Hornby 2023 Speculation?

[Pmorgancym]

57 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I think these retailers are talking out of their bottom....

 

Hornby just hasn't got the warehousing capacity to sell everything online only. They would need a warehouse the size of an average Amazon hub and employ about 1000 people and skilled pickers don't work for minimum wage.

 

For reference Hattons have about 100 staff and employ more at busy periods.

 

Just not happening.

 

 

Jason

How about 'drop shipping' putting the whole supply chain in the hands of their factories?  Hornby just becomes like Wish or Ali express a website front for products from various factories

[Rob Wallace]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Will there be one catalog, or one each for TT / OO ?

 

If its TT/OO combined, retailers could be in a quandry, selling a catalog, part of which they cannot supply and actively redirects business from themselves to Hornbys website.

That’s a really good point. Personally I think Hornby have really shot themselves in the foot by only selling through their own website. But i happy to be proved wrong.

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think these retailers are talking out of their bottom....

 

Hornby just hasn't got the warehousing capacity to sell everything online only. They would need a warehouse the size of an average Amazon hub and employ about 1000 people and skilled pickers don't work for minimum wage.

 

For reference Hattons have about 100 staff and employ more at busy periods.

 

With the best of intentions, Hornby are more like Hattons than Amazon and their warehousing requirements would be much closer to the latter.  If their requirements were anything like a single Amazon hub, Hornby would be turning over circa 10-100 times what they currently are. 

[eldomtom2]

As previously mentioned, it is the 160th anniversary of the Met, so I wouldn't be surprised if we did see something Underground-related.

[Flying Pig]

4 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

How about 'drop shipping' putting the whole supply chain in the hands of their factories?  Hornby just becomes like Wish or Ali express a website front for products from various factories

 

I think you need to watch some of Dr Ashen's random internet purchase videos to get an idea of the kind of quality which would result.

 

 

[Ravenser]

On 01/01/2023 at 11:04, Dunsignalling said:

The thing I would like to see (from anybody) would be some decent LMS vacuum-fitted ventilated vans. The Bachmann one is a mis-proportioned mess and the Dapol/old Airfix model, whilst very decent "above the waist" considering its elderly origins, is of a BR derivative. 

 

Unfortunately the prototypes varied so much that our OO r-t-r producers could each pick one diagram without any duplication being inevitable!

 

Even kit-building is a bit tricky. The Ratio kit represents one of the few that can be made up with or without AVB. Unfitted prototypes are quite well catered-for by Cambrian Models in kit form but none of those body styles were perpetuated in fitted form so one can't just bung Parkside PA16 underframes beneath them.  

 

Hornby do superb wagons when they put their minds to it (my particular favourites of recent memory being the SR Cattle wagons and LSWR brake vans) and an unrivalled selection of NPCCS vans, so we know it's feasible! 

 

John

 

On 01/01/2023 at 12:08, The Stationmaster said:

The way things are going nowadays I suspect it's more likely to appear from someone other than Hornby.  And at the rate a couple of companies are going we could perhaps hope that it might not be f roo far off.

 

I mentioned well up thread that I can't see Hornby spending money on new tooling for 'traditional' wagons in 00.   The area has become much more competitive in the past year or two and, maybe even more worrying for Hornby (if they are awake to what is happening?), the pace of new releases from Rapido in particular seems to be being sustained.  Thus, with their longer lead times, spending money in this area would, I think, represent a potential risk for Hornby especially when they have plenty of other things, now including of course TT120, demanding investment cash when they have already built up substantial borrowings so far this year.

 

It might well be that one or two projects which have been under development could possibly still make it to market dependng on where they sit in the process and the amount of money already spent?  But i still wonder if we'll see anything.

 

I think this is looking in the wrong direction for troubvle..

 

There's a big unquestioned  assumption sticking out of the Stationmaster's post.

 

That assumption is that there is only room for one model of the same subject in OO. Therefore is there no point Hornby investing in new tooling for any wagons , because there will always be someone else offering a model of that wagon. So Hornby won't sell enough to get their money back.

