EFE LSWR Cross-country coach sets

[Pteremy]

On 13/01/2023 at 17:53, TrevorP1 said:

I gave in to the sirens of temptation and earlier this week ordered a BR green set 'lightly weathered' from TMC. They are absolutely not needed  on a western region layout but they look really nice models and something to appreciate for what they are. It looks like Plymouth Railway Circle are going to be running a few railtours into Cornwall...

 

 

 

 

 

There is photographic evidence of sets on the Barnstaple Victoria - Taunton line in the early 1950s. These would probably have originated at Torrington, as an unadvertised trough working (see Trains Illustrated 1951, p11). For example there is a photo of one of the 'sliding door' sets, passing through Wiveliscombe bound for Taunton, the loco being 2251 2266. (The photo, on p121 Maggs, Branch lines of Somerset, is dated as c1958, but must be several years earlier than that.)

[Garethp8873]

23 hours ago, rasalmon said:

Being a carriage restorer at 12-inches to the foot scale, I'm probably over-aware of what's authentically correct... as a modeller at OO gauge, they are an extremely good representation of the prototypes, and when running on a layout most will never notice a problem.  They are a classic and widely used set for use on branch lines all over the South-west, a very good choice of prototype for a model manufacturer to have chosen. In LSWR and pre-war days they were used more widely, including on trains to Brighton.  So I am sure those earlier periods will be covered later with the addition of the Full Third (originally 2nd/3rd composite).
 
All I'll probably do to these 1945-livery coaches is add transfers to the passenger doors on the Brakes, and then spray a coat of satin varnish over the bodysides.

 

Thank you. I am more inclined now to put my card down and order a Southern set.

[stephennicholson]

I have skimmed through this topic trying to find out whether I can run these in 1944. One respondent says this particular set was repainted in 1945, so wont be accurate. Were any other sets painted earlier, which would allow me to get this set and renumber?

[Nick C]

50 minutes ago, stephennicholson said:

I have skimmed through this topic trying to find out whether I can run these in 1944. One respondent says this particular set was repainted in 1945, so wont be accurate. Were any other sets painted earlier, which would allow me to get this set and renumber?

Quite a few - Lancing records for that era are on https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-LSWR-CrossCountrySets130-324.html

[SDJR7F88]

On 19/01/2023 at 20:46, Blandford1969 said:

As they got on the S&D you can also include an S11 (1940s) 4F, 2P, underbuilt West Country. Whilst on the Corkscrew and Salisbury and Dorset you can add K10, L11 and 700

Regarding the S&DJR, would these be suitable during for BR period on the line? 

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Regarding the S&DJR, would these be suitable during for BR period on the line? 

I have just leafed through my copy of the excellent 2021 published S&D Railway ( Derek Philips,Irwell Press ) . There are a few photographs of these sets on the S&D prior to 1939 but none that is evident from this source post 1948. 
 

That doesn’t necessarily mean that they weren’t in use then .It has to be remembered that post 1945 there were chronic shortages of many commodities,among them being film for an enthusiast’s camera. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Ian Hargrave
Adding text

[Dunsignalling]

4 hours ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Regarding the S&DJR, would these be suitable during for BR period on the line? 

Probably not on a planned basis.

 

By BR days, the gangwayed LSWR 56' sets were more usually employed on S&D stoppers, but I wouldn't rule out one of these appearing occasionally in the event of a rostered set being out for repair etc.

 

The delivery of Bulleid stock in numbers relegated such low-capacity non-gangwayed 3-sets to the bottom of the heap in early BR days, and if a spare set were needed, chances are one of these would be available.    

 

John

[Pteremy]

A couple more GWR/WR examples.

 

In the Huxtable Series on the Taunton Barnstaple line there is a good photo of a set at Barnstaple Victoria (v2, p385). The set number is visible - Set 138. The caption dates this as 1930's but as there appears to be a loco in the loco shed with a smokebox door numberplate early post nationalisation is possibly more likely (prior to closure of the shed in 1951). The set appears to be being pulled tender first by a 43xx suggesting it is an ex Taunton service leaving en route to Barnstaple Junction.

 

In Model Railway Journal 277 (p65) there is a 1930s picture of a set with Large Prairie 6163 on a Reading to Basingstoke local service.

 

 

[Blandford1969]

Brian Macdermott in The Somerset and Dorset line records sets 421 and 348 being examples used in the 1950s

[Ian Hargrave]

With regard to the running of these sets in everyday usage,I am using Hunt Extra Close magnetic couplings to good visual and practical effect. I only wish we had more sets developed and presented as these currently are.  For those seeking evidence of post 1945 use please remember that railway photography was to a great extent dormant for a variety of reasons for several years.For the S&D,Ivo Peters was and remains the go to source.

 

[PeteN92]

Finally bagged myself a set of these as I notice rails have 20% off now which makes them 179.95 plus you can use the discount code Eastertreat for another 5% off this weekend with DPD p&p that's 174.98 all in so about 56.60 per coach. They look very nice but I'm guessing they aren't selling like hotcakes due to the fact you've got to buy the 3 pack and the high cost per coach Bachmann are asking for these days. 

