Rapido OO Gauge GWR B Set coaches

[That Model Railway Guy]

Hoping this might be of interest to some of you. Recently Rapido invited me to take a look at everything they're working on and I got to take a really close look at the undecorated samples of B Set coaches. Rapido were also happy to let me film them in close up for the video below as well as put them to the test behind the 44XX too.

 

The video should start from the relevant section but if not skip ahead to 06:48 to see the B Set coaches:

 

 

Just thought I’d post it here in case anyone has been wanting a closer look at these models before getting an order in.

 

 

Edited February 25 by That Model Railway Guy
updated video link

[Miss Prism]

I'm scratching my head trying to recall a pic of a 44xx with an elliptical roof B-set.

 

[gwrrob]

42 minutes ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

Hoping this might be of interest to some of you. Recently Rapido invited me to take a look at everything they're working on and I got to take a really close look at the undecorated samples of B Set coaches. Rapido were also happy to let me film them in close up for the video below as well as put them to the test behind the 44XX too.

 

The video should start from the relevant section but if not skip ahead to 06:48 to see the B Set coaches:

 

 

Just thought I’d post it here in case anyone has been wanting a closer look at these models before getting an order in.

 

 

 

I hope you don't mind my putting this video on my layout thread as it has plenty of potential customers viewing it.😉

[That Model Railway Guy]

2 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

I hope you don't mind my putting this video on my layout thread as it has plenty of potential customers viewing it.😉

 

Not at all, please be my guest. Getting it in front of potential customers was entirely the point after all 😃

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I'm scratching my head trying to recall a pic of a 44xx with an elliptical roof B-set.

 

Possibly Much Wenlock branch if that’s any help, madam; Tondu didn’t have B sets so not Porthcawl and ISTR Princetown used gangwayed stock. 

[Miss Prism]

Much Wenlock ran with a ragbag of stock, but I think most of it was corridor.

 

[Hal Nail]

15 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I'm scratching my head trying to recall a pic of a 44xx with an elliptical roof B-set.

 

Realistically, and I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with this, many will be applying rule 1 in buying a 44xx in the first place, let alone what it pulls! They weren't numerous or widespread enough to sell purely on prototypical grounds.

 

Similar charm to, say, the Beattie Well tank or Adams Radial and for GWR/WR modellers, just something different.

 

Edited February 26 by Hal Nail

[Miss Prism]

29 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Realistically, and I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with this, many will be applying rule 1 in buying a 44xx in the first place

 

Agree - I was merely reacting to the video's "look absolutely perfect running with the 44xx" and "If your modelling a GWR branchline, a 44xx with a B-set would be a really great foundation to start from."
 

[franciswilliamwebb]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Possibly Much Wenlock branch if that’s any help, madam; Tondu didn’t have B sets so not Porthcawl and ISTR Princetown used gangwayed stock. 

Yes, GWR Journal 33 has a shot of just such a combination at Wellington, complete with a third vehicle tacked on.

 

Edit: Page 29, loco 4409, date c1949, SLS image

Edited February 26 by franciswilliamwebb
(Added page number now I've got the magazine in front of me)

[The Johnster]

Yes, they were intended to be Churchward's standard branch loco, but proved a bit slow and heavy on water consumption because of the small driving wheels, and the 45xx class was quite quickly produced for the role, the larger driving wheels  needing a reversal of the main frames.  There were 11 44xx, 75 45xx, and 100 4575 with larger tanks, some of which were provided with auto-gear in 1953.  They were not that common with B sets, though the 45xx and 4575 variants were.  

[MJI]

On 25/02/2024 at 00:22, melmerby said:

I've translated the Harris info into a database (*.dbf format), which can be searched, I have all the lots in but haven't finished tidying it up.

I still find errors when I open it!☹️

Unfortunately RMWeb doesn't support dbf files or even zip, so I can't upload it.

 

 

Which dialect?

 

My favourite is the Extended Systems (Sybase) version of CDX, then COMIX, then NTX

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

Which dialect?

 

My favourite is the Extended Systems (Sybase) version of CDX, then COMIX, then NTX

No Idea

I just use Lotus Smartsuite's Approach on Win 10, have been using Smartsuite since Win 3.1

Pre Windows I had used dBase and S-Base (or was it R-Base?) on PC and Beta Base on BBC Micro.

Edited February 26 by melmerby

[Harlequin]

The prismatic effect of the edges of all those small windows in the B-Sets is very visible.

 

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

The prismatic effect of the edges of all those small windows in the B-Sets is very visible.

 

 

I cannot understand why flush glazing has to have a recess behind each window - this is what is so visible.

 

I am assuming that it may be in order to keep the moulding of a generally equal thickness, and I do recall seeing 'sink' hollows in the old Kitmaster glazing strips, which did not have the recesses behind each window.

 

That said, I would have expected, sixty years later, that the technology would have developed to allow variable thickness mouldings to be produced.

 

CJI.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

No Idea

I just use Lotus Smartsuite's Approach on Win 10, have been using Smartsuite since Win 3.1

Pre Windows I had used dBase and S-Base (or was it R-Base?) on PC and Beta Base on BBC Micro.