 

That is a very questionable assumption. It's fairly easy to point to a long list of subjects where two rival models have been offered RTR in OO by the manufacturers over a period of a number of years .

 

But it's not necessary to argue the general principle , because LMS vans are perhaps the most spectacular example. 2 different OO models of an LMS van were generated by Airfix and Mainline , 40 odd years ago. Both have been produced on an on-going basis so far as I'm aware and are still around, even though one is significantly flawed

 

Quote

Unfortunately the prototypes varied so much that our OO r-t-r producers could each pick one diagram without any duplication being inevitable!

 

 

Surely you mean "fortunately" ? If Hornby announce an LMS van to one diagram, and Rapido (or anyone else) subsquently announce a rival model of the same diagram, then the late comer is being wilfully provocative... Two maufacturers offering different but accurate LMS vans would be useful and make trains more interesting .

There's every reason why both versions should sell.  (Rapido might like to consider the LMS steel vans...)

 

Rapido certainly operate on the batch system. They announce a run, they take pre-orders, once they have enough they commit to the production run . Once that's sold, it's sold . They may or may not announce a later run. I presume they use "soft" tooling with a short life, whereas the hard tooling for the Airfix/Mainline vans has lasted over 40 years

 

In the short term there might be a head to head, but in the medium term a Hornby van is likely to be available in many years when Rapido are not making any . Rapido models sell out, and they move onto the next project:

Rapido gunpowder vans sold out

Rapido SECR opens sold out

 

(I'm aware some of these are still available at the retailers. The point is that Rapido have done their run and they've sold through. "That's yer lot!". By Christmas you won't be able to buy them anywhere, and they may not be made again for a good many years, if ever)

 

The real problem lies elsewhere. The window of opportunity where Chinese tooling and production costs were low enough to make tooling up new wagons work may have almost closed...

 

18 months ago I decided the wagon fleet for the Boxfile finally needed to have an ex SR wagon. It had become a slightly awkward gap in the correct fleet balance. And the inevitable choice would be a van, I went into the nearest model shop - and the B achmann ex SR van was over £20. They also had a Ratio kit , which sells for £11. Ratio ex SR plywood van  I'd been made redundant not long before due to the pandemic , so I bought the kit and built it.

 

Hattons are charging £28 for Rapido's SECR equivalent , while you can get it. Digitrains are charging £36 for a Bachmann van : Weathered Bachmann VEV . I seem to recall someone did an outside framed SECR van as a 3D print and it cost over £40

 

At these prices it will cost £500-600 to assemble a 25 wagon main line freight train using recent RTR. The picture isn't much different for modern freight trains in N. These prices are already starting to get prohibitive . They will only get worse , year after year, as costs in China rise in real terms...

 

Someone up thread claimed B achmann had spent over a million quid tooling up their new 47s. Tooling up a wagon will be a fraction of that (£150K? £200K?) . But still, that investment has to be recovered, over and above the cost of making and distributing the things . That Bachmann SR van for twenty-odd quid wasn't tooled recently - a lot of the tooling cost  must have already been recovered

 

A little maths suggests you will need to sell some tens of thousands of a model wagon to recover your tooling costs from hard tooling . Only then will the project start to generate actual profit for you

 

Meanwhile the people who run 25 wagon trains , either at home or on an exhibition layout are often not that fastidious . They are frequently happy to run trains of out of the box Mainline/Airfix tooled wagons, not always fully waethered. Those things can be found in second hand trays for £8 a pop. Those of us who are more fastidious know that  you can pick up a chassis kit for £4-£6 and get an accurate detailed model for no more than £15 total spend. This is a very simple easy entry level modelling project .

 

Meanwhile Dapol are still knocking the things out from fully depreciated tooling...

 

Under these conditions how do you sell the tens of thousands of a newly tooled RTR wagon that you need to make money from the project?

 

And the garotte will tighten, year by year, for the foreseeable future. And the supply of RTR wagons already made, on the second hand table, will grow year after year....