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

Finally bagged myself a set of these as I notice rails have 20% off now which makes them 179.95 plus you can use the discount code Eastertreat for another 5% off this weekend with DPD p&p that's 174.98 all in so about 56.60 per coach. They look very nice but I'm guessing they aren't selling like hotcakes due to the fact you've got to buy the 3 pack and the high cost per coach Bachmann are asking for these days. 

That's a pretty normal level of discounting after items have been out for a few months, and at £56.50 per coach, it's well into typical pricing territory for single coaches.

 

Southern coaches were normally formed in sets and none featuring in these packs ran as "loose stock", which overwhelmingly consisted of all-thirds and brake composites. There wouldn't therefore be any virtue in selling this type separately.

 

The problem with doing so is that the correct formation has two brakes for each composite and if the Rule One mob didn't buy them in that proportion it would make it difficult for others to make up complete sets, potentially leaving retailers with a bunch of unsaleable brakes. 

 

Having recently bought a Hornby rebuilt lavatory third (a type that generally wasn't used "inside" sets) to tack on the end of various formations, I recommend this course to anyone fancying a random panelled Southern coach. They have been out for some time, but can still be found without too much difficulty.

 

John 

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yes I still want a set but as they seem to be lingering I'm waiting to see what sales they may or may not end up in, TMC currently have the Bachmann Breakdown Crane for about £125, as someone who paid £212 when they were first released that stings a bit! 😭

 

But never mind, and yes with regards to comments about sets and rule 1ers I've noticed loads of Hornby Bulleid brakes are heavily discounted at the moment but the composites are not, often not in stock at all

[RFS]

39 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

But never mind, and yes with regards to comments about sets and rule 1ers I've noticed loads of Hornby Bulleid brakes are heavily discounted at the moment but the composites are not, often not in stock at all

 

That's because of a mix-up at Hornby resulting in too many brakes being manufactured - hence they're being sold off at a big discount to dispose of the stock. 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

That's because of a mix-up at Hornby resulting in too many brakes being manufactured - hence they're being sold off at a big discount to dispose of the stock. 

And no available production capacity for making a batch of composites to rectify the situation?

 

Too busy with TT:120 and big LNER locos, presumably.  

 

Mind you, at those prices, it might be worth getting one or two for spares or conversions....

 

John

[chris45lsw]

On 11/02/2023 at 19:05, Blandford1969 said:

Brian Macdermott in The Somerset and Dorset line records sets 421 and 348 being examples used in the 1950s

421 and 348 were L&SWR corridor sets.  They were the last such corridor 3-sets in service.

Chris KT

 

[GreenGiraffe22]

Finally got myself a set! I don't know if they were still being used on the Brighton - Portsmouth post war but they are in my model world! 

 

 

 

[Tramshed]

On 21/01/2023 at 22:22, rasalmon said:

Sadly, yes; they were apparently already made and on the boat when the November launch details resulted in the issue being raised.  I have some transfers.  Maybe I should re-do those on the Composite too with them higher up the panels?

 

If the mail order v high street retailer argument is still live can I post on behalf of the retailer? I pointed out the missing '3's to my local shop who advised me that they could fix the problem via a contact they use for weathering. In response to demand, Fox transfers have made up sheets with the correct number of 3s for a pair of brake thirds. You can order via their website and fit yourself. Enough to go round the whole production run apparently. My local shop charged a very modest fee to have them applied and matt varnished. Result, a happy Tramshed and a happy retailer who can now shift more units.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Tramshed
Typo and to add information

[MonsalDale]

What routes did these make it onto when they were going across the country?

 

Any inter regional services on the GCR or Midland for example?

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, MonsalDale said:

What routes did these make it onto when they were going across the country?

 

Any inter regional services on the GCR or Midland for example?

 

Cross Country generally referred to across the LSWR / SR Western Section and not inter regionals. They could also be seen on the occasional south coast services. 

[Graham_Muz]

The earlier four coach sets with the additional 8 compartment Composite / Third to  LSWR Drawing 1302, SR Diagram 17 have now been announced and will be at retailers this month see here for details https://southern-railway.com/2023/08/02/Bachmann-announce-lswr-sr-diagram-1410-1406-and-1408-covered-vans-and-swr-sr-56ft-non-corridor-cross-country-four-coach-sets-as-part-of-their-efe-rail-range/

[Oldddudders]

Brilliant news, Graham - but I’ve just got off the Eurostar in Paris. Will have to get those Kernow chappies to send one to Sherry!

[Tim Dubya]

34 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

SR Diagram 17

 

Any plans to make these available separately in BR(S) Green and Crimson?

[Graham_Muz]

2 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

Any plans to make these available separately in BR(S) Green and Crimson?

 

To coin a phrase...never say never

[Tim Dubya]

6 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

...never say never

 

I had a feeling you might say that 😉