Hornby 2023 - New tooling - Streamlined B17/5

[adb968008]

49 minutes ago, palmsticks said:

Beautiful! Was Hunslet no. 193 'Shropshire' fitted with the New Zealand Railways whistle?  It sounds like BR(E) Crosby replica?

I always liked the NZR whistle ever since messing with Ja1275 in 2005 :)

 

 

 

The stack talk from those industial engines is wonderful!

Heres a 1960’s recording.

http://www.brsince78.co.uk/60013.mp3

 

quite different to the 4 sounded on the 60007 link above.

Aiui 60013 had a whistle from New Zealand, rather than a standard A4 whistle.

 

 

Edited January 14 by adb968008

[palmsticks]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Heres a 1960’s recording.

http://www.brsince78.co.uk/60013.mp3

 

quite different to the 4 sounded on the 60007 link above.

Aiui 60013 had a whistle from New Zealand, rather than a standard A4 whistle.

 

 

Thanks for that - how did you find it so fast on brsince78?

 

Playing them back, i'd agree with you that your youtube link of Hunslet no. 193 'Shropshire' sounds more similar to the brsince78 60013 than that quartet of A4 Crosby-esque whistles.  However, I read on the LNER forum that 4492/60013 Dominion of New Zealand's NZR whistle was stolen together with 4489/60010 Dominon of Canada's CPR whistle from Porthmadog in c1963 and never recovered (see link below, post by stembok » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:29).  Do you know if it turned up then? Is it still with no. 193 'Shropshire'?  I wonder what got fittet to 4489/60010  when it got cosmetically restored for the Great Gathering?  So many questions!

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3471&hilit=new+zealand+whistle

 

Soz everyone, this whistling business is a bit off topic but please forgive a little tenuous indulgence!

[Bucoops]

It's fascinating, carry on!

[palmsticks]

24 minutes ago, palmsticks said:

Thanks for that - how did you find it so fast on brsince78?

 

Playing them back, i'd agree with you that your youtube link of Hunslet no. 193 'Shropshire' sounds more similar to the brsince78 60013 than that quartet of A4 Crosby-esque whistles.  However, I read on the LNER forum that 4492/60013 Dominion of New Zealand's NZR whistle was stolen together with 4489/60010 Dominon of Canada's CPR whistle from Porthmadog in c1963 and never recovered (see link below, post by stembok » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:29).  Do you know if it turned up then? Is it still with no. 193 'Shropshire'?  I wonder what got fittet to 4489/60010  when it got cosmetically restored for the Great Gathering?  So many questions!

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3471&hilit=new+zealand+whistle

 

Soz everyone, this whistling business is a bit off topic but please forgive a little tenuous indulgence!

 

For those interested: fascinating thread regards 4489/60010 Dominon of Canada's restoration with commentators addressing the origin of the the CPR whistle fitted during the 2013 cosmetic restoration not originally fitted to the A4 but of similar (same?) type:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/86569-4489-dominion-of-canada/

 

Also, nice slide show of the 2013 cosmetic restoration. 

 

Now just need to know what happedned to 4492/60013 Dominion of New Zealand's NZR whistle...

 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, palmsticks said:

Thanks for that - how did you find it so fast on brsince78?

 

Playing them back, i'd agree with you that your youtube link of Hunslet no. 193 'Shropshire' sounds more similar to the brsince78 60013 than that quartet of A4 Crosby-esque whistles.  However, I read on the LNER forum that 4492/60013 Dominion of New Zealand's NZR whistle was stolen together with 4489/60010 Dominon of Canada's CPR whistle from Porthmadog in c1963 and never recovered (see link below, post by stembok » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:29).  Do you know if it turned up then? Is it still with no. 193 'Shropshire'?  I wonder what got fittet to 4489/60010  when it got cosmetically restored for the Great Gathering?  So many questions!

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3471&hilit=new+zealand+whistle

 

Soz everyone, this whistling business is a bit off topic but please forgive a little tenuous indulgence!

It definitely wasnt me, I wasnt born in ‘63.

I do recall several times being told however 193 had DoNZs whistle, I dont think it was a secret.

Theres a transacord recording of its whistle at speed that matches closely too.

 

Afaik, 193’s whistle was borrowed for use on NWGB no1 on the ELRs first ever train run to Rawtenstall., I was on that train.

You can see the whistle clearly here, but without part of the base.

 

 

 

When they blew it the pressure gauge dropped on this poorly thing

 

This would be 1990. I doubt the then owner of 193 would be alive now, he was quite elderly then. 193 arrived from the SVR I recall, but I dont know where 193 went next, but the Barclay was pretty much done and out of ticket after this, I dont think its run since.

Edited January 14 by adb968008

[palmsticks]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

It definitely wasnt me, I wasnt born in ‘63.