 

[DutyDruid]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Hornby just hasn't got the warehousing capacity to sell everything online only. They would need a warehouse the size of an average Amazon hub and employ about 1000 people and skilled pickers don't work for minimum wage.

 

And that's exactly the point Jason, they already have a Hornby Store on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Hornby/page/42AC0C70-1D10-41C5-99F4-64CEA8B4928A?ref_=ast_bln

 

At the moment it looks like the "fulfillment" is still with Hornby but it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility for a "Fulfilled by Amazon" flag to replace that one; from there the sky's the limit on how far this could go.

 

Unfortunately I spent too much of my working life pushing back against the "Outsourcing is best" mindset of our Government's Bean Counters and from bitter experience I know exactly how their argument goes.  I wouldn't mind betting that Hornby's accountants are already actively pursuing the possibility of outsourcing their entire sales operation to the people you quoted - Amazon - and are probably having a fairly detailed conversation with them about how it could be made to work.  I hear on the grapevine that they have already "sacked or otherwise redeployed" their reps and in the eyes of a bean counter only having to deal with one retailer rather than the hundreds (thousands?) of model shops in this country means the back office staff could be reduced as well.  It would also save them from having to deal with the squabbling of "Why's he a Tier 1 Retailer while I'm only in Tier 3?".  From the economic point of view, the margin that Amazon would be looking to reap would be less than the margin a small business would need to survive so the RRP could be suitably reduced.  The containers arriving from "wherever" would simply be diverted to that Amazon hub you mentioned and Hornby wouldn't even have to employ the people needed to strip them because Amazon would already have teams on hand to strip and stow everything that arrived.  Dealing with "peak demand" would no longer be "their" (i.e. Hornby's) problem either, it would be Amazon's and from there we can set off on the moral discussion about the gig economy which is rife in that sector of "retail".

No, It's a completely different model of retail from the one we are used to as a hobby, but I can quite see the thinking that must be going on in the background.  Whether it will be for the best for the hobby or an unmitigated disaster for Hornby only time will tell.

 

Elliott

[surfsup]

2 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

As previously mentioned, it is the 160th anniversary of the Met, so I wouldn't be surprised if we did see something Underground-related.

Unfortunately it's now quite a limited selection if Hornby want's to do anything Metropolitan Railway / LUL related - The S Stock now produced by Bachmann, TC by Bachmann, Sarah Siddons by Heljan, and at a push, the 38 Stock by EFE Rail / Bachmann. So, that leaves either the A62 stock or anything earlier, eg Steam + coaching stock. 

[Torn-on-the-platform]

3 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

As previously mentioned, it is the 160th anniversary of the Met, so I wouldn't be surprised if we did see something Underground-related.

 

A Chesham set perhaps? Would be wonderful! I think the Met E class might have been more up Hornby's street in the past but I feel with the recent move to pushing out large named locomotives I won't hold my breath.

 

Continuing a Bluebell theme, I'd like to see the S15 back in Olive livery. I missed out on the previous issues. Obviously 847 would be my preference, but I would be in the market for any Olive S15. I wonder if they may be put off by the length of time the consecutive numbered black versions seemed to hang around.

 

I've said elsewhere I'd like to see Stepney in A1x IEG livery and Fenchurch in A1 Umber livery (or IEG as it has just emerged) I would prefer that the competitor released these but having spoken to RoS staff, there doesn't seem to be any active plans for a further run of the competing terrier. Hopefully I am wrong and they were keeping their cards close to their chests! Whoever produces them first (if at all) would get my money! Whatever happens, the future Terrier liveries will be interesting.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Torn-on-the-platform

[frobisher]

27 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

That assumption is that there is only room for one model of the same subject in OO. Therefore is there no point Hornby investing in new tooling for any wagons , because there will always be someone else offering a model of that wagon. So Hornby won't sell enough to get their money back.

 

That is a very questionable assumption. It's fairly easy to point to a long list of subjects where two rival models have been offered RTR in OO by the manufacturers over a period of a number of years .

