EFE Rail Class 143/144 Pacer

[Great Waterton]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Clearly they are selling, hopefully they or Realtrack will release some non-weathered ones in due course.

 

I'm sure EFE will continue to pump these out steadily in the future, even if it's only one or two a year. From a business point of view it makes sense for them to make the most of the tooling before the (PERHAPS superior?) Realtrack offering comes along. There's also plenty of liveries to choose from too.

[ruggedpeak]

7 minutes ago, Great Waterton said:

I did always wonder why Realtrack never made another batch of these after their initial run/s? With different numbers and destinations, naturally, but I'm positive they would have sold well. To me personally it's always felt like a case of "We've made them, that's your lot, move on" which seems an odd way to go about things. However, I'm certainly no businessman so perhaps someone knows otherwise...?

Every batch is a financial gamble and Realtrack are not the size of Hornby or Bachmann and cannot afford, one assumes, to bring out a batch that didn't sell. The Hornby and Bachmann threads are littered with examples of new products and re-runs of things that 'customers' said they'd definitely buy but when they came out they didn't, as are the bargain sections of model retailers where various models keep popping up in batches.

[cs233]

As Regional Railways seems to be selling out. A Provincial blue livery looks set to be a winner also and perhaps could even sustain multiple running numbers. Makes you think if EFE also have a 142 underway....

[Porcy Mane]

On 11/02/2023 at 15:41, Tramfabriek said:

I got the GWR Pacer today and made a short video on a straight track.

 

Good to see someone else keeping an immaculately tidy work area. Man out of my own heart.

 

P

[Great Waterton]

54 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Every batch is a financial gamble and Realtrack are not the size of Hornby or Bachmann and cannot afford, one assumes, to bring out a batch that didn't sell. The Hornby and Bachmann threads are littered with examples of new products and re-runs of things that 'customers' said they'd definitely buy but when they came out they didn't, as are the bargain sections of model retailers where various models keep popping up in batches.

 

I would've thought Realtracks' batches would be smaller than the likes of Hornby and Bachmann. Their 156 are a good example. In any case they can't sell any more until they make them, or have them made, and they've essentially just sat on the tooling until the license expired so it's no wonder someone else wants a go at them.

 

Hornby have a tendency to make daft choices of niche items when it comes to diesels. One every now and again is fine but they do it every year and I'm not surprised a lot of it gets reduced or is sat on shelves as it only appeals to certain people rather than the majority. Pacers on the other hand, love them or hate them, are an essential part of many people's scenes from the mid 80s to just a couple of years ago.

[amwells]

19 minutes ago, Great Waterton said:

 they've essentially just sat on the tooling until the license expired

What does this mean please?

[frobisher]

2 minutes ago, amwells said:

What does this mean please?

 

 I suspect Great Waterton thinks that Realtrack secured an exclusive license to produce the Class 156, which I would hazzard a guess isn't the case given Hornby are still producing 156s...

[Great Waterton]

Not an exclusive license to produce the specific class, but an exclusive license to use the tooling itself. In this case Realtrack had exclusive use of the tooling from Rapido (? I'm not sure as I no longer have one) until a certain date, and once that license had expired the tooling becomes available for others to use/specify a deal to use, again for a specified period of time. At the moment that's clearly EFE/Bachmann, and therefore no one else can use it.

 

I believe it was similar with the Modelzone TPOs from Bachmann some years ago, either the actual tooling or the liveries made? After the exclusive license for Modelzone expired the coaches then appeared in the Bachmann main range.

 

This isn't idle speculation either, this is straight from the horse's mouth at Doncaster Model Railway Show...

Edited February 15, 2023 by Great Waterton

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, Great Waterton said:

Not an exclusive license to produce the specific class, but an exclusive license to use the tooling itself. In this case Realtrack had exclusive use of the tooling from Rapido (? I'm not sure as I no longer have one) until a certain date, and once that license had expired the tooling becomes available for others to use/specify a deal to use, again for a specified period of time. At the moment that's clearly EFE/Bachmann, and therefore no one else can use it.