 

I use a rather powerful version capable of running 50 user systems quite successfully.

[RapidoCorbs]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The prismatic effect of the edges of all those small windows in the B-Sets is very visible.

 

Bear in mind that on the doors, the window frames are part of the transparent plastic of the windows and have not been painted/printed.

[Harlequin]

6 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

Bear in mind that on the doors, the window frames are part of the transparent plastic of the windows and have not been painted/printed.

Fair point, thanks.

 

The porthole windows on the new Dapol Moguls use the same technique and it doesn't really work very well, IMHO, because you can see the back of the transparent plastic behind the painted areas. It looks very odd from some angles.

 

[RapidoCorbs]

Ok.

 

[Hal Nail]

13 hours ago, Harlequin said:

it doesn't really work very well, IMHO, because you can see the back of the transparent plastic behind the painted areas. It looks very odd from some angles.

The Lionheart 7mm ones use this technique on droplights and they look fine. The rest of the windows less so, although they aren't so much prismatic as the edges showing up.

 

Droplights being recessed, whereas presumably the porthole rims need to stick out, could well make a difference.

 

 

 

Edited February 27 by Hal Nail

[57xx]

I presume this is the same pair of carriages that we saw early last year?

[RapidoCorbs]

Indeed they are.

[The Johnster]

If you think that's prismatic, you should have seen the Airfix version!

 

Difficult one this.  The answer, IMHO, is probably to make the bodyshell out of clear plastic and print the colour over it, leaving the windows clear, and to insert separate door mouldings with the droplight windows at the correct angle, which is a little different to that of the coach side tumblehome if the window is closed and very different, much mut vertical, if it is opened, partially or fully.  But that would probably increase production costs unacceptably, as the more parts there are to assemble the costlier the model is to make ready for packing.  And printing over a clear bodyshell moulding using paint/ink thick enough to block light where it is not wanted and to register accurately in position may well be more of a challenge than I think it is.  Mopok flush-glazed coach kits were made like this with stickyback printed sides back in the day, and were not a long-term success, being prone to warping IIRC, perhaps a function of the bonding agent.

 

The prismatic effect is certainly there if you look for it and will be more apparent in some lighting than others, and at different angles.  I'd say that the Dapol solution is an acceptable compromise for RTR purposes; everybody wants perfection but nobody wants to pay for it, and all manufactured models are a compromise to a greater or lesser extent; if they weren't, they'd be far too delicate to handle by human beings and collapse under the weight of the paint...

 

There are modellers of my generation who still think that the Rosebud Kitmaster mk1s have never been bettered and the ability of a clumsy sausage-fingered 11-year-old Johnster to build them into successful runners speaks volumes for the production design team at Rosebud.  They were never bettered in their day, certainly (but have for probably the last 30 years been knocked into the proverbial cocked hat by current RTR, even Hornby Railroad), but the windows, with moulded clear 4-panel ventilators, were pretty poor if you wanted to paint in the ventilator frames, as was correct, and the prismatic effect was all too often replaced by a sort of glued look, not smeared on the windows but nonetheless quite prominent in a side light.  The windows were an exact interference fit in the reveals, which required very precise positioning to achieve the right effect.  It was achievable, with care, but I can't see that translating to volume production in a busy assembly plant working to deadlines, good though the Chinese assembly workers undoubtedly are!  If I were building one now I would experiment with dark grey, brown, or black paint to hold the windows in the frames to avoid the internal glue refraction.   And ultimately the method proved to be not reliable; most surviving KM coaches have one or two windows that have dropped out, presumably due to shrinkage over time or perhaps differential rates of expansion and contraction when the temperature changes.  Prismaticless interference fit windows sound marvellous, but experience suggsts that they don't work.

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Difficult one this.  The answer, IMHO, is probably to make the bodyshell out of clear plastic and print the colour over it, leaving the windows clear

I think this would cause the problem @Harlequin flagged in that you'd see "behind" every window. I think it works on droplights though and does mean they can be recessed correctly.

 

Similarly I've never thought brass coaches look quite right because you get lovely clear flush windows but can see no depth behind them. I spent hours adding inner "wood" framing to my auto trailer.

 

I've said before, finding a way to improve moulded glazing economically will be a massive step forward as it affects so many models. Some are better than others though (check out Lionheart mk1s in 7mm).

[Miss Prism]

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Similarly I've never thought brass coaches look quite right because you get lovely clear flush windows but can see no depth behind them.

 

It depends on the diagram. The original C54s (to take an example of a diagram produced in large numbers) were wooden bodied, so the windows had a c 1.5" depth. Around 1930 or so, the C54s became steel sided, so the surround reduced to 3/8" or so. (Droplight apertures were not affected, though.)

 

Completely different look.

 

 

Edited February 27 by Miss Prism
caveat about droplight apertures

[Chris Chewter]

Managed to be offered the chance to run the EP B-set on the Carterton layout at Ally Pally last weekend.