 

Indeed - there are certain subjects should be duplicated because they are bread and butter items.  For instance (and not limited to this brief list) MK1 through 3 carriages of various types, brake vans from the big four and BR, certain "standard" freight wagons, BR classes 08, 25, 31, 37, 47, and certain iconic 0-6-0 steam locos (Jinty, 57XX etc).

[number6]

35 minutes ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

A Chesham set perhaps

🤔hmmm! 

[Ravenser]

35 minutes ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

I've said elsewhere I'd like to see Stepney in A1x IEG livery and Fenchurch in A1 Umber livery (or IEG as it has just emerged) I would prefer that the competitor released these but having spoken to RoS staff, there doesn't seem to be any active plans for a further run of the competing terrier. Hopefully I am wrong and they were keeping their cards close to their chests! Whoever produces them first (if at all) would get my money! Whatever happens, the future Terrier liveries will be interesting.

 

It's not entirely fair to spotlight Tom-on-the=platform  , but he's just neatly spelt out some of the reasons why "If X make a Class 987 Hornby won't be able to compete" doesn't work like that in the marketplace

 

I don't know if Rails of Sheffield intended to do regular runs of their Terrier, or if it was intended to be a one-shot project blazing across the heavens like a meteor.

 

They may always have intended to recover the cost of the tooling from the initial production runs. They might have taken the stance that provided they recovered the production cost + tooling/development costs , plus took their normal retail margin on top , then the project was viable for them for  the extra  retail sales volume at full markup, plus the marketing and prestige it brought...

 

If Hornby had decided it was unethical to put their own Terrier project into production against Rails , there is no certainty that RoS would have done further runs of their Terrier. They may not be able to get production slots at the factory (or slots at a price that they can work with) in the current environement. And Hornby could still have pumped out a flood of Terriers from  their old tooling - as they did with the Limby 66 and Hattons' 66 - and I think everyone would have been just as angry with them.

 

It's not clear anyone would actually have been better off if Hornby had "done the right thing" and ceded the market for OO Terriers to RoS. Hornby would certainly have been worse off; the availability of OO Terriers over the subsequent 10 years might well have been less, and some of those made might well have been the old Hornby Terrier.

 

If Rails thought they could directly challenge an existing Hornby product with a rival in confidence that Hornby would not attempt to defend their market, that was rather naive. There are those who may wish that Hornby would simply "go quietly" and allow competitors to dismantle their business without Hornby putting up a commercial struggle , but that is not real world stuff

 

We are going to have to adjust to the reality of the continuing existance of rival models of the same subject in the marketplace on an ongoing basis, and think through how it works, not assume that one of the models will be bundled out of the market and the perpetrator be given some kind of commercial black eye for their misdeeds

 

I'm afraid a RTR Chesham set is not real word stuff. A 57xx in LT red and a brake van in LT livery sounds more likely to me

[Les1952]

I got a reminder on Farcebook this morning from Hornby about the new items reveal.

 

It DID NOT say OO new items so I would expect both scales to be covered....

 

Les

[Clive Mortimore]

I have just got back from the Peking Authentic Cantonese Restaurant, you know the one next to the Bull's Head. Well the pretty waitress has a cousin who works in the factory that makes Hornby's trains. And he has told her he as been packing yet another version of the "Flying Scotsman."

 

So there we have it, one more "Flying Scotsman" to go with the other umpteen versions you already have.  It is a green colour by the way.

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

 

And that's exactly the point Jason, they already have a Hornby Store on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Hornby/page/42AC0C70-1D10-41C5-99F4-64CEA8B4928A?ref_=ast_bln

 

At the moment it looks like the "fulfillment" is still with Hornby but it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility for a "Fulfilled by Amazon" flag to replace that one; from there the sky's the limit on how far this could go.

