Warley NEC National Show 25th & 26th November 2023

[bbishop]

1 hour ago, roundhouse said:

 

 

We walked in our demo tools on trolleys but those friends that brought in their vehicles didn't have any issues on Friday or Sunday evening. I was actually surprised how quick they were considering its a fair walk to the car park.

Friday was no problem, but on Sunday we suffered from NEC jobsworths.  Also the idiot (demonstrator?) who parked facing outwards outside an "in" gate.  We had to manouever round him to get in and as he had parked in reverse gear without the handbrake, he missed the Yeti by an inch.

Edited November 27, 2023 by bbishop

[MikeB]

I went to the show on Saturday and had a good time.  It’s a major achievement for such a large event to be run by a club rather than by a commercial organisation.

 

What did I not like?  The queue at 0920 on Saturday morning was unexpected (in previous years there has been next to no queue at that time) and disorganised – it seemed to evaporate on the way up the stairs and then reform - and it was unclear if it was for everybody or only for those who did or did not have pre-paid tickets.  As mentioned elsewhere, the plans in the hall had only stand numbers, not names, so no use if looking for a particular trader or layout.  Where were Kytes Lights?  There was a lack of seating around the catering area at the back of the hall.  I never enjoy the delays on the trip down the M1 /M42 on a Friday afternoon in winter, but that cannot be blamed on the organisers, any more than tickets for Model Rail Soctland not being sold on their stand.

 

What did I like?  I thought there was a good selection of layouts.  Some of my favourites were Long Melford, the L&B modular layout and the two that jumped the post-Brexit hurdles to attend from mainland Europe.  I obtained most of what I wanted from the various traders, including the new book on Swiss electrics from the SRS and took advantage of the £10 off any book offer from Pen & Sword.  The left-shopping area near the loco was a great way to avoid carrying purchases around all day, but perhaps that could be better publicised, and why not charge a pound to use it?  Two very pleasant surprises were finding some “not available for a long time” Preiser O gauge figures (on Squire’s stand!) and James Hilton’s new book “The Art of Railway Modelling” on sale.

 

It must be difficult for small traders to swallow all the expenses of coming, but hopefully as well as selling things they had a chance to see some of the show, do some market research and put their wares in front of people who have not found them on the internet.  I find shows useful for finding things I don’t know existed, assessing potentiual purchases and for asking questions.

 

So, overall, enjoyable, tiring and nor cheap, but well done to all involved.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by MikeB

[johndon]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Thank you. I'm still curious as to how the wheel slipping is achieved, my guess is carefully weighted wagons and slope combination.

 

Porcy beat me to it but the wagons are of a weight that the 9F cannot pull up hill alone so the train actually does need to be banked.

[Chris M]

Kytes Lights couldn’t come. They had a flood just before the show. Most unfortunate for them. I hope they have everything sorted out very soon.

[ColinK]

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

The boards lift up but I’d need to build a portable backscene / enclosure and make the wiring more pluggy-inny. The OHLE has removable links over the join too. When it gets extended it will become more difficult to make portable, though but that’s a few years off yet.

well you’ve got 12 months….

[exet1095]

8 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

25p/mile equates to 28mpg, that must be one thirsty car, I've a feeling 25p would easily cover most people's fuel, I'm surprised they didn't tell you the rate beforehand, everywhere I've exhibited has...

 

Regarding the rest I can't help thinking that you may have been better airing your complaints to the organisers first and await their response.

Mileage is a lot more than just fuel. Add servicing and tyres too; it adds up to a lot more than 25p per mile.

[Hobby]

11 minutes ago, exet1095 said:

Mileage is a lot more than just fuel. Add servicing and tyres too; it adds up to a lot more than 25p per mile.

 

I'd expect that from someone claiming for use of a personal car for business use.

 

But this is for a hobby.

 

I'm not in it to make money so if they cover my fuel costs (which are for a normal car, not a gas guzzler) I'm happy, I won't bother claiming if I was going to go anyhow. Perhaps some people regard their appearance as some sort of profession, perhaps they are in the wrong business!

 

Above is a personal opinion BTW!

Edited November 27, 2023 by Hobby

[RJS1977]

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

Little things like no tables available at the start of the show on Saturday next to the entrance for show flyers etc, 

 

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

 

There was a table next to the entrance when the doors opened at 9:15 on Saturday, and I put some leaflets on it. (Though the fact it had a GOG tablecloth on it may have caused some confusion).

