Dapol OO 'Air Ministry' 14T tank wagons

[The Stationmaster]

We regularly tripped Class B tanks on local services although by the 1970s there was no other traffic on the train.  When I travelled on a Mixed Train in Scotland in 1969 it was conveying a Class A tank car.   As far as Class B cars were concerned they could be found in trips to local goods yards in areas when stone coating (with bitumen) was carried on.

[MarkSG]

17 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Until the late 1950s, unloading facilities were fairly basic; with discharge direct into road tankers,  'jerry cans' or drums; storage tanks, if present, would be fairly small. The wagons would often be unloaded in a quiet corner of a yard, not at a dedicated terminal, though East Anglia had quite a number of these post WW2, due to the number of air-fields.

 

Ah! Now that's an excellent idea for a cameo scene in the corner of the layout. In my fictional history I can imagine that the goods yard served as the railhead for an (off-set) airfield, now decommissioned but with the tank terminal left in place in the yard.

[markw]

31 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Class B - many products; not usually crude oil; it is the flash-point temperature that defines the class.

 

Both classes would be equally likely to be present in a pick-up goods.

 

Class A - no bottom discharge pipe; top siphon attachment.

 

Class B - bottom discharge pipe.

 

CJI.

The handwheel on the top of a class B tank that operates the bottom valve is usually easier to spot in photos than the actual discharge pipe.

[Wickham Green too]

51 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Perennial answer. If the manufacturer (a) thinks of it soon enough to do so, and (b) considers the potential extra sales justify any effort/expense incurred in doing it. 

Some ( new ) manufacturers have, indeed, built in provision - and have even included additional components ...... but that doesn't answer whether Dapol - who seem to be aiming for a similar quality market with these tankers ( the specific subject of this thread ) have chosen to do likewise : maybe they should have a chance to respond.

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

Ah! Now that's an excellent idea for a cameo scene in the corner of the layout. In my fictional history I can imagine that the goods yard served as the railhead for an (off-set) airfield, now decommissioned but with the tank terminal left in place in the yard.

There were a few like that around the country. Flax Bourton, between Bristol and Weston was one, another was at Portfield near Chichester. They'd been built to serve a number of nearby airfields, rather than being dedicated to just one.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Some ( new ) manufacturers have, indeed, built in provision - and have even included additional components ...... but that doesn't answer whether Dapol - who seem to be aiming for a similar quality market with these tankers ( the specific subject of this thread ) have chosen to do likewise : maybe they should have a chance to respond.

Yes, and Oxford Rail include metal brake levers/racks of a finesse well above their pay grade, albeit not necessarily the correct pattern for the wagon in question.

 

I'm not wholly convinced it's a real issue, in any case. The (admittedly few) P4 modellers I've known all remove plastic brake gear and axleguards on principle because of their overscale thickness, and replace both in etched metal, irrespective of clearances. EM devotees may do things differently, though? 

 

John

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

EM devotees may do things differently, though? 

 

To paraphrase Benny Hill, I'd be 'appy if it came with 26mm pinpoint axles, something many other current manufacturers seem unable to achieve!

 

Mike.

[Craigw]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, and Oxford Rail include metal brake levers/racks of a finesse well above their pay grade, albeit not necessarily the correct pattern for the wagon in question.

 

I'm not wholly convinced it's a real issue, in any case. The (admittedly few) P4 modellers I've known all remove plastic brake gear and axleguards on principle because of their overscale thickness, and replace both in etched metal, irrespective of clearances. EM devotees may do things differently, though? 

 

John

 

I am happy to use plastic brakegear if it is reasonably fine and also accurate. Unfortunately that is not always the case. Oxford is variable to say the least. These are too late for me sadly, there is still a gap for an earlier tanker that is larger than the Oxford one.

 

Having said that, I still might end up getting a couple if they turn out alright.

 

Craig W  

Edited August 25, 2022 by Craigw

[57xx]

These look like they could be nice, but the very edge of my time frame and, presuming "air ministry" tanks were not in private ownership when built, not suitable traffic for me either.

[Mark Saunders]

11 hours ago, 57xx said:

These look like they could be nice, but the very edge of my time frame and, presuming "air ministry" tanks were not in private ownership when built, not suitable traffic for me either.

These were registered as private owners in the LMS private owner register as any wagon not belonging to a railway company was a PO. The Ministry of War Transport 16 ton minerals were treat the same!

 

All of the above were fitted with registration plates prior to delivery.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Mark Saunders
Fat finger syndrome!

[Wickham Green too]

A single batch of Air Ministry tanks was registered by the Great Western for some reason - the other thirty four (?) batches by the L.M.S. as you say.