 

Unfortunately I spent too much of my working life pushing back against the "Outsourcing is best" mindset of our Government's Bean Counters and from bitter experience I know exactly how their argument goes.  I wouldn't mind betting that Hornby's accountants are already actively pursuing the possibility of outsourcing their entire sales operation to the people you quoted - Amazon - and are probably having a fairly detailed conversation with them about how it could be made to work.  I hear on the grapevine that they have already "sacked or otherwise redeployed" their reps and in the eyes of a bean counter only having to deal with one retailer rather than the hundreds (thousands?) of model shops in this country means the back office staff could be reduced as well.  It would also save them from having to deal with the squabbling of "Why's he a Tier 1 Retailer while I'm only in Tier 3?".  From the economic point of view, the margin that Amazon would be looking to reap would be less than the margin a small business would need to survive so the RRP could be suitably reduced.  The containers arriving from "wherever" would simply be diverted to that Amazon hub you mentioned and Hornby wouldn't even have to employ the people needed to strip them because Amazon would already have teams on hand to strip and stow everything that arrived.  Dealing with "peak demand" would no longer be "their" (i.e. Hornby's) problem either, it would be Amazon's and from there we can set off on the moral discussion about the gig economy which is rife in that sector of "retail".

No, It's a completely different model of retail from the one we are used to as a hobby, but I can quite see the thinking that must be going on in the background.  Whether it will be for the best for the hobby or an unmitigated disaster for Hornby only time will tell.

 

Elliott

 

Outsourcing order fulfillment to Amazon might be a sensible idea. A lot of people hate Amazon but they are extremely good at what they do and are pretty much the benchmark for on-line shopping. 

[griffgriff]

7 hours ago, Les1952 said:

I got a reminder on Farcebook this morning from Hornby about the new items reveal.

 

It DID NOT say OO new items so I would expect both scales to be covered....

 

Les

…or neither?

 

… or indeed both…..
 

Anyone for a tree? 
 

Griff

[Pmorgancym]

9 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

 

And that's exactly the point Jason, they already have a Hornby Store on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Hornby/page/42AC0C70-1D10-41C5-99F4-64CEA8B4928A?ref_=ast_bln

 

At the moment it looks like the "fulfillment" is still with Hornby but it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility for a "Fulfilled by Amazon" flag to replace that one; from there the sky's the limit on how far this could go.

 

Unfortunately I spent too much of my working life pushing back against the "Outsourcing is best" mindset of our Government's Bean Counters and from bitter experience I know exactly how their argument goes.  I wouldn't mind betting that Hornby's accountants are already actively pursuing the possibility of outsourcing their entire sales operation to the people you quoted - Amazon - and are probably having a fairly detailed conversation with them about how it could be made to work.  I hear on the grapevine that they have already "sacked or otherwise redeployed" their reps and in the eyes of a bean counter only having to deal with one retailer rather than the hundreds (thousands?) of model shops in this country means the back office staff could be reduced as well.  It would also save them from having to deal with the squabbling of "Why's he a Tier 1 Retailer while I'm only in Tier 3?".  From the economic point of view, the margin that Amazon would be looking to reap would be less than the margin a small business would need to survive so the RRP could be suitably reduced.  The containers arriving from "wherever" would simply be diverted to that Amazon hub you mentioned and Hornby wouldn't even have to employ the people needed to strip them because Amazon would already have teams on hand to strip and stow everything that arrived.  Dealing with "peak demand" would no longer be "their" (i.e. Hornby's) problem either, it would be Amazon's and from there we can set off on the moral discussion about the gig economy which is rife in that sector of "retail".

No, It's a completely different model of retail from the one we are used to as a hobby, but I can quite see the thinking that must be going on in the background.  Whether it will be for the best for the hobby or an unmitigated disaster for Hornby only time will tell.

 

Elliott

Would they reduce the mrsp or would they just reap more profit???

[rob D2]

Talking of Hornby logistics in the same breath as Amazon , you are talking a mouse against a mountain in size .

 

Our local DSN ( amazon distribution ) easily does 50000 packages a day 

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

I think this is looking in the wrong direction for troubvle..

 

There's a big unquestioned  assumption sticking out of the Stationmaster's post.

 

That assumption is that there is only room for one model of the same subject in OO. Therefore is there no point Hornby investing in new tooling for any wagons , because there will always be someone else offering a model of that wagon. So Hornby won't sell enough to get their money back.