 

However I don't think that's really the best place for a leaflet table as it's not very obvious, and when the doors open and there are about 8 lines of people going in, only one lane passes directly in front of it. It didn't look as if many of my leaflets had gone when I left at 18:00.

 

It would be better to have the table (or maybe more than one, in different places) inside the Hall, in a more prominent location - maybe next to the big engine, or by the catering area, or underneath the maps.

[Modelrailwayquest]

Enjoy my take on Warley

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Modelrailwayquest

[br2975]

5 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

Yes, my bad. Checked my photos, it was a 150 sitting partially concealed behind a 153 at Shrewsbury. Punters on the double 153 service from Crewe to Cardiff seemed happy enough, main issue was it was half an hour late!

.

Well at least it turned up

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

All this talk about the show being quiet is making me wonder if I was at the same show? The boundaries for the show had been moved back from previous shows

Not according to the plan

Exactly the same area as used going back to at least 2012 (I've still got them!), possibly earlier.

There were however about 20 less traders this year compared to last year.

[ikcdab]

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

Sorry, I did not make myself clear, the mileage rate that I request when accepting any invitation to exhibit is 45p, based on the IR maximum allowance. This has been understood and paid by Warley since I first started demoing (it was actually 40p back when I started, but has since increased in line with HMRC)

 

Anyway, top and bottom I have submitted my claim and emailed receipts through, lets see what happens. 

I can understand why you feel miffed, you told them what your rates were up front.

However, I am surprised that Warley didn't then try and find someone else who was not quite so extortionate.  45p a mile does seem a very high rate for what is essentially a non-profit making exhibition organised by a model railway club...albeit a big one.

[polybear]

57 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I can understand why you feel miffed, you told them what your rates were up front.

However, I am surprised that Warley didn't then try and find someone else who was not quite so extortionate.  45p a mile does seem a very high rate for what is essentially a non-profit making exhibition organised by a model railway club...albeit a big one.

 

Is it non-profit making?  I thought the whole idea (edit: amongst others) of Clubs putting on exhibitions (apart from attracting new members) was to make a profit in order to fund club activities.

As for Redgate's mileage, well it seems that (and I stand to be corrected on this) it was in line with previous years and this year he stated his terms (several times?) prior to the Exhibition, giving Warley the opportunity to raise this matter and inform him of their (new?) policy.

Some may take the opportunity to either not submit claims at all - that's their choice and it may depend on distance travelled, financial circumstances etc., or to just cover their fuel expenses and not worry about tyres, servicing, wear & tear etc. - again, their choice.

 

edit:  I believe that the EMGS & S4Soc (there may be others) are prepared to cover losses to a degree as they fund exhibitions from yearly membership subscriptions - though making a profit is better!

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by polybear

[RJS1977]

Last year's train strike may also have put some traders off. Whilst none of the traders will have arrived by train, a reduced number of visitors (and hence sales) may have tipped the balance for them financially, and with no guarantee until a couple of weeks beforehand that there wasn't going to be a strike this year, some may have decided not to take the risk.

 

In terms of visitor numbers to this year's show, hard to say how it compares to previous shows given that last year's was strike affected and the show did not take place in 2020 or 2021. My usual route round the show is to start at the back and work forwards - I find that it tends to be relatively quiet to start off with, but at some point I meet a "swarm" of people who started at the front and are working back. This year the swarm didn't seem to peak quite as high, but I think it lasted longer. Possibly some of the departures from the traditional floorplan (like having Squires at the back) contributed to this.

[298]

Something else that doesn't seem to be common knowledge are the competitions run at the show, is this a first for 2023? I've seen a few results posted but would it be possible for a representative from the club to post a list of winners here?

[Craig1989]

Went yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it not sure if we missed readham or if it wasn’t there although it was on the list. Surprised how spacious it was between the aisles and if there is one criticism I would say be easier to keep it in straight lines. It starts like that then at the bottom end opens up and you kind of forget where you been 

 

cheers Craig 

[ikcdab]

27 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Is it non-profit making?  I thought the whole idea (edit: amongst others) of Clubs putting on exhibitions (apart from attracting new members) was to make a profit in order to fund club activities.

