The best currently available dcc controller

[AndrueC]

For what it's worth my current controller is an NCE PowerCab and I've got the impression that this is one of the most popular. It's a modular system so can be expanded if a layout grows and supports macros (command sequences). For example on my last layout (and likely this one unless I decide to change sooner rather than later) I used macros for routing. So M1 might change the turnouts to route siding one to the main line, then change the signals to indicate the routing then select loco 4.

 

Macros work well but editing them is a pain because you can't. You have to re-enter them from scratch and hell hath no fury like me discovering that I got step six of seven wrong 😠

 

It can only directly control one loco at a time (but of course locos continue to run even if you switch to talk to another one) and personally I find it very comfortable to hold. It has five dedicated function buttons but I believe can address more than that if required.

Edited December 29, 2022 by AndrueC

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Hamburger said:

The best is clearly Massoth. But I wouldn't buy it because of the price.

You might if you ran LGB!😃

[WIMorrison]

27 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

For what it's worth my current controller is an NCE PowerCab

You may run into issues if you want to integrate and interface to computer systems. 
 

NCE don’t release their interface documentation to the developers of software and they are therefore forced to reverse engineer the interface to make it work, this can result in capability issues when NCE release or simply just start using undocumented updates and changes to their firmware as the reverse engineering needs to be done again.

 

Personally I would avoid a system that doesn’t release the interface specifications.

 

As for being the most popular, I don’t think that would stand any test 😉

[Hamburger]

40 minutes ago, melmerby said:

You might if you ran LGB!😃

Yes, exactly. That's when I got to know this system, and it convinced me on all counts, except that new features are only introduced when they've been on the market for 1 or 2 years (maybe that's exactly the reason why everything is working). The system has the most expensive wireless controllers, but they are also the best and always work. No wifi, normal radio, no interference from smartphones. But I think that's not what the questioner wants.

[AndrueC]

29 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

You may run into issues if you want to integrate and interface to computer systems.

Yup, I'm expecting to have to remove it.

[woodenhead]

I use NCE PowerCab, it's perfectly adequate for my needs and the price made it a no brainer, it was this or a Bachmann Dynamis and at the time of purchase it was only the PowerCab I could get hold off.

 

Prior to that I had been using a Sprog 3 with JMRI and attempting to use an Ipad or an old Android phone for mobile control.  I found I was having problems getting the devices to connect with the JMRI interface, so I purchased a Powercab.  I felt the Z21 was overkill for what I needed and the price too high to justify, though it does look quite user friendly.

 

I have programmed point motors (cobalts really simple as they have a programming mode) and locos using the Powercab, but having the Sprog and JMRI does mean I have the ability to really look at the CV settings if I need to.

[tigerburnie]

I used this company to buy one of these and find it is very good for my fairly modest layout

Digitrax DCS52 Zephyr Express: All-in-one Command Station/Booster/Throttle - Digitrax - Shop by Brand (digitrains.co.uk)

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

Digitrax DCS52 Zephyr Express:

Decent basic system, IMHO better value than a Hornby Elite

[WIMorrison]

Just a pity that Digitrax systems don’t support Railcom, and can actually get upset by it :(

[melmerby]

35 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Just a pity that Digitrax systems don’t support Railcom, and can actually get upset by it :(

And that's the rub with most N American systems. They were late to large numbers of functions, they're late to Railcom (if ever).

They exist in their own little cocoon comforted by the fact that they think DCC is an American invention. (probably by Digitrax😁)

 

Whilst the rest of the world knows it was mostly Lenz's doing.

[Oldddudders]

14 minutes ago, melmerby said:

And that's the rub with most N American systems. They were late to large numbers of functions, they're late to Railcom (if ever).

They exist in their own little cocoon comforted by the fact that they think DCC is an American invention. (probably by Digitrax😁)

 

Whilst the rest of the world knows it was mostly Lenz's doing.

The NMRA were more than transparent about the massive free input from Lenz when they came up with the DCC standards. 

 

And the fact is that many US layouts are basement empires for which automation of train running is not needed. Operations are conducted by multiple people each driving a train while walking around the layout as appropriate, moderated by a dispatcher, and obeying signals where provided. 

 

I find it odd that a thread about the simple fact of choosing the right DCC system includes more than one post knocking other modelling cultures and systems.

[rogerzilla]

I use a Bachmann Dynamis.  It works fine but I'm sure there are much better interfaces and displays, so I wouldn't particularly recommend it.  I got a good deal on it, that was all.