 

That is a very questionable assumption. It's fairly easy to point to a long list of subjects where two rival models have been offered RTR in OO by the manufacturers over a period of a number of years .

 

But it's not necessary to argue the general principle , because LMS vans are perhaps the most spectacular example. 2 different OO models of an LMS van were generated by Airfix and Mainline , 40 odd years ago. Both have been produced on an on-going basis so far as I'm aware and are still around, even though one is significantly flawed

 

 

 

Surely you mean "fortunately" ? If Hornby announce an LMS van to one diagram, and Rapido (or anyone else) subsquently announce a rival model of the same diagram, then the late comer is being wilfully provocative... Two maufacturers offering different but accurate LMS vans would be useful and make trains more interesting .

There's every reason why both versions should sell.  (Rapido might like to consider the LMS steel vans...)

 

Rapido certainly operate on the batch system. They announce a run, they take pre-orders, once they have enough they commit to the production run . Once that's sold, it's sold . They may or may not announce a later run. I presume they use "soft" tooling with a short life, whereas the hard tooling for the Airfix/Mainline vans has lasted over 40 years

 

In the short term there might be a head to head, but in the medium term a Hornby van is likely to be available in many years when Rapido are not making any . Rapido models sell out, and they move onto the next project:

Rapido gunpowder vans sold out

Rapido SECR opens sold out

 

(I'm aware some of these are still available at the retailers. The point is that Rapido have done their run and they've sold through. "That's yer lot!". By Christmas you won't be able to buy them anywhere, and they may not be made again for a good many years, if ever)

 

The real problem lies elsewhere. The window of opportunity where Chinese tooling and production costs were low enough to make tooling up new wagons work may have almost closed...

 

18 months ago I decided the wagon fleet for the Boxfile finally needed to have an ex SR wagon. It had become a slightly awkward gap in the correct fleet balance. And the inevitable choice would be a van, I went into the nearest model shop - and the B achmann ex SR van was over £20. They also had a Ratio kit , which sells for £11. Ratio ex SR plywood van  I'd been made redundant not long before due to the pandemic , so I bought the kit and built it.

 

Hattons are charging £28 for Rapido's SECR equivalent , while you can get it. Digitrains are charging £36 for a Bachmann van : Weathered Bachmann VEV . I seem to recall someone did an outside framed SECR van as a 3D print and it cost over £40

 

At these prices it will cost £500-600 to assemble a 25 wagon main line freight train using recent RTR. The picture isn't much different for modern freight trains in N. These prices are already starting to get prohibitive . They will only get worse , year after year, as costs in China rise in real terms...

 

Someone up thread claimed B achmann had spent over a million quid tooling up their new 47s. Tooling up a wagon will be a fraction of that (£150K? £200K?) . But still, that investment has to be recovered, over and above the cost of making and distributing the things . That Bachmann SR van for twenty-odd quid wasn't tooled recently - a lot of the tooling cost  must have already been recovered

 

A little maths suggests you will need to sell some tens of thousands of a model wagon to recover your tooling costs from hard tooling . Only then will the project start to generate actual profit for you

 

Meanwhile the people who run 25 wagon trains , either at home or on an exhibition layout are often not that fastidious . They are frequently happy to run trains of out of the box Mainline/Airfix tooled wagons, not always fully waethered. Those things can be found in second hand trays for £8 a pop. Those of us who are more fastidious know that  you can pick up a chassis kit for £4-£6 and get an accurate detailed model for no more than £15 total spend. This is a very simple easy entry level modelling project .

 

Meanwhile Dapol are still knocking the things out from fully depreciated tooling...

 

Under these conditions how do you sell the tens of thousands of a newly tooled RTR wagon that you need to make money from the project?

 

And the garotte will tighten, year by year, for the foreseeable future. And the supply of RTR wagons already made, on the second hand table, will grow year after year....

 

 

I've made the same suggestion on threads for other brands and whoever acts gets my cash. If that's not Hornby, so be it.