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

There were a few like that around the country. Flax Bourton, between Bristol and Weston was one, another was at Portfield near Chichester. They'd been built to serve a number of nearby airfields, rather than being dedicated to just one.

Flax Bourton was a major underground fuel storage site accessed via its own siding and completely separate from the small goods yard.

 

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/flax-bourton-underground-fuel-depot-somerset-june-2015.97487/

[Fat Controller]

28 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Flax Bourton was a major underground fuel storage site accessed via its own siding and completely separate from the small goods yard.

 

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/flax-bourton-underground-fuel-depot-somerset-june-2015.97487/

Portfield was similar; I should have made it clear.

If you haven't got space for storage tanks, there was a small Shell-BP terminal at Haverfordwest, which had the discharge pipes next to the siding. However, the storage tanks were on the other side of the station approach road.

[The Stationmaster]

14 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Portfield was similar; I should have made it clear.

If you haven't got space for storage tanks, there was a small Shell-BP terminal at Haverfordwest, which had the discharge pipes next to the siding. However, the storage tanks were on the other side of the station approach road.

Newham had a fuel discharge location in the goods yard.

[57xx]

16 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

These were registered as private owners in the LMS private owner register as any wagon not belonging to a railway company was a PO. The Ministry of War Transport 16 ton minerals were treat the same!

 

All of the above were fitted with registration plates prior to delivery.

 

Thanks for the reply informative Mark. When referring to them as PO wagons, I meant owned by the likes of Esso/Anglo American Oil, Shell etc as opposed to govt owned? I presume this only happened after the war? 

[Mark Saunders]

Like a lot of railway equipment after the war it was sold off as war surplus.

 

The 16 ton mineral wagons became BR along with some Warflats and Warwells and the Air Ministry tanks sold to various private owners/users.

 

After these were replaced on the mainline, many of the chassis turned up under newly built internal user wagons at steelworks and collieries; with some tanks becoming static storage.

[57xx]

Ok, thanks, so as I thought, not in actual private ownership until sold off after the war. That's pretty much what I also gleaned when I remembered I had Touretts' "tankers" book hidden away and had a rumage through that.

[markw]

2 hours ago, 57xx said:

Ok, thanks, so as I thought, not in actual private ownership until sold off after the war. That's pretty much what I also gleaned when I remembered I had Touretts' "tankers" book hidden away and had a rumage through that.

I can't see that it makes any difference if Air Ministry or oil company owned as they were all under the control of the Petroleum Board in a single pool.

There were some built to the Air Ministry design in 1940 for The Oakbank Oil Co. Presumably for crude oil.

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, markw said:

I can't see that it makes any difference if Air Ministry or oil company owned as they were all under the control of the Petroleum Board in a single pool.

There were some built to the Air Ministry design in 1940 for The Oakbank Oil Co. Presumably for crude oil.

I think the nub of the earlier enquiry was when the tanks began to appear in oil company liveries rather than who owned them and when.

 

The Petroleum Board was wound up on 30 June 1948, presumably having disposed of all its assets between the war's end and that date.

 

The rate at which Pool-liveried wagons emerged in company colours is unclear, but the pace will, no doubt, have been affected by the endemic shortages of materials during the immediate post-war years. Most probably just had their new owners' identities added in smallish black characters to begin with.  

 

John

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[57xx]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I think the nub of the earlier enquiry was when the tanks began to appear in oil company liveries rather than who owned them and when.

 

Exactly John. No point running one in an Esso or Shell/BP livery that didn't appear until post war on a layout set in the 1930's.

[GreenGiraffe22]

It's a pity there aren't any in wartime liveries as far as I can tell? Perhaps in the next batch. 

[Suzy Sulzer]

Update on liveries

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/100/Newsletter-Current

[MarkSG]

7 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

It's a pity there aren't any in wartime liveries as far as I can tell? Perhaps in the next batch. 

Yes, it does seem a rather odd omission to do an Air Ministry design without actually doing one in service livery. But, as you say, that's a possible second run.

[markw]

17 hours ago, MarkSG said:

Yes, it does seem a rather odd omission to do an Air Ministry design without actually doing one in service livery. But, as you say, that's a possible second run.

If you compare the the 4mm product code with the 7mm product code it is not difficult to guess what liveries a second run will be in.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/315657/dapol_7f_058_009_14_ton_type_a_tank_wagon_air_ministry_/stockdetail

 

[Pteremy]

I would like to preorder a few. But I confess that I would rather see a picture of the proposed livery rather than a short description, so intend to wait until some pics appear.