[NoggintheNog]

I always used to say Lenz, you get a massive warranty and faultless performance, but these days, the majority of the systems have that same reliable performance too. 

 

Even with the new system, Lenz are a little behind in terms of ergonomics, but it all works and the system has a lot of flexibility. Control wise you can add in feedback for computer control or go the other way with the LW150 basically turning a toggle switch or push button into a DCC command,  so you can use simple panels like you would in the DC days, it still stands up as a great overall system.

 

If I were starting again, not sure I'd pick Lenz this time. It also depends on how you want to operate a layout, the ESU Ecis is a great system, but like the Hornby elite is a sit at the desk type, not ideal for a larger layout on its own, you need additional cotnrollers to walk around, and they aren't cheap.

If you want railcom, then any of the US systems is out, they show no signs of interest in adding it in at all. 

 

The Z21 is probably the most user friendly system out there once it is set up, and you can do more or less anything with it.

 

And then there is the Zimo system, which is DCC like the rest, but they take a very different approach to controlling the rest of the layout. If you want the ultimate in computer control and integrated tech, that is it, but at £1500 for a set plus £500 or so for every 16 point control module, it gets very expensive, very quickly. 

 

As others have said, if you can get somewhere you can try them, for most of us, most systems can do everything we want, its finding the one that feels right really. 

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

..... your loco decoders also need to support Railcom, which many do not.  ....

 

Up until recently, any loco fitted with a non-RailCom decoder, could be fitted with an additional, tiny RailCom transmitter, that sat in parallel with the regular decoder and mimicked all the CV's of the host non-RailCom chip, allowing it to send RailCom replies.

These were sold by both Lenz and ESU, for at least a decade, but sadly have been discontinued, presumably due to low demand.

 

 

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

........Lenz & Zimo decoders are Railcom compatible; US-market decoders, LAIS and other cheapo brands tend not to be.

 

ESU and some other brands also have RailCom equipped decoders.

The only US decoder manufacture to have adopted RailCom, is TCS, who have now introduced the facility to more than half their decoder range.

 

 

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

And that's the rub with most N American systems. They were late to large numbers of functions, they're late to Railcom (if ever).....

 

American Decoder manufacturer, TCS, have recently released 2 new advanced DCC systems, both of which incorporate RailCom, as well as the new NMRA LCC layout control protocol.

 

 

 

.

 

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

American Decoder manufacturer, TCS, have recently released 2 new advanced DCC systems, both of which incorporate RailCom, as well as the new NMRA LCC layout control protocol.

But they are a minority player as regards DCC systems in the US and are, I suggest, hoping to break into the non US market, where their decoders are fairly well known.

(For all things TCS in the UK contact Bromsgrove Models of this parish)

 

Digitrax seem to rule the roost in N America with I would guess a large majority of users, judging by posts in forums where equipment is mentioned.

NCE & MRC seem to have much less market share (again based on observation of forum postings.)

[two tone green]

TCS still don’t understand about the difference between European and USA DCC with their handsets. 
 

I have one of their so called universal WiFi handsets UWT 100 and it has fixed function name labelling and only one momentary function key on F2. 
 

Nice handset spoilt by out of date thinking that affects the end user. 

[Hobb0]

Little has been said about Bachmann controllers - any thoughts

 

[WIMorrison]

4 minutes ago, Hobb0 said:

Little has been said about Bachmann controllers - any thoughts

 

 

There is a reason for that 😉

 

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Hobb0 said:

Little has been said about Bachmann controllers - any thoughts

 

I think the principle I would adopt is that a manufacturer of DCC kit only is likely to deliver a better product than a train manufacturer who sees that DCC's time has come, and elects to make a system to suit, but doesn't die in a ditch if it isn't wonderful. There seems to be a justified consensus about which names to go for, and although I use another system, I'm not going to name it here. 

[AndrueC]

20 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

As for being the most popular, I don’t think that would stand any test 😉

Actually I suggested it was one of the most popular ;)

[Matt C]

Another +1 for the full fat (black) Z21 system. I was able to try out various systems at the Scottish model rail show before buying, didn't find the likes of the Nce very intuitive but as soon as I tried the Z21 with an Android touch screen I was hooked ( The layout operator got me to download the app to my phone, emailed me across a guest Roster and I was up and running my own touchscreen throttle in minutes with simple pictoral loco selection, slide throttle and relevant function buttons in place for the selected loco.) I was convinced, placed an order with Scograil and 24 hours later was the proud owner at a very competitive price of my own system. No connection to Scograil, just a very satisfied customer ( They have a deal on again now at a very good price) I've found it a great system. My grandkids found it very easy to use and I particularly like the fact I can set up a Throttle on a device for them with a custom roster that means they can ONLY run the locos I want them to run, AND I can monitor the locos they are running on my Device and take control at any time to stop 'deliberate' accidents !