I do recall several times being told however 193 had DoNZs whistle, I dont think it was a secret.

Theres a transacord recording of its whistle at speed that matches closely too.

 

Afaik, 193’s whistle was borrowed for use on NWGB no1 on the ELRs first ever train run to Rawtenstall., I was on that train.

You can see the whistle clearly here, but without part of the base.

 

 

 

When they blew it the pressure gauge dropped on this poorly thing

 

This would be 1990. I doubt the then owner of 193 would be alive now, he was quite elderly then. 193 arrived from the SVR I recall, but I dont know where 193 went next, but the Barclay was pretty much done and out of ticket after this, I dont think its run since.

Nice picture and lovely story.  I would love to track down that transacord recording and have a listen.

 

I did find somewhere that the 193 is under overhall but I've misplaced the link amongst the 10000 tabs I seem to have open dedicated to whistles (Mrs P thinks I've gone loopy). When I find it again, I shall try to get in touch. 

 

Anyway, studying the pic of the Barclay, I'm not so sure that is a NZR whistle.  It looks too tall (or not fat enough).  Difficult to gauge as its sticking up in the air on such a small engine, and that is a lot of whistle.  It has the stepped feature of the different length tubes for each note but missing the "fins" around like the NZR whistle.  It looks from the picture that the number of step is even - although this could just be the angle of the pic, but if so I would hazard a guess that the it is a 4 note chime rather than the 5 of the NZR or the 3 of the typical South African Railways.  I intially thought the SAR was a good match for it but now I'm not so sure.  It may well be that i've whistling up the wrong tree.

 

Found some nices pics of 4492/60013 Dominion of New Zealand with NZR whistle that make for an interesting comparison and are similar to what I remember on top of Ja1275 - although I don't have a picture. Edit: yes I do!

 

From the LNER forum

 

 

From Flickr

 

4492 Dominion of New Zealand as originally fitted with the Crosby 3 not chime before 1939 when it was fitted with the NZR whistle 5 note Nathan(?) chime - (There is a nice pic of DoNZ in LNER livery with NZR whistle Yeadon's Vol2, pg 30)

 

 

For completeness, here is a link for a typical SAR 3 note chime:

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/south-african-railways-triple-tone-chime-whistle-a-2009nov-0465.html

 

Brand new NZR 5 note chime:

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=5196901923671887&set=pcb.5196902437005169

 

 

 

Edit: Turns out I do have a picture of Ja1275s whistle!

 

Thats probably all I have on DoNZ's whistle.  Probably should get back to fancy dressed up Sandringhams before someone notices and tells me to go whistle...

 

Edited January 15 by palmsticks
One more whistle

[Steamport Southport]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

It definitely wasnt me, I wasnt born in ‘63.

I do recall several times being told however 193 had DoNZs whistle, I dont think it was a secret.

Theres a transacord recording of its whistle at speed that matches closely too.

 

Afaik, 193’s whistle was borrowed for use on NWGB no1 on the ELRs first ever train run to Rawtenstall., I was on that train.

You can see the whistle clearly here, but without part of the base.

 

 

 

When they blew it the pressure gauge dropped on this poorly thing

 

This would be 1990. I doubt the then owner of 193 would be alive now, he was quite elderly then. 193 arrived from the SVR I recall, but I dont know where 193 went next, but the Barclay was pretty much done and out of ticket after this, I dont think its run since.

 

I thought it was owned by Russell Walker. Far from being elderly I think he's younger than me!

 

Bought it from Peak Rail ISTR as they thought it was too big at the time.

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

55 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I thought it was owned by Russell Walker. Far from being elderly I think he's younger than me!

 

Bought it from Peak Rail ISTR as they thought it was too big at the time.

 

 

Jason

I dont know that name.

 

193 arrived at Bury non runner, it was finished and partially repainted.

As far as I recall, the chime whistle came a few months into service when it was rededicated its name, though intrigued ive looked on flickr and can see it had the chime prior at Llangollen too.

 

it never got the full lining repaint (which was supposed to match 3776/ no 8).

 

193 left for Churnet valley, but when I saw it there it had its hooter back.

 

Flickr/url c1991 not mine

 

ive not seen 193 since Churnet Valley, must 30 years ago. Where is it today ?

 

Flickr url/ not mine. (You can zoom into this one quite well).

 

ive not seen 1927 in 30 years either, but in this 2015 image it has no whistle…

 

https://locoyard.com/2015/05/28/bury-transport-museum/099-2015-east-lancashire-railway-bury-transport-museum-1927-andrew-barclay-bcgd-0-4-0st-no-1/

if its not DoNZs whistle, any ideas what it is, as its not a regular A4, its nothing like 71000’s whistle either, which is a different pitch to the other BR stds.

