The best currently available dcc controller

[halsey]

10 hours ago, Mike at C&M said:

Having been at a Bachmann traders workshop earlier this week, can I recommend the forthcoming Bachmann Kinesis system.

 

Due out in about 3 months time, and with an RRP of £399, which many retailers will discount.

 

An initial appraisal is available at https://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2023/11/Bachmann-kinesis-model-railway-control-redefined/ and further detailed information will be made available as release time approaches.

 

For someone with my very basic needs at a competitive/sensible price backed by a reputable brand this certainly looks worthy of further investigation

 

Any info on the ease/speed of switching from model to model?

 

Thanks for the info................

Edited February 29 by halsey

[Mike at C&M]

38 minutes ago, halsey said:

Any info on the ease/speed of switching from model to model?

Very easy.

 

There are three buttons towards the bottom of the handset - locomotives, functions and accessories. Press the one you want to choose.

Enter the number of locomotive/function or accessory and then hit the select button. 

And on you go.

[Izzy]

Personally I think the Kinesis system would benefit from a different handset design. A smartphone screen type one instead of all the buttons but combined with rotary control for the actual throttle/speed. Don’t know whether that combination is feasible electronically, perhaps not.

[halsey]

30 minutes ago, Mike at C&M said:

Very easy.

 

There are three buttons towards the bottom of the handset - locomotives, functions and accessories. Press the one you want to choose.

Enter the number of locomotive/function or accessory and then hit the select button. 

And on you go.

 

Thanks but that isn't any faster than the GM prod.

 

One other issue I have with the GM is if I'm running 3 locos  (main up and down going round and round and shunting) if one derails I cant quickly turn everything off to avoid collisions/damage other than switching the whole layout off at the wall socket.

 

I have never played with any other DCC systems so perhaps my criticisms are universal

[Mike at C&M]

11 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

One other issue I have with the GM is if I'm running 3 locos  (main up and down going round and round and shunting) if one derails I cant quickly turn everything off to avoid collisions/damage other than switching the whole layout off at the wall socket.

The big red "STOP" button on the Kinesis will do this.

[Nigelcliffe]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

A paltry 2 amp track output, with no advanced features like RailCom or RailCom Plus.

Limited, tiny, dated handset display. 
Too many buttons on the handset.

Really needs a PC operating with the included RailController software, to take full advantage of its feature set.

 

Otherwise, it’s a very good package for the price and by far the cheapest wireless (hardware based) system.

 

I think by the time the Kinesis is available to buy, the Uhlenbrock DaisyII WLan will also be available.  That's listing at Euro330 in various EU-land retailers, so expect it to be £330 in the UK.    

 

The DaisyII is a well designed handset.   Uhlenbrock have RailCom and LocoNet.   And support in numerous computer control packages.  That's a lot of boxes ticked...

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

53 minutes ago, Mike at C&M said:

Very easy.

 

There are three buttons towards the bottom of the handset - locomotives, functions and accessories. Press the one you want to choose.

Enter the number of locomotive/function or accessory and then hit the select button. 

And on you go.

 

19 minutes ago, halsey said:

 

Thanks but that isn't any faster than the GM prod.

 

One other issue I have with the GM is if I'm running 3 locos  (main up and down going round and round and shunting) if one derails I cant quickly turn everything off to avoid collisions/damage other than switching the whole layout off at the wall socket.

 

I have never played with any other DCC systems so perhaps my criticisms are universal

 

Yes, I think most of us would expect a shorter sequence to qualify as "easy switching".

 

It should be either two button presses: <retrieve from stored locos> <single digit store position number, N>

or with N dedicated buttons on the handset, just a single button press: <retrieve stored loco N>

 

[Mike at C&M]

Pardon my ignorance, but what can be speedier than pressing a button to choose what you want - locomotive/function or accessory, and then putting in the number of your chosen item, and hit the select button to confirm your choice?

 

For example, [Locomotive][1][Select], rather than inputting 0001 for your 4 digit address?

 

Once you are used to a system, speed of selection on most systems takes a tiny amount of time. 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, halsey said:

One other issue I have with the GM is if I'm running 3 locos  (main up and down going round and round and shunting) if one derails I cant quickly turn everything off to avoid collisions/damage other than switching the whole layout off at the wall socket.

 

Yes, you can. Just press and hold down the Red 'stop' loco button. This will engage the circuit breaker/ short circuit as with a normal detected short. It will stay like this until you re-press/hold down this button which will then re-set the base/command station and return it all to normal. 

Edited February 29 by Izzy
add word

[Crosland]

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Just one knob and that is with a cord which means it doesn't really meet the original requirement for two knobs  or mobility either 🤣

 

So what doe the Radio on and radio status indicate?

[WIMorrison]

1 hour ago, Crosland said:

 

So what doe the Radio on and radio status indicate?

 

Good question because they show a cord with the hand controller and sell the cord as a separate replacement item 

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, halsey said:

One other issue I have with the GM is if I'm running 3 locos  (main up and down going round and round and shunting) if one derails I cant quickly turn everything off to avoid collisions/damage other than switching the whole layout off at the wall socket.

 

I have never played with any other DCC systems so perhaps my criticisms are universal

Most systems have a panic button of some sort

[melvin]

This question always creates lots of debate. No harm in that.

My response is. See if you can get hands on experience. Digitrax of Lincoln have a dedicated layout with most but not all DCC Control systems. You can play with them all, and get good advice. Good Luck.