 

Highly recommended 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Matt C

[JimFin]

5 hours ago, Hobb0 said:

Little has been said about Bachmann controllers - any thoughts

 

I use the Bachmann Dynamis Ultima on my home and exhibition layouts with RocRail software on a laptop and the control is all by mouse from the screen.

 

Bachmann of course don't make this stuff, it's a rebadged ESU Navigator with a fairly dodgy hand controller that links up (on a good day) with an IR connection. Since the Ultima has a USB connection it's ideal to link it to the computer.

 

I don't use and automation but some route control so that one button sets all the points for that route. As locos are identified by thumbnail images on the screen, no real issue knowing numbers to key onto a handset. I have set the display up (wide screen gaming monitor) with the full available roster, a digital mimic board for the point, accessory and sound controls, adjacent to that a section for locos rostered for up traffic, next for down traffic and finally a section for station pilot  / free direction stock.

 

 

Big advantage is it takes about 10 minutes for a new operator to be competent, including one committed analogue user who could not get on with digital but found this to be no problem. My grandchildren (7 and  9) were quite happily running the layouts at Warley this year.

 

We do some remote operation using the RocWeb add on which allows any phone or tablet on the same network to act as a hand held. To that end, each layout has a built in router and discreet WiFi.

 

About the only down side I know of - it would not support detection and it is limited to 20 functions.

 

Since I have no plans to use detection and probably only use 5 or 6 functions on the sound equipped loco's anyway - it fits the bill for me.

 

Essentially all I am using the Ultima for is a translation box to pass the data from the laptop to the layout in DCC format. 

 

Guess you need to really analyse where you want to end up with your system and buy with capability to match your ambitions.

 

[melmerby]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I think the principle I would adopt is that a manufacturer of DCC kit only is likely to deliver a better product than a train manufacturer who sees that DCC's time has come,

That rules out the Z21 then. A DCC system made by company that is primarily a train manufacturer.😆

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I think the principle I would adopt is that a manufacturer of DCC kit only is likely to deliver a better product than a train manufacturer who sees that DCC's time has come, and elects to make a system to suit, but doesn't die in a ditch if it isn't wonderful. ……….

Sorry Ian, that worn out old trope is largely based on a fallacy, as demonstrated by the replies just above.

Apart from the fact that Bachmann’s Dynamis and its later Dynamis Ultima incarnation, are rebadged versions of a ( now discontinued) ESU starter system, Roco have a long history of selling credible and highly regarded own brand DCC systems, including the MultiMaus and highly rated Z21 family.

 

Turning the tables, both ESU and Lenz have become manufacturers of RTR models.

As they are now model makers, does that diminish their DCC credentials?

 

 

.

[Prof Klyzlr]

On 30/12/2022 at 04:17, WIMorrison said:

You may run into issues if you want to integrate and interface to computer systems. 
 

NCE don’t release their interface documentation to the developers of software and they are therefore forced to reverse engineer the interface to make it work, this can result in capability issues when NCE release or simply just start using undocumented updates and changes to their firmware as the reverse engineering needs to be done again.

 

Personally I would avoid a system that doesn’t release the interface specifications.

 

As for being the most popular, I don’t think that would stand any test 😉

 

Couple of comments:

 

- Integrate NCE <> software = NCE USB Interface (job done)

 

- "NCE don't release interface documentation" = see Iowa Scaled Engineering ProtoThrottle, where NCE willingly and helpfully provided complete throttle-buss protocol details, allowing a direct "Protothrottle --> NCE" bridge. Digitrax "LocoNet" on the other hand... (even if you want to willingly pay the licensing fee, Digitrax seem oddly/randomly-selective as to who gets "LocoNet certification" and protocol detail source access).

 

- NCE also provides their Throttle Buss protocol in many of their manuals, see the MiniPanel manuals....

 

- Re "NCE not standing test of most-popular" = dependent on the geographic market in question, but surveys by Model-Railroad-Hobbyist magazine (IE not commissioned or run by a given DCC manuf) tells a significantly clear story...

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to get more modelling done in 2023,

Prof Klyzlr

Edited December 31, 2022 by Prof Klyzlr