Edited January 15 by adb968008

[PhilJ W]

On 10/01/2023 at 07:44, Hroth said:

It's GE section favouritism all over again!  You mark my words, next year Hornby will produce an E4!

 

I do hope so, and an F7 to complete the set.

[locoholic]

Has there been any date given for the streamlined B17s to appear?

[2750Papyrus]

1 hour ago, locoholic said:

Has there been any date given for the streamlined B17s to appear?

Hornby website quotes "Summer 2024".

[Downer]

I see that Hornby are releasing a HM7000 sound file for the B17/5 this autumn.  Does anyone have any idea as to whether the B17/5s sounded any different to the unstreamlined B17s?

[Steamport Southport]

13 minutes ago, Downer said:

I see that Hornby are releasing a HM7000 sound file for the B17/5 this autumn.  Does anyone have any idea as to whether the B17/5s sounded any different to the unstreamlined B17s?

 

I don't think there was any mechanical difference apart from the cladding.

 

They did have A4 style chime whistles but they were removed during World War Two.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b17.php

 

 

Jason

[Ian Hargrave]

The apple green version was on display at the NEC this weekend. Very tempting indeed. 

[No Decorum]

16 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

The apple green version was on display at the NEC this weekend. Very tempting indeed. 

No trailing wheels to make a mess of and, it is to be hoped, no lights.

[Ian Hargrave]

Just now, No Decorum said:

No trailing wheels to make a mess of and, it is to be hoped, no lights.

 
In truth,I couldn’t tell but yes I hope not…..having just had a running demo of the Black 5 lit up like the front end of a Pendolino on which I travelled back to New Street later.

[No Decorum]

16 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
In truth,I couldn’t tell but yes I hope not…..having just had a running demo of the Black 5 lit up like the front end of a Pendolino on which I travelled back to New Street later.

Don’t tell me! Could we be in for another relatively flawless loco like the Standard 2? Consternation at Hornby! “How did that slip through? Don’t let it happen again!” Sarcasm mode off. Seriously, If Hornby can start producing decent locos it would be very welcome. They’ll probably be relatively expensive but I don’t mind that so much if I get a decent product. Who knows? It might start to turn the company around.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 minute ago, No Decorum said:

Don’t tell me! Could we be in for another relatively flawless loco like the Standard 2? Consternation at Hornby! “How did that slip through? Don’t let it happen again!” Sarcasm mode off. Seriously, If Hornby can start producing decent locos it would be very welcome. They’ll probably be relatively expensive but I don’t mind that so much if I get a decent product. Who knows? It might start to turn the company around.

Wholeheartedly agree with that. I’d prefer to regard the Black 5 issues as a blip in anotherwise purple patch since lockdown. 

[No Decorum]

1 minute ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Wholeheartedly agree with that. I’d prefer to regard the Black 5 issues as a blip in anotherwise purple patch since lockdown. 

The Turbomotive was another blip. Not to mention the APT. I’ll stop there. I’m not Hornby bashing; just how I see the things.

[Ian Hargrave]

OK…fine but I have to say Iike my Turbo and the attached lights don’t bother that much because they show express passenger and aren’t mounted on the smokebox door like the carbuncle on the Black 5. But yes,I take your point.

 

[PhilJ W]

42 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Don’t tell me! Could we be in for another relatively flawless loco like the Standard 2? Consternation at Hornby! “How did that slip through? Don’t let it happen again!” Sarcasm mode off. Seriously, If Hornby can start producing decent locos it would be very welcome. They’ll probably be relatively expensive but I don’t mind that so much if I get a decent product. Who knows? It might start to turn the company around.

I have several Ruston 48DS models and they are very good and can even run over points without the match wagon and without stalling.

[No Decorum]

3 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

OK…fine but I have to say Iike my Turbo and the attached lights don’t bother that much because they show express passenger and aren’t mounted on the smokebox door like the carbuncle on the Black 5. But yes,I take your point.

 

There’s a lot to like about the Turbomotive and your point about the express passenger headcode is well made. It might be possible to reduce their brightness if a decoder is installed. However, it has a permanently fixed lamp on the back of the tender (not that permanent – I’ve removed it by breaking it). The Black 5 is worse because the fixed tender lamp is painted white and is more obtrusive. In fairness to Hornby, Dapol’s otherwise superb Toplights also have permanently fixed lamps.

 

I confess that my steamers have been running for years without headcodes to the consternation of model signalmen. I’m beginning to think that it’s time I got a grip and started adding lamps. Unpowered, of course.

[Jammy2305]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

The apple green version was on display at the NEC this weekend. Very tempting indeed. 

 

Any photos?

 

- James

[Ian Hargrave]

30 minutes ago, Jammy2305 said:

 

Any photos?

 

- James

Sorry no.

[Boleyn Road]

Here’s a picture I got of the sample. Apologies for the reflection, the Hornby cabinets are always a pain to photograph!