TT is irrelevant but it does muddy the waters somewhat. At the moment Hornby 'only' have 88 items of rolling stock in the TT range whereas they've got something like 250+ coaches alone in OO. It's going to take a while for TT to settle in.

 

I think it depends on Bachmann's take as they've now invested in OO9. Can they afford to move into yet another scale and not potentially annoy their OO and N customer base through more perceived lack of focus?

 

24 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

It isn't for people who are just starting out, but who don't have room for OO.

 

Hornby's page for TT:120 says a 'good' size OO layout is 6x4, IMHO that's barely enough room to get OO track to do a 180. PECO TT doesn't even have set radius curves in the range right now. I'd like to see a starter fiddle with flexitrack to get around a bend easily. 

 

We've veered off topic, only Bachmann really know what the future holds for their product line. I welcome more entrants into the N space, should they see a market for it.

[montyburns56]

I was just browsing the Bachmann site last night and I noticed that the Class 47/4/7/8 models are still listed as awaiting, but by January it will be five years since they announced them. I'm not after them myself, but they are pretty useful models if you modelling the late 90s/early 2000s and it seems that Bachmann have almost forgotten about them. The weird thing is that the website has even removed the descriptions of them and just simply lists their model numbers. 

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish/diesel-locomotives?page=4

[TomE]

51 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

I was just browsing the Bachmann site last night and I noticed that the Class 47/4/7/8 models are still listed as awaiting, but by January it will be five years since they announced them. I'm not after them myself, but they are pretty useful models if you modelling the late 90s/early 2000s and it seems that Bachmann have almost forgotten about them. The weird thing is that the website has even removed the descriptions of them and just simply lists their model numbers. 

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish/diesel-locomotives?page=4

Not that forgotten:

 

Potentially livery samples on display at Warley and should be released next year ahead of the Class 158, was the information provided at TINGS this year. 

Tom. 

 

[woodenhead]

If they have stripped the description, then perhaps it indicates a chassi upgrade to Next18 and sound.

 

which was quietly dropped a few years back and sound fitted models removed from the catalogue 

[fezza]

Of course we have to remember that limiting supply helps raise margins as hard-core modellers will now pay anything for a new TSO.

 

Don't be surprised if a coach that had an RRP of £40 just a few years ago is £80 in the next batch... Farish know there are desperate people who will pay the price - almost any price it seems if one looks at auction sites 

 

But also don't be surprised if very few new people buy N gauge and go to TT instead, especially if Hornby  price TT aggressively in the first couple of years to attract customers from N where they have no UK interest.

 

TT has novelty value - don't underestimate the importance of that. 0 gauge benefitted from that novelty value when Dapol launched a much smaller range a few years ago and far more people can house TT than can house 0 gauge.

Edited November 11, 2022 by fezza

[Roy L S]

2 hours ago, fezza said:

Of course we have to remember that limiting supply helps raise margins as hard-core modellers will now pay anything for a new TSO.

 

Don't be surprised if a coach that had an RRP of £40 just a few years ago is £80 in the next batch... Farish know there are desperate people who will pay the price - almost any price it seems if one looks at auction sites 

 

But also don't be surprised if very few new people buy N gauge and go to TT instead, especially if Hornby  price TT aggressively in the first couple of years to attract customers from N where they have no UK interest.

 

TT has novelty value - don't underestimate the importance of that. 0 gauge benefitted from that novelty value when Dapol launched a much smaller range a few years ago and far more people can house TT than can house 0 gauge.

 

 

I think the jury is well and truly out as far as TT is concerned at this point. Yes, Hornby have grand plans, but as yet apart from track not a single product delivered, the quality is unknown and nowhere near the number of manufacturers support it as do N (In fact Heljan and Gaugemaster have pulled out).  Hornby's marketing/sales strategy is yet to be validated and many see cutting out model shops as both morally and strategically questionable.

 

Looking at the A3s and A4s (albeit we are told they are pre-production) I do not personally think they compare especially well to the quality of models we are seeing in N (for example compare those locos to the roughly comparable Farish A1 and A2 - I mean just look at the depth of the "Pizza Cutter" flanges on the Hornby models...). The Mk1s from the limited pics we have seen appear to have "Design Clever" written all over then.

 

So, in spite of Simon Kohler's inevitably positive sales pitch, it is just as easy to argue that TT120 has none of the advantages of N but retains many of the disadvantages of OO, especially in the smaller home.

 

Roy

[maq1988]

2 hours ago, fezza said:

Don't be surprised if a coach that had an RRP of £40 just a few years ago is £80 in the next batch... Farish know there are desperate people who will pay the price - almost any price it seems if one looks at auction sites 

 

I'd hope the opposite may happen, if TT does start taking hold then maybe Farish will re-evaluate prices to being 'competitive'. I do find it daft that an N coach can cost the same as one in OO when there's much less material to use... labour costs and lower overall production volume isn't taken into account though.

 

Hornby think there's a market for a smaller scale, an as an N modeller it's not a surprise I'd think the logicial choice would have been to move to a smaller, but existing marketplace. Oh can you imagine if Hornby brought their OO range to N gauge.

[fezza]

The jury is certainly out on TT but don't assume detail and fidelity is what sells - good running and fun sells too. Kato N is now getting a bigger following in the UK - some of it is slightly crude by Farish standards but it is a complete system, it runs well and things rarely break. Everything is plug and play - very important for the modern market. And it's fun.

 

If Hornby can build a mass market around TT by offering a complete system and range (doing what Kato have done in N) they will be successful. Yes I know Japan is a much bigger market but that market has been built on a record of great products at sensible prices from the major Japanese N gauge manufacturers.

 

Hornby can't afford TT to fail. They aren't investing that amount of money in TT without having done a lot of market research. 

 

Let's hope Farish benefit from the competition rather than retract even further into a specialist niche collector market.