 

Where are you hearing that from, as it is somewhat at odds with statements from Realtrack? Realtrack are quite clear that they own their 143/144 tooling (and are producing more soon) and the EFE model is not produced from that tooling.

Edited February 15, 2023 by frobisher

[Dicky L]

26 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

Where are you hearing that from, as it is somewhat at odds with statements from Realtrack? Realtrack are quite clear that they own their 143/144 tooling (and are producing more soon) and the EFE model is not produced from that tooling.

Additionally I don't think the Realtrack 143/144 was Rapido either.

[Great Waterton]

15 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

Where are you hearing that from, as it is somewhat at odds with statements from Realtrack? Realtrack are quite clear that they own their 143/144 tooling (and are producing more soon) and the EFE model is not produced from that tooling.

 

The bloke on the Realtrack stand. 😂 I was admiring a Valenta sound fitted HST on their test track at the time. I left with the understanding that although Realtrack are still in the process of producing more Class 143s and Class 144s, they will be made from new tooling that is more sophisticated and up to date than the EFE offering, and will be the same top specification as their upcoming 142. Who's making this is for them is debatable, but people have suggested Accurascale. Charlie even hinted at this in a recent post, either in this thread or another.

 

The EFE model is virtually identical to the Realtrack model, even down to the poor representation of the marker lights. It has however been altered slightly which has upgraded the DCC compatibility but I can't comment further on this as I only run DC. 

[Great Waterton]

1 minute ago, Dicky L said:

Additionally I don't think the Realtrack 143/144 was Rapido either.

 

As I said, I no longer have one so can't check what was on the box. I mentioned Rapido as the 156 was seemingly made by them, and had the same cost cutting features on the BR models so logically my thoughts ran to them first.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Great Waterton

[JohnR]

11 minutes ago, Great Waterton said:

 

The bloke on the Realtrack stand. 😂 I was admiring a Valenta sound fitted HST on their test track at the time. I left with the understanding that although Realtrack are still in the process of producing more Class 143s and Class 144s, they will be made from new tooling that is more sophisticated and up to date than the EFE offering, and will be the same top specification as their upcoming 142. Who's making this is for them is debatable, but people have suggested Accurascale. Charlie even hinted at this in a recent post, either in this thread or another.

 

The EFE model is virtually identical to the Realtrack model, even down to the poor representation of the marker lights. It has however been altered slightly which has upgraded the DCC compatibility but I can't comment further on this as I only run DC. 

 

Well, the "bloke who owns Realtrak" has actually said different on this very thread. 

[Great Waterton]

5 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Well, the "bloke who owns Realtrak" has actually said different on this very thread. 

 

Well, the "bloke who owns RealTRACK" has also said this on this very thread:

 

 

Read between the lines.

 

"Advanced model" = new high specification tooling. Not just a tweaked offering like EFE.

 

"One of the new innovators in the UK market today" = well that certainly isn't going to be Bachmann or Hornby, and I very much doubt it's Dapol or Peco either.

 

The current EFE model is virtually identical to the old Realtrack model aside from small tweaks as I referred to previously. Even if it ISN'T the ex Realtrack tooling, are people suggesting EFE have made their own but copied the previous errors? 😆

 

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, Great Waterton said:

The current EFE model is virtually identical to the old Realtrack model aside from small tweaks as I referred to previously. Even if it ISN'T the ex Realtrack tooling, are people suggesting EFE have made their own but copied the previous errors? 😆

 

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that there isn't some kind of relationship between Realtrack's tooling and the EFE tooling, that seems to be quite obvious.  But as I'd previously said, what has been stated publicly is at odds with what you've reported, and as a primary source I would take what Charlie has said at face value, and I would suggest that you are conflating statements heard with some assumed information.

 

We can infer a whole bunch of things from what has been stated in regards how the initial tooling was made, and who retained the rights to the final CAD to produce the tooling and their potential ability to produce duplicate or modified tooling from that.  We can also infer quite a bit from Realtrack's decision to remove their tooling from the originating manufacturer.

