TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Back in the day, my memory is that most medium sized and above shows offered barriers. Having returned to the exhibition circuit recently I seem to be finding that even quite well-known and respected shows aren't offering them. It could be that I simply never exhibited at these shows in the past and they never offered barriers or it could be a trend to no longer offer barriers due to the cost and/or the need for fit young(ish) people to go and collect them, set them up and take them back. Either way, there is a problem - the 20ft scenic section of my 26ft x 10ft layout needs barriers. What do people use when they provide their own barriers - what is your experience? I have heard of long 'springs' which bolt on the front of layouts with a rope. Your thoughts please. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I used to borrow a couple of my clubs barriers if I really wanted to go and the show didn't provide them. However, it was generally, no barriers, not interested. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulton Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I bought some post and belt type barriers from Amazon, I do prefer barriers, but have done a few quite large shows in Germany and Holland, no barriers, thought would be a problem, but was not in practice, better behaved visitors maybe? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 33 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: However, it was generally, no barriers, not interested. Yes, that was our policy when we started with my new layout and I have been surprised that some of the shows we have accepted do not provide barriers. TBH it didn't occur to me that a show big enough to accommodate a large niche layout like mine would not provide barriers. But the issue is in two parts 1. As I have said several times on rmweb on different threads, mine is an exhibition-only layout. It's been 11 years work and it has absolutely no purpose other than going to show. 2. It seems that if we stick to only going to shows with barriers we will not be going to many shows. So, what is the way forward? 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: It seems that if we stick to only going to shows with barriers we will not be going to many shows. Or you, and your very large layout, will only be going to the bigger shows. I'd be surprised if the number offering barriers has gone down significatly. Either that, or buy your own. For use, that could be the tipping point between car and van. I suspect it's less of an issue for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 My findings on barriers is that if the exhibition expects the great unwashed to attend then it needs barriers, but smaller shows which includes finescale ones tend to be attended mostly by enthusiasts who know to keep their mitts off. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 34 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Or you, and your very large layout, will only be going to the bigger shows. I'd be surprised if the number offering barriers has gone down significatly. Either that, or buy your own. For use, that could be the tipping point between car and van. I suspect it's less of an issue for you. We already need a ELWB van, but yes it looks like we will need to get some - but what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, woodenhead said: My findings on barriers is that if the exhibition expects the great unwashed to attend then it needs barriers, but smaller shows which includes finescale ones tend to be attended mostly by enthusiasts who know to keep their mitts off. At the Manchester show in December they had barriers but I lost count of the number of times we had to push them back to their initial starting point as the crowds gradually pushed them ever closer to the layout. Expo EM in Bracknell last year didn't, as is often the case with society shows, have any barriers in front of the layout. We have a siding at the front of the layout in which we park some small colliery wagons and one visitor actually moved one of the wagons so he could rest his elbow on the layout! Edited February 16, 2023 by johndon 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 46 minutes ago, woodenhead said: My findings on barriers is that if the exhibition expects the great unwashed to attend then it needs barriers, but smaller shows which includes finescale ones tend to be attended mostly by enthusiasts who know to keep their mitts off. Hmmmm. Not sure about that. I think they just like to pretend their visitors are better behaved. I've had plenty of "enthusiasts" who think reading the odd magazine means they are entitled to fiddle with the trains. I used to spend time disabusing them of this. It was good training to be a Mod here. 😤 The point about shows aimed at the public is well made though. I didn't mind kids so much, but old people really should no better, and frequently didn't. 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 I've just found this photo of some Twickenham MRC barriers we borrowed for a show in 2019. Better than nothing??? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: We already need a ELWB van, but yes it looks like we will need to get some - but what? There are some pictures of the barriers our club built out of plywood over on my blog - https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search?q=barriers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 Just now, Phil Parker said: There are some pictures of the barriers our club built out of plywood over on my blog - https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search?q=barriers Thanks, will look there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Just now, TEAMYAKIMA said: I've just found this photo of some Twickenham MRC barriers we borrowed for a show in 2019. Better than nothing??? Only just. They will move on that floor, so the punters will get right up to the layout, yet provide nothing to lean on - which is what the baseboard is for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: I've just found this photo of some Twickenham MRC barriers we borrowed for a show in 2019. Better than nothing??? Exactly what was supplied at the Manchester show that I mentioned, pretty much useless for stopping visitors getting right up to the layout... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernviscount Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 You might wish to invest in some of the museum type, uncrossable velvet rope! Seriously though, a quick look on amazon brings up a few alternatives. The the seatbelt type barrier with 6 posts, and 3 belts they can cordon off 6M for about £100. Not cheap in my view. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 For our club show we use the CMRA steel barriers that have to be collected and returned from lockups in either Crawley or Welyn Garden City, the 6ft barriers are each estimated at around 9kg each, and the feet 2 or 3 kg each, which made our 'order' 1.9 tons or thereabouts. This weight needs more than a common or garden transit van, and 4 people prepared to take Friday off work to collect it, and then having done a full weekend at the show, to drag them all back. The unload and reload at the venue can probably rely on about twice that number of people, but none are getting any younger and we have been lucky in having help from 'friends and family' to make up the numbers of able bodies, without those people we would have to make the difficult choice to either drop the barriers, or indeed give the show up as beyond the abilities of those available. Jon 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 42 minutes ago, westernviscount said: You might wish to invest in some of the museum type, uncrossable velvet rope! Seriously though, a quick look on amazon brings up a few alternatives. The the seatbelt type barrier with 6 posts, and 3 belts they can cordon off 6M for about £100. Not cheap in my view. Sorry, no. People want something to lean on when watching the trains. If they can't lean on the barrier, they will lean on the layout. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 The moment I rock up to a layout, if it is worth hanging around I lean onto the barrier and get comfy. Standing their without leaning and you are left wondering what to do with your hands - by your side looks formal, in your pockets takes up more space and cross armed is aggressive. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernviscount Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 For a total lack of barriers, perhaps the odd stray finger or grabby hand can be dealt with by the application of some basic people skills and politely reminding about boundaries. People skills and politeness are not in everyones tool kit of course. Perhaps some would be better off exhibiting in one of Damien Hirst's vitrines ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 I have several other concerns about the lack of barriers other than grabby fingers, but I don't want to take this discussion off the main theme. Here is a photo of what I meant by 'springs' with a rope - I think those might be home made - anyone used commercially made ones? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernviscount Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: I have several other concerns about the lack of barriers other than grabby fingers, but I don't want to take this discussion off the main theme. Here is a photo of what I meant by 'springs' with a rope - I think those might be home made - anyone used commercially made ones? Is the gentleman in the foreground demonstrating the ineffectiveness of this method? They seem more of a suggestion than a rule. They may also offer an exciting thing to grab for our younger modelling friends. I would worry about a thing meant to protect the layout being attached to it. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) I can't remember the last time I exhibited at a show with Barriers, my layouts are front operated and never had a finger touch the front of the layout as they have been intercepted long before contact is made... A 6'2" big bloke and some polite "Please don't touch" does the trick. Edited February 16, 2023 by 37114 Typo 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted February 16, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, jonhall said: For our club show we use the CMRA steel barriers that have to be collected and returned from lockups in either Crawley or Welyn Garden City, the 6ft barriers are each estimated at around 9kg each, and the feet 2 or 3 kg each, which made our 'order' 1.9 tons or thereabouts. We used the same barriers but have now decided not to use them anymore. The last load I picked up (on my own) was 1.2T and had to be picked from the stillages and loaded onto an open truck. IIRC The advice now is that only those clubs that use a tail lift can hire them and the last time I was there the average weight of a stillage was .7T. That might not sound much but the car park outside the lock up wasn't flat and a tail lift doesn't sit flat on the ground so it must be fun trying to get a stillage on the lift. I think the storage area has now moved but the weight is still an issue. For our show (this weekend) those exhibiting have been advised that there will not be barriers and I understand it isn't an issue. We need some 20+ Volunteers to run the show and with volunteer numbers tight, the barriers have been dropped. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 16, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2023 A row of Cussons Imperial Leather on the floor about three feet from the layout should suffice. Mike. 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 16, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2023 I'm not prepared to exhibit any of my larger layouts without barriers, too much OLE that would be vulnerable. If clubs are not going to provide then I will seriously look at building a set of the barriers that Phil showed in his link. As the layouts will all need at least a large van then the transport isn't a problem. Andi 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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