[Harlequin]

I started to think about what sort of wireless handset I would like to use and so just for fun, I drew one:

 

The key points are:

• Ergonomic design. Rounded back like a mouse with indent so it sits naturally in the hand and won't slip out of position.
• Basic operation one handed without having to look at the handset. Throttle wheel and side buttons can be worked by the thumb, left or right handed.
• Big buttons using proper microswitches for reliability and better usability (again like a mouse).
• Easy loco switching. While you're in Drive Mode just use the A-D buttons to call up a stored loco immediately with a single click.
• High res colour screen.
• Belt hook and wrist strap.

This is just for fun remember!

 

Edited March 1 by Harlequin

[smokebox]

OK but no cup holders 😄

[jaym481]

14 hours ago, Izzy said:

Personally I think the Kinesis system would benefit from a different handset design. A smartphone screen type one instead of all the buttons but combined with rotary control for the actual throttle/speed. Don’t know whether that combination is feasible electronically, perhaps not.

ESU does that.

https://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/mobile-control-ii/

Edited February 29 by jaym481

[GrumpyPenguin]

2 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

I think ESU does that.

They do indeed and it's also available re-badged from PIKO.

[Damo666]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I started to think about what sort of wireless handset I would like to use and so just for fun, I drew one:

 

The key points are:

• Ergonomic design. Rounded back like a mouse with indent so it naturally sits in the hand in the right way.
• Basic operation one handed without having to look at the handset. Throttle wheel and side buttons can be worked by the thumb, left or right handed.
• Big buttons using proper microswitches for reliability and better usability.
• Easy loco switching. While you're in Drive Mode just use the A-D buttons to call up a stored loco immediately with a single click.
• High res colour screen.
• Belt hook and wrist strap.

This is just for fun remember!

 

Hi Phil,

 

I commend you for such an ergonomic handset. Not just that it neatly fits in your palm but also that the control wheel is easily used by left and right-handed people. Did you say you were a product designer in another life?

 

I could never fathom why anyone would produce such an unsightly block as the DigiTrax DT402 (to me it looks like one of my projects from a 1970’s Everyday Electronics magazine home project), and the new Bachmann Kinesis hand unit is just dog-ugly. (No offence to any dogs). Seriously, have the designers got no aesthetic or practical usage skills? It like someone said to them “Look at what Apple designs and do the opposite”. (PS: I’m not an Apple fanboy, very much PC and Android at the moment).

 

Pity its just vapourware, hope someone pick up the phone to you to progress the concept.

[Ron Ron Ron]

59 minutes ago, chiefpenguin said:

They do indeed and it's also available re-badged from PIKO.

Correction.

Was available from PIKO.

The original PIKO SmartControl, was a rebranded ESU CabControl, with a slightly lower power output.

It’s no longer sold by PIKO, who replaced it a couple of years ago with a more budget orientated SmartControl Light, which is a completely different system, based on the Uhlenbrock Daisy.

 

 

The control knob of the ESU / PIKO handset is motorised, well weighted and can be operated by your thumb.

There are fast access buttons on the side of the handset, that can be assigned to various functions of your choosing.

Below this is the touch screen, that operates like a smartphone screen, allowing quick access to functions, switching between locos etc.

 

The first photo shows only the Android Home Screen, before the control app is opened.

 

   

[Ron Ron Ron]

Does Handset 1 look quite familiar ?

 

Edited March 1 by Ron Ron Ron

[Nigelcliffe]

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I started to think about what sort of wireless handset I would like to use and so just for fun, I drew one:

.....

 

 

Compare with TCS UWT-50  (I prefer the 50 over the UWT-100).    I think as handset designs, the TCS units are amongst the best on sale.   But, as with everything, need to check/create suitable infrastructure in the layout to use them.  

 

The trouble with any handset design work is the cost of manufacturing them.   Plastics/hardware are expensive for the numbers likely to be sold for for model railway controllers.  

 

 

( I used to work in the design of phones,  biggest difference to model railway controllers being the numbers likely to be sold.  Which in turn relates to cost to make, and budget available for design work ).  

 

- Nigel

 

[GrumpyPenguin]

9 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Does Handset 1 looks quite familiar ?

 

I would say that the Multimaus (in all of its varients) is one of the best handhelds on the market.

 

(Thanks for the info' on the Piko Smart - I had one, loved it but it failed three times, went back to Piko & the third time they replaced it with a new interior, lost confidence with it, sold it on & it's been 100% ever since !).

[melmerby]

24 minutes ago, chiefpenguin said:

I would say that the Multimaus (in all of its varients) is one of the best handhelds on the market

The only drawback I have found with mine is the lack of occupancy status.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, chiefpenguin said:

I would say that the Multimaus (in all of its varients) is one of the best handhelds on the market.………

It’s a well liked design they’ve stuck with from the original tethered MultiMaus (Roco red & Fleischmann grey),

…..through the short lived, wireless MultiMaus Pro (Roco blue & Fleischmann blue and purple)

..…to the more recent wireless MultiMaus WLAN (black) and new, tethered MultiMaus Z21 (white - replaces the now defunct red MultiMaus).

 

Ergonomically it has some limitations, but makes up for that with other ergonomic strengths and ease of use.

It sits very nicely in the hand and is simple to operate.

All handsets without glass screen, touch interfaces are going to be ergonomically limited when it comes to the range of features and operational usability that’s available with DCC today.

 

 

.

[Oldddudders]

12 hours ago, Damo666 said:

I could never fathom why anyone would produce such an unsightly block as the DigiTrax DT402 (to me it looks like one of my projects from a 1970’s Everyday Electronics magazine home project),

Horses for courses. I happily used DT400/402D and DT500 throttles for more than a decade, but now have DT602Ds as well.

 

I do not enjoy touch screens. I have several cameras with such, and the idea that I would need to take my eye from the viewfinder, be it optical or EVF, to change a setting seems anything but useful. Buttons and dials are much more convincing.