 

Easy calculation. If I want ten Rapido wagons, I just need to buy one fewer Hornby locos! I'm entirely comfortable with Rapido's business model, accept that "delay is dangerous", and order accordingly. 

 

If Hornby make something I've already got enough of for donkey's years hence, they will be making them for others to buy! However, I do expect Rapido to re-run models in the fullness of time, but not to rush out a lemming batch before the first has sold out as Hornby seem prone to doing.

 

Hornby may or may not be "vital to the hobby" but unless they make stuff I want, they'll have to rely on customers who buy what they do make. No problem for them, though, no doubt there are plenty with different wants who will. 

 

I'm currently thinning out my older models, bought/built when I ran them on a biggish club layout, to make more room for a home layout. I'm nowadays buying (by previous standards) relatively little new stock and Rapido has been making wagons I fancy at a quality I like and prices I'm willing to pay. My plan is three out for every new one in so money isn't really an issue. Coincidentally, Rapido has recently announced a couple that will replace old kit-builds that have seen (much) better days, allowing me to make some that I haven't done before rather than repeating what I already have. 

 

John

[Axlebox]

On 31/12/2022 at 16:20, Pmorgancym said:

I think that's the annoying thing about the steam punk range they could have gone with something more asthetically pleasing say an electric blue Dean goods/ open back pannier with brass dome and splashers, copper smokebox, some sort of riveted brass 'power source in the tender/bunker with a blue led.

...or even Lion with additional copper and brass fittings/lights/generators along with a range of rolling stock with similar additions...the whole point of steam punk was imaging the modern world, but created by Gothicly minded Victorians. Surely, if you were starting a range of steam punk models you would discuss with the steam punk community...weekend in Whitby anyone?

[davidw]

Interestingly some retailers (eg.Antics) are promoting next Tuesdays announcements as 2023-2025. I don't know how official that is but its likely fairly realistic with respect to back log.

With respect to what Hornby will announce. 

I wouldn't be surprised with a retooled 8f.

But also looking at what CAD they've got. Post nationalisation livery for the Coronation Scot coaches must be on the cards. 

Similarly the LNER Coronation vehicles.though we've not seen these yet. Hornby have explioted chassis for their LNER and LMS pacifics. They can't be far from an a2/1 or A1/1 or GW  Great Bear 

I can also see them considering another named train. Perhaps SR or GWR origin. I'm not as familiar with these but it would follow the current thinking.

Not much has been commented on price- sadly I'm sure there will be a rise. 

Deep pockets anyone?

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by davidw

[Axlebox]

On 31/12/2022 at 20:26, D5158 said:

If I recall correctly, Class J21’s were used quite extensively on the coke trains over Stainmore.

 

Best wishes for 2023.

They shared the freight workings with J25s for many years...and ran the Darlington-Penrith and Kirkby-Tebay passenger trains...Whilst on a Stainmore theme, how about a GER E4 with a Darlington cab option...or a BR 3MT (77000- 77019)

Edited January 3, 2023 by Axlebox

[spamcan61]

10 hours ago, Ravenser said:

It's not clear anyone would actually have been better off if Hornby had "done the right thing" and ceded the market for OO Terriers to RoS. Hornby would certainly have been worse off; the availability of OO Terriers over the subsequent 10 years might well have been less, and some of those made might well have been the old Hornby Terrier.

 

Maybe Hornby would've been worse off, maybe not, we don't know if they've made any profit on their Terrier, given the 'split' market.

[TomScrut]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

don't know if Rails of Sheffield intended to do regular runs of their Terrier, or if it was intended to be a one-shot project blazing across the heavens like a meteor.

 

The thing is too that it is Dapol making these, so who's to say they have capacity to do any? They seem fairly busy with their own stuff at the moment. Next lot of 59s look like they are Q3 this year so lead time is fairly high for stuff that's already tooled (which is the case with everyone).

[TomScrut]

19 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Maybe Hornby would've been worse off, maybe not, we don't know if they've made any profit on their Terrier, given the 'split' market.

 

Well the rate they are chucking them out they must think they can sell. So long term I expect it has been a good thing for them.