Dapol OO 'Air Ministry' 14T tank wagons

[gwrrob]

18 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

I would like to preorder a few. But I confess that I would rather see a picture of the proposed livery rather than a short description, so intend to wait until some pics appear. 

 

This happens quite a lot with Dapol. You either have to enlist the help of Miss Marple or wait till they arrive and then hope they haven't sold out.

[markw]

14 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

This happens quite a lot with Dapol. You either have to enlist the help of Miss Marple or wait till they arrive and then hope they haven't sold out.

The O gauge versions are shown here;

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults?search/q/Air ministry/scales/O/brands/Dapol/stockstatus/all

 

The product codes are the same for the same livery except the first digit is 7 instead of 4.

[MarkSG]

3 hours ago, Pteremy said:

I would like to preorder a few. But I confess that I would rather see a picture of the proposed livery rather than a short description, so intend to wait until some pics appear. 

 

Yes, I'm going to wait until we've at least got some mockups if not decorated samples. Not least because I want to see which livery I think looks nicest :)

 

[Dunsignalling]

I already have one of the Shell-BP Class B tanks in O gauge, and immediately pre-ordered both of its OO equivalents and one of the Class A wagons on the strength of it.

 

What we get should be pretty much a known quantity given what Dapol has achieved in the larger scale, with the same livery options.

 

The only thing I'm a little dubious about is the working suspension, which strikes me as an unnecessary extra complication/expense in OO and "something else to go wrong". That said, if it did cause problems, It should be easy enough to glue it up solid.🥸

 

John 

[MarkSG]

6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

What we get should be pretty much a known quantity given what Dapol has achieved in the larger scale, with the same livery options.

 

Yes, that's a fair point. Having had a look at the O gauge versions, I do quite fancy the silver Shell Mex Motor Spirit livery.

 

One advantage of these, for the modeller, is that in the 1950s they'd have been relatively recently repainted into their PO livery, so it only needs fairly light weathering to portray them accurately. 

[markw]

18 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

Yes, that's a fair point. Having had a look at the O gauge versions, I do quite fancy the silver Shell Mex Motor Spirit livery.

 

You do realise this a very mixed up wagon, a wartime built wagon in postwar silver with a pre 1932 livery style.

 

Although it is a genuine livery but only if you model the K&ESR from 1972.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, markw said:

You do realise this a very mixed up wagon, a wartime built wagon in postwar silver with a pre 1932 livery style.

 

Although it is a genuine livery but only if you model the K&ESR from 1972.

 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

That particular version of the model was causing me more than a little head-scratching!

 

John

[MarkSG]

8 hours ago, markw said:

You do realise this a very mixed up wagon, a wartime built wagon in postwar silver with a pre 1932 livery style.

 

Although it is a genuine livery but only if you model the K&ESR from 1972.

 

 

 

So what would be an appropriate livery for 1955?

 

[markw]

17 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

So what would be an appropriate livery for 1955?

 

The Regent any of the Esso ones, either of the class B Shell/BP or Berry Wiggins.

[coeurdelyon]

Hello Mark,

 

Yes, the picture of the SHELL motor spirit number 7522 is in preservation, however I am attaching a picture of 5056, taken during the 1950's which is the model we shall be reproducing.

 

Thanks for your interest and comment

 

Regards, Richard

[markw]

1 hour ago, coeurdelyon said:

Hello Mark,

 

Yes, the picture of the SHELL motor spirit number 7522 is in preservation, however I am attaching a picture of 5056, taken during the 1950's which is the model we shall be reproducing.

 

Thanks for your interest and comment

 

Regards Richard

Hello Richard,

 

I don't think that is a 1950s photo, note the white tyres and buffers and the lack of fast traffic star.

I think it is a 1970s photo taken at carnforth.

Shell overhauled several of these tanks in the early 1970s and donated them to various preserved railways, I guess they did not want to give free advertising to BP so chose liveries from before the joint distribution agreement rather than ones appropriate for the wagon.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

I agree with Mark. It is a 1927 RCN design tank with post WW2 walkways and ladders. Very unlikely to have these fitted without a repaint from pre WW2 livery.

 

If you look at the "H" in the large Shell lettering the bottom of left hand vertical has an over painted electrical warning flash which would have been added in the early 60s.

[coeurdelyon]

Hi Mark,

 

Yes, you could well be right regarding a later period, although I believe the livery is correct.

 

Thanks and Regards,

Richard

 

[markw]

1 hour ago, coeurdelyon said:

Hi Mark,

 

Yes, you could well be right regarding a later period, although I believe the livery is correct.

 

Thanks and Regards,

Richard

 

Hi Richard

As Clive points out 5056 is not an Air Ministry tank but is in fact the 1938 SMBP type that they were based on. The difference is the filler neck is shorter and has 4 screw fastenings instead of 3 (is this an option that will be available?).

