St. Simon Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Hi, An interesting discussion, gives something to think about… On my layout, I put information boards on the front of the layout that stick out into the audience, they are A5 sized and held on by velcro. They actually just hold people back enough so the layout isn’t damaged. Simon 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 Barriers don't stop those who are determinated to reach the layout. I took Hanging Hill to Woking one year. This bloke in a tweed jacket and spoke with a plumb in his mouth reach over picked up a scratchbuilt class 15, turned over, muttered "It is not Hornby" and just plonked in down ....not even back on the tracks. He walked off with my mates shouting at him to come back. He is on a par with the bloke who picked up one of my scratchbuilt class 16s from the stock table and had a go at the trader next to the layout because it didn't have a price on it. He would not accept that the loco was mine despite both the trader and me telling him. It was when the trader said to his colleague go get the show manager that he put in down. Both shows had barriers. 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: I have several other concerns about the lack of barriers other than grabby fingers, but I don't want to take this discussion off the main theme. Here is a photo of what I meant by 'springs' with a rope - I think those might be home made - anyone used commercially made ones? Temeraire uses those on Tidworth. They are spring door stops with a length of dowel inserted in the end of the spring and the mounting plate let into the layout. At shows we just twist in the spring and hang the rope on the end. cylinder-projection-door-stops-chrome-plated-10-pack 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 I'm sometimes luckier than others I guess. The late Ian Hollis used to insist on barriers when exhibiting Alkham to the general public, but without when exhibiting at EM type shows. I think the Covid in recent past has altered the attitude that people have, and hopefully how they behave. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Phil Parker said: Sorry, no. People want something to lean on when watching the trains. If they can't lean on the barrier, they will lean on the layout. Unless there is some from of psychological "soft" barrier. The "spring stop/rope" is quite effective in doing this - especially if the rope is brightly coloured. Sometimes, proper barriers can be a negative. Just the place to plonk a small child that can reach over with wandering fingerings. Yet - in all my many years behind layouts, the worst culprits for finger poking are not the kids. Short of something like this - you'll never prevent a tactile approach. 4 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) We used to use these with our layouts because the G scale ones were deliberately low down. You had to weight the bases at the show with water or they were a pain to carry. They slid around so you were constantly moving them back out until we put some anti slip mat squares under them and then you had to empty them at the end. Kids would lean on them or swing on the posts pulling them over too so although they did work they weren’t really worth the effort. Edited February 17, 2023 by PaulRhB 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 6 hours ago, PaulRhB said: Temeraire uses those on Tidworth. They are spring door stops with a length of dowel inserted in the end of the spring and the mounting plate let into the layout. At shows we just twist in the spring and hang the rope on the end. Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind - thanks. My only concern is - how far is the rope from the layout? I really need it to be 18 inches - is that practical? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind - thanks. My only concern is - how far is the rope from the layout? I really need it to be 18 inches - is that practical? It should be, Ian’s are about a foot long dowels and don’t sag. I did wonder if those round screw in eyes in the end of the dowel would work to hold the rope out but Ian just has it looped over each dowel so if anyone falls they just slide off the dowel rather than dragging the layout with them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, PaulRhB said: It should be, Ian’s are about a foot long dowels and don’t sag. I did wonder if those round screw in eyes in the end of the dowel would work to hold the rope out but Ian just has it looped over each dowel so if anyone falls they just slide off the dowel rather than dragging the layout with them. Thanks, I will look into those as a possible. As my layout is 26 x 10 there is no chance of someone falling pulling the layout over, but it might rip a hole in the front of the layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 We found that these homemade 'barriers' do work well. Picture by Phil Hall 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 16 hours ago, fulton said: I bought some post and belt type barriers from Amazon Many thanks for this idea. TBH I had no idea what you meant originally, but now I understand. What is your experience of them? Which ones in particular did you buy? Are they the ones where you fill the base with water or sand? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: Many thanks for this idea. TBH I had no idea what you meant originally, but now I understand. What is your experience of them? Which ones in particular did you buy? Are they the ones where you fill the base with water or sand? It’s worth knowing if the bases are separable on any post system or they are a nightmare to transport. The plastic ones just slide through the base so are quick to assemble but they still take up a fair bit of room. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 11 hours ago, 37114 said: I can't remember the last time I exhibited at a show with Barriers, my layouts are front operated and never had a finger touch the front of the layout as they have been intercepted long before contact is made... A 6'2" big bloke and some polite "Please don't touch" does the trick. Having someone out front will help deter people, especially if they are wandering up and down to poke at couplings or similar. However, I prefer to be at the back, and really don't need to spend all day telling idiots (yes old dear who manged to stick her hand under the Hellingly overhead to point at something, I mean you) to keep their fingers back. 10 hours ago, Dagworth said: I'm not prepared to exhibit any of my larger layouts without barriers, too much OLE that would be vulnerable. If clubs are not going to provide then I will seriously look at building a set of the barriers that Phil showed in his link. As the layouts will all need at least a large van then the transport isn't a problem. Don't blame you. I once watched helpless as a small child on a stool with nothing to hang on to fell forward on to the overhead on a next door layout. Daddy had wandered off to look at a trade stand. I didn't see what the layout owner did next, but I hope at the very least, the distracted parent was taken out and boiled alive. 14 hours ago, westernviscount said: For a total lack of barriers, perhaps the odd stray finger or grabby hand can be dealt with by the application of some basic people skills and politely reminding about boundaries. People skills and politeness are not in everyones tool kit of course. But that means instead of operating the model, or answering questions, you are on constant alert for finger poking. I had to interupt explanations many times to ask people to get their fingers off. Rude to the person you are talking too, even if they understand why you are doing it. 14 hours ago, woodenhead said: The moment I rock up to a layout, if it is worth hanging around I lean onto the barrier and get comfy. Standing their without leaning and you are left wondering what to do with your hands - by your side looks formal, in your pockets takes up more space and cross armed is aggressive. Couldn't have put it better myself. People will lean on something. If it's not a barrier, it's going to be the baseboard. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 9 hours ago, St. Simon said: On my layout, I put information boards on the front of the layout that stick out into the audience, they are A5 sized and held on by velcro. They actually just hold people back enough so the layout isn’t damaged. We did this and it does make a difference. Fingers are kept back a bit and barriers sliding on the floor can't get to the edge of the layout. They weren't structural enough to support a fat modeller, but are defintly worth a try. The added bonus is providing useful information to the visitors, and it was read by many. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Not Jeremy Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) It very much depends upon the style and size of show doesn't it? Warley without barriers would probably be terrifying, but for an awful lot of shows they are neither required nor wanted. For those that worry a lot about this sort of thing- why don't demonstrators at any shows ever have barriers erected in front of their stands? I mean to say, they often have a lot of valuable kit and priceless models on display..... Edited February 17, 2023 by Not Jeremy or nor 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said: It very much depends upon the style and size of show doesn't it? Warley without barriers would probably be terrifying, but for an awful lot of shows they are neither required nor wanted. For those that worry a lot about this sort of thing- why don't demonstrators at any shows ever have barriers erected in front of their stands? I mean to say, they often have a lot of valuable kit and priceless models on display..... Hi when demonstrating we normally have chairs out front for visitors and that helps enormously - haven't had a problem yet ! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 9 hours ago, St. Simon said: On my layout, I put information boards on the front of the layout that stick out into the audience, they are A5 sized and held on by velcro. They actually just hold people back enough so the layout isn’t damaged. 3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: We did this and it does make a difference. Fingers are kept back a bit and barriers sliding on the floor can't get to the edge of the layout. They weren't structural enough to support a fat modeller, but are defintly worth a try. The added bonus is providing useful information to the visitors, and it was read by many. I have a similar but not quite identical issue. Because my layout is so niche (Chinese HO) and has some unique/weird features ( e.g. bright yellow/orange backscene) I think that it's important to inform viewers as much as possible as to what they're seeing and so I made up several displays like this but they are simply velcroed to the front of the layout and hang vertically. So, viewers 18 inches away can easily compare the backscene to the real-life photo, but if viewers are right up close to the layout, they can't. Similarly, I have other displays which sit on a small table in front of the layout which engage with viewers (especially children) and that table sits in the gap between the barriers and the layout - again this would be lost/damaged without barriers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulton Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: Many thanks for this idea. TBH I had no idea what you meant originally, but now I understand. What is your experience of them? Which ones in particular did you buy? Are they the ones where you fill the base with water or sand? The ones I bought were from "Costello" but I see now are out of stock, lots of similar alternatives, these have a heavy metal base with the post bolted on, would be better for transport if the post was easily removed, seemed to work well, but like similar free standing barriers may need moving back. I like the idea of the front display boards to keep some distance, but never tried it myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 I've just found this photo taken at Aly Paly and you can see how the various 'bits' which hopefully interact with viewers would be completely hidden if people were tight up against the layout 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 16 hours ago, woodenhead said: and cross armed is aggressive. Usually considered defensive body language not aggressive 😉 Or somewhere if you’re as devoted to cake as Phil and Me just somewhere comfortable to rest your tired arms 😁 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyRule1 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just surprised that no one has suggested electric fences, these are actually fairly cheap in agricultural suppliers, we are getting some for our vegetable garden this year as the deer took much of last year's crop. Although I have not seen any recently there were a number of exhibition layouts that used to have "Danger - High Voltage" notices with the voltage expressed as millivolts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 One problem... Do you inform the show manager of the size of your layout including barriers? I like the idea of the door stopper springs. But. My layout has hung on scenic boards on the front of the layout that are up to 14 inches deep. So to be effective the dowel and springs would have to be at least 2 ft 8 inches long.. Still thinking on that one... I had a small girl " investigate" my sea scene, at the front of the layout, which didn't have it's protective perspex fitted.. the sea weed is wire decorated with tea leaves.. it has sharp points.. She didn't do that again... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said: Warley without barriers would probably be terrifying, but for an awful lot of shows they are neither required nor wanted. Those must be special shows where people don't want to lean on things. Good barriers just make shows more comfortable to attend. They don't stop you talking to the operators, and since they are normally less than a couple of feet from the layout, don't stop you seeing anything. That's the same space you need to let the operator wander up and down the front of a front operated layout. I don't care if it is fine scale goodness, no-one needs to rub thier belly on the front of a layout. 2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said: For those that worry a lot about this sort of thing- why don't demonstrators at any shows ever have barriers erected in front of their stands? Any sensible demonstrator has chairs out the front so visitors can sit and chat about what they are doing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted February 17, 2023 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2023 34 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Usually considered defensive body language not aggressive 😉 Except on Saturday morning at shows when it means 'Entertain and impress me, I dare you.' 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, TheQ said: Do you inform the show manager of the size of your layout including barriers? Yes, if I take barriers. And operating space at the back. If the show provides barriers, they will add space for them. 2 minutes ago, TheQ said: I had a small girl " investigate" my sea scene, at the front of the layout, which didn't have it's protective perspex fitted.. the sea weed is wire decorated with tea leaves.. it has sharp points.. She didn't do that again... Hello. Is that Sue, Grabbit and Run ambulance-chasing lawyers? I want to make a claim. (Sad, but very likely true) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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