As for Redgate's mileage, well it seems that (and I stand to be corrected on this) it was in line with previous years and this year he stated his terms (several times?) prior to the Exhibition, giving Warley the opportunity to raise this matter and inform him of their (new?) policy.

Some may take the opportunity to either not submit claims at all - that's their choice and it may depend on distance travelled, financial circumstances etc., or to just cover their fuel expenses and not worry about tyres, servicing, wear & tear etc. - again, their choice.

 

edit:  I believe that the EMGS & S4Soc (there may be others) are prepared to cover losses to a degree as they fund exhibitions from yearly membership subscriptions - though making a profit is better!

 

 

 

It's non-profit making in the sense that any surplus goes to support the club or fund next year's show. It isn't a "commercial" business and there are not shareholders taking a return from profits.   

[Mallard60022]

6 hours ago, Chris M said:

I'm not involved in this but I can't help but wonder what you expect to gain by publicising this here. Also I can't help but wonder why you are so special that you deserve to get so much more than any other exhibitor.  Some exhibitors quietly decline the offer of expenses which is very kind of them.

Oh dear! How rude.

Phil

[MarkSG]

OK, a few thoughts on the show this year.  

 

Firstly, it was definitely worth going, as usual. I do have a few criticisms, which I'll come to later, but none of them were show-stoppers. There were no queues to get in when we arrived on Sunday morning, and with the benefit of pre-paid online tickets it was straight into the hall. Overall, the layout worked well, and it felt spacious. At no time during the day was I assaulted by a rucksack or poisoned by noxious clouds of BO! Even the photographers were behaving themselves. Contrary to earlier reports, there seemed to be enough seating - certainly, no less than previous years - and we managed to find a table to eat lunch at with no problems. Although I do accept that, as there were only two of us, it was easier as we could share a table with another small group. A larger group who wanted to sit together would have found it harder, and I suspect it was probably more of a problem on the Saturday which is typically the busier day. But that's one of the reasons why I generally go to a big show on the Sunday. 

 

In terms of layouts, I actually found the narrow gauge and smaller scales sections the most interesting, despite being an OO modeller myself. There were some very good OO layouts, of course, but the standouts for me were the two larger OO9 layouts, Clyre Valley and, especially, Bron Hebrog. It's unusual, and refreshing, to see narrow gauge done as a "train in a landscape" rather than minimum space, and both of these layouts did it very effectively. But most of the smaller, more compact narrow gauge layouts were very well presented. Among the more true-to-life models it was also good to see some layouts that were just plain fun, including the fictional settings of Angst Lesspork and Karolina Falls as well as the childhood memories evoked by Binns Road and Loft City Central. Other people have already remarked on the nameless diorama (it was in the list as just "3D Landscape Demo"), but I also felt that Warley MRC's "Cradle to Grave" display was brilliant. Plus, of course, the layouts I'd seen before, including Copenhagen Fields, Moors View, Beijiao and Long Melford Junction, were as good as ever.

 

So, what about the negative side? Well, I do agree with other comments that the overall quality wasn't as good as it has been in the past. There were still enough great layouts to justify the trip, but there did also seem to be a bit more filler than normal. I don't know whether that's simple randomness at work - every year is a different selection of layouts, and they can't all be equally good all the time, so some years are bound to be a better vintage than others - or whether it reflects a deeper underlying issue. Is it getting harder, post-Covid, to find enough top quality layouts to fill a space that large? And if so, what implications does that have for the future of the bigger shows?

 

Also, I was a little disappointed in the trade stands. As I've said earlier, I'm not that interested in the box shifters, so I'd typically skip them anyway, but this year there didn't seem to be as much second-hand stock available as nomal and the specialist traders were noticably thinner on the ground. Somewhat unusually, I didn't buy anything at all from the traders - I don't always spend a lot, but I almost always spend at least something. But not this year. Is this just another blip, or is it also indicative of a trend?

 

So, in summary, definitely worth going, and I'm glad I did. But I did feel that it fell a bit short of standards set by previous years. If I was awarding a grade, I'd give it maybe 7/10. Which is good, but leaves scope for improvement.

 

I did take some photos, I'll post those later in a separate response.

 

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

I'd expect that from someone claiming for use of a personal car for business use.

 

But this is for a hobby.

 

I'm not in it to make money so if they cover my fuel costs (which are for a normal car, not a gas guzzler) I'm happy, I won't bother claiming if I was going to go anyhow. Perhaps some people regard their appearance as some sort of profession, perhaps they are in the wrong business!