 

 

 

 

 

[Great Waterton]

It was Charlie I was speaking to at Doncaster. 😂 Well, I assume it was, having never met the chap before. But going by other people's descriptions...

 

But yes we'll leave it there for now. Let's get back to complaining about the poor weathering and praying for some proper ones. 

 

[charliepetty]

6 hours ago, Dicky L said:

Additionally I don't think the Realtrack 143/144 was Rapido either.

The Class 143/144 'WAS' started started 14 years ago and made in conjunction with Rapido Trains in Canada, 12 years ago when the 143/144 Pacer was produced we introduced some novel features which included full lighting, full interior, micro drive but with the limitations of a 8Pin standard decoder & plug as then Next 18 and micro decoders were only a dream, the design had 'compromises; as a 144 has many differences to a 143, not sure why the cute EFE model seems to have most of our compromises, such a shame really that a 'Cracking model could have not been produced.  We have 'ALL' the works drawings so we do no the differences.

[Dicky L]

9 hours ago, charliepetty said:

The Class 143/144 'WAS' started started 14 years ago and made in conjunction with Rapido Trains in Canada, 12 years ago when the 143/144 Pacer was produced we introduced some novel features which included full lighting, full interior, micro drive but with the limitations of a 8Pin standard decoder & plug as then Next 18 and micro decoders were only a dream, the design had 'compromises; as a 144 has many differences to a 143, not sure why the cute EFE model seems to have most of our compromises, such a shame really that a 'Cracking model could have not been produced.  We have 'ALL' the works drawings so we do no the differences.

 

I stand corrected. I was basing my incorrect assumption on Rapido being named on the 156 boxes and not the 143/144s

[WILLIAM]

Quick question. Does the model come with any dummy couplers that reflect the prototype? If not has anyone any suggestions on a product to use? Thanks.

 

[frobisher]

52 minutes ago, WILLIAM said:

Quick question. Does the model come with any dummy couplers that reflect the prototype? If not has anyone any suggestions on a product to use? Thanks.

 

I don't think it does, but what you will want when they come out are... Bachmann Europe plc - Functional BSI Coupler (with NEM plug) (x10),Functional BSI Coupler (with NEM plug) (x10)

[WILLIAM]

1 hour ago, frobisher said:

 

I don't think it does, but what you will want when they come out are... Bachmann Europe plc - Functional BSI Coupler (with NEM plug) (x10),Functional BSI Coupler (with NEM plug) (x10)

Perfect, thank you. I also found them available at some retailers.

[JDW]

 

2 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Quick question. Does the model come with any dummy couplers that reflect the prototype? If not has anyone any suggestions on a product to use? Thanks.

 

The pictures on page 1 show four of them fitted with tension lock couplings and one with dummy BSIs in place instead (as per the Realtrack one). 

 

Bit late to seeing this, having been away for a few weeks. It's certainly an interesting development and there is definitely a passing resemblance to the Realtrack model - although you'd hope there would be if they're trying to portray the same type of unit! Ignoring the origin, it's good to see some more DMUs in more liveries being produced, especially ones that haven't been done before. The Regional Railways and TWPTE ones are rather nice, though the weathering isn't the best (OK, it's basic, but I've seen better basic weathering). Despite what Charlie said about an improved version, the Realtrack 143/144 is already a great model, and it's a shame that there haven't been more variations over the years since it was launched - very understandable though, Realtrack being a small company with limited time and money to churn out ever more 143s/144s alongside developing the 156s and now the 142s, so from that perspective, it's nice to see the liveries on offer here. Both RR and TWPTE ones are very tempting, I have to admit, and the Valley Lines one is smart too. 

[Ouroborus]

Happy memories of riding on these units.  Couldn't resist.  Dummy couplings in the box

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ouroborus

[Ouroborus]

Make your own minds up.

[adb968008]

What dates did valley lines livery run through ?