 

I am not sure what you mean by 'I believe the livery is correct' this livery is from before 1932 when Shell and BP combined Thier distribution and would be on a stone coloured tank, so this is only correct as a preserved livery, or on an older wagon, and the photo of 5056 is black and white so we don't know if it was stone or silver.

 

If Dapol want to do prewar liveries they could add an option for the 1927 type filler (a bar across the lid and single screw fastening) as all 3 types are closely related.

 

[Wickham Green too]

10 minutes ago, markw said:

... 5056 is not an Air Ministry tank but is in fact the 1938 SMBP type that they were based on. ....

Looks like it's yellow now - but confirmed as 1939 built : http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6494

[coeurdelyon]

Hi Mark,

 

Thank you very much for your information on these tank wagons which is all very useful. It may be possible to add a different filler cap providing there is sufficient room in the tool.

 

Regards,

Richard

[57xx]

On 05/09/2022 at 16:07, coeurdelyon said:

Thank you very much for your information on these tank wagons which is all very useful. It may be possible to add a different filler cap providing there is sufficient room in the tool.

 

There are a few other detail differences to the top of the tank. If you've not already got it, I'd suggest getting a copy of the Tourret tank wagon book as an investment.

[markw]

30 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

There are a few other detail differences to the top of the tank. If you've not already got it, I'd suggest getting a copy of the Tourret tank wagon book as an investment.

Some of the differences are due to the commodity carried, most of the 7'2" motor spirit tanks are similar to the air ministry version, other liquids in the smaller diameter tanks often don't have the vent.

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

There are a few other detail differences to the top of the tank. If you've not already got it, I'd suggest getting a copy of the Tourret tank wagon book as an investment.

 

Apologies if its already been mentioned, Modellers Backtrack volume 3 nos 1&2 has an article on Air Ministry Tanks.

 

Mike.

[coeurdelyon]

Hello,

I do have Petroleum Tank Wagons of Britain by Tourret which contains so much information on so many different wagons, in fact I found this book together with the Modellers Backtrack series as Mike mentions were instrumental in producing my 7mm scale Lionheart tank wagons, which these new 4mm scale ones are based on.

Regards, Richard

[Pteremy]

Having re-read Tourret to check the liveries I am interested in it is worth noting that:

 

the words 'Petroleum Products' were added to the Black Class B Shell-BP tankers from 1959, which makes both of the examples provided in 'O' gauge pre 1959 (Tourret p249) (although no doubt there was a transitional delay in application);

 

the letter 'A' was added to tanks from 1964, to distinguish the old fleet from new wagons (Tourret p251). This makes both of the Silver Class A Shell-BP examples provided in 'O' gauge post 1964.

 

the National Benzole livery provided in 'O' gauge, but not yet in 'OO', first appeared in 1959 (Tourret p195)

[markw]

4 hours ago, Pteremy said:

Having re-read Tourret to check the liveries I am interested in it is worth noting that:

 

the words 'Petroleum Products' were added to the Black Class B Shell-BP tankers from 1959, which makes both of the examples provided in 'O' gauge pre 1959 (Tourret p249) (although no doubt there was a transitional delay in application);

 

the letter 'A' was added to tanks from 1964, to distinguish the old fleet from new wagons (Tourret p251). This makes both of the Silver Class A Shell-BP examples provided in 'O' gauge post 1964.

 

the National Benzole livery provided in 'O' gauge, but not yet in 'OO', first appeared in 1959 (Tourret p195)

It is also worth noting that the Shell logo with the red background square was introduced in 1962, and the tank colour probably changed from silver to grey at the same time, the Dapol O gauge versions are correctly grey despite being described as silver.

Between 1959 and 62 tanks had 2 Shell logos on one side and 2 BP on the other.

[Pteremy]

Thanks. I thought that they looked grey rather than silver in the pictures. 

 

It is perhaps a little odd that the chosen livery is for mid 1960s, when the fleet of old tankers was being run down. Selfishly I would prefer the 1950's liveries - e.g the words 'Shell' and 'BP' on opposite sides, or the double shield version. Similarly the earlier 'National Benzole' livery. I don't know if it just a coincidence but these earlier liveries have been used by Bachmann on their tankers, albeit that the livery and prototype tanker design do not necessarily match.

[The Stationmaster]

I would definitely prefer late 1950s/very early '60s liveries but appreciate there are people who are interested in other periods and we can't have everything.  But whichever liveries appear I hope they will be accurate and not reflect inaccurate preservation liveries such as the one in the photo posted by markw.

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks whoever pointed out the "modernity" of the Class A Shell wagon. It's a bit too late for me so I've cut my pre-order, while keeping those for the Class B ones. No doubt other versions more appropriate for my needs will appear in time. 

 

John