 

Above is a personal opinion BTW!

Oh dear...again

Phil

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I can understand why you feel miffed, you told them what your rates were up front.

However, I am surprised that Warley didn't then try and find someone else who was not quite so extortionate.  45p a mile does seem a very high rate for what is essentially a non-profit making exhibition organised by a model railway club...albeit a big one.

and yet another...oh dear.

What is it with this?

Phil

Edited November 27, 2023 by Mallard60022
Care

[MarkSG]

19 minutes ago, Craig1989 said:

Went yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it not sure if we missed readham or if it wasn’t there although it was on the list. Surprised how spacious it was between the aisles and if there is one criticism I would say be easier to keep it in straight lines. It starts like that then at the bottom end opens up and you kind of forget where you been 

 

I'm inclined to agree with that. I do find it easier to navigate round shows that try to keep the layouts in a reasonably regular grid. I do appreciate that that's not always possible when you're short of space and need to play with the tessellation to get it working. But I don't think that's really a problem at Warley.

[Mallard60022]

45 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Is it non-profit making?  I thought the whole idea (edit: amongst others) of Clubs putting on exhibitions (apart from attracting new members) was to make a profit in order to fund club activities.

As for Redgate's mileage, well it seems that (and I stand to be corrected on this) it was in line with previous years and this year he stated his terms (several times?) prior to the Exhibition, giving Warley the opportunity to raise this matter and inform him of their (new?) policy.

Some may take the opportunity to either not submit claims at all - that's their choice and it may depend on distance travelled, financial circumstances etc., or to just cover their fuel expenses and not worry about tyres, servicing, wear & tear etc. - again, their choice.

 

edit:  I believe that the EMGS & S4Soc (there may be others) are prepared to cover losses to a degree as they fund exhibitions from yearly membership subscriptions - though making a profit is better!

Absolutely.

Phil

Edited November 27, 2023 by Mallard60022
Duplicate quote on post for some reason.

[polybear]

30 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

It's non-profit making in the sense that any surplus goes to support the club or fund next year's show. It isn't a "commercial" business and there are not shareholders taking a return from profits.   

 

If the income exceeds the outgoings then they've made a profit; what they then choose to spend it on is immaterial.  It was mentioned earlier that Warley MRC is registered at Companies House** - it is, as a Charitable incorporated organisation.

 

**Presumably (IANAL) to protect the Club and it's Members from personal liability if things go pear-shaped.

 

 

 

 

 

[Barry O]

I have attended 43 shows organised by Warley    starting at the Harry Mitchell Centre..  right up to the latest one at the NEC.

 

My thoughts on this year.. 

 

Layouts.. some very nice layouts..both small and large which showed some very good modelling. These covered a variety of scales, gauges, countries etc.

 

Traders.. I had a list of items.. and despite being limited by being a demonstrator timewise  I managed to clear my list.

 

Small traders are disappearing from the show scene and have been doing so for the last 43 years.. why .. not just costs but also time constraints (preparing for the show, attending the show, fulfilling requests received post show)   which for a small trader may impact their ability to fulfill orders etc.

 

You need to sell a lot of small items to get your rent etc covered.

(Some have disappeared from the specialist shows as well).

 

There is a belief that the standard of layouts does not enough "showstoppers".. well you can only invite layouts which are available for shows...if there are others.. well let the organisers know...and what I think has a huge "wow" factor doesn't  necessarily  get the same support from other visitors.

 

Some of the statements on hall size (floor atea) are trotted out every year.. trust me.. it hasn't got smaller (according to my feet as well as a working knowledge of  the hall dimensions).

 

The big loco is linked into sponsorship.. and is something few, if any , other shows have.

 

The NEC can be a frustration place for all.. but sometimes exhibitors can be just as problematic as any of the NEC team can be. But running a show at the NEC is not gor the feint hearted. If you don't watch out things can go pear shaped very quickly. You can't boss the NEC team around.. its ablotbless flexible than other venues.

 

My own club never make a profit at our Exhibit. We do, however, hope to make an excess of income over expenditure.

 

Every year, as we sell get older, it is, like across most voluntary groups harder to get volunteers to take an active part.. thatvis a very  very large problem not just for Warley but for the hobby as a whole.

 

Baz