Confessions of a Canton goods guard

[Philou]

Here we are - a tad late this evening. It's got most of the places in the Cardiff area highlighted by @The Johnster. I've added some words of my own with the maps so as not to clog up this thread with some musings and additional info:

 

Johnster's Cardiff 08.pdf

 

I might go the other side of the Severn tomorrow and do some of the highlighted areas there.

 

Toodle pip,

 

Philip

[KingEdwardII]

On 27/03/2023 at 14:06, SED Freightman said:

the delights of Brains Dark

The pronunciation of "a pint of Dark" is for me the touchstone of the true Cardiff accent. Not that I ever possessed those wonderful tones, being of valley origins and living in the suburban delights of Coryton during my teenage years. But visits to The Vulcan (now forever preserved in rescued form in St Fagan's folk museum) got me the flavour of the true Cardiff voice, highly distinctive and so very different to the "taffy" of the valleys to the north (still spoken by numerous of my relatives who live there to this day).

 

Yours, Mike.

[Matt37268]

40 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

The pronunciation of "a pint of Dark" is for me the touchstone of the true Cardiff accent. Not that I ever possessed those wonderful tones, being of valley origins and living in the suburban delights of Coryton during my teenage years. But visits to The Vulcan (now forever preserved in rescued form in St Fagan's folk museum) got me the flavour of the true Cardiff voice, highly distinctive and so very different to the "taffy" of the valleys to the north (still spoken by numerous of my relatives who live there to this day).

 

Yours, Mike.

Isn’t there a way of pronunciation involving the the phrase ‘Im going the the Cardiff Arms Park for a pint of Dark?’ It involves dragging out the a’s in each word slightly? 
Apologies if insulting anyone on here with that btw. I can hear it in my head but it’s a bit difficult to put into text. 

[Philou]

10 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

It involves dragging out the a’s in each word slightly?

 

Oh yes - a little difficult to put in print but something like this:  'I'm going to the Kaiairrdiff Aiairrms Paiairrk for a pint of Daiairrk.' No insult taken as it's a quirk of the Cardiff accent - totally different to Newport, but let's not go there!

Edited March 29, 2023 by Philou

[Matt37268]

Just now, Philou said:

 

totally different to Newport, but let's not go there!

You’re talking to someone from the Black Country doing missionary work in Cambridgeshire, the amount of times I get asked what part of Birmingham I’m from is rather frustrating! So no I’m not going to go there! 😜

[br2975]

11 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

The pronunciation of "a pint of Dark" is for me the touchstone of the true Cardiff accent. Not that I ever possessed those wonderful tones, being of valley origins and living in the suburban delights of Coryton during my teenage years. But visits to The Vulcan (now forever preserved in rescued form in St Fagan's folk museum) got me the flavour of the true Cardiff voice, highly distinctive and so very different to the "taffy" of the valleys to the north (still spoken by numerous of my relatives who live there to this day).

 

.

From my bartending days in a BrAIns pub, "The Bulldog" - numerous concoctions were asked for by opunters that would leave today's bar staff open mouthed;

e.g.

Barley Wine,

Guinness topped,

Brown Top,

Snake Bite,

Black and Tan,

and

"half 'n' half"

.

The latter was created by pulling a half pint of BrAIns 'Dark' topped with a half pint of 'Light' ( 'Light' being the name by which BrAIns Bitter was known to all  'real' BrAIns drinkers ) 

.

Later I worked with a lad, who we'll call Tom, and each Friday lunchtime several of us would retire to 'The Admiral Napier' a well known BrAIns pub in the Canton area of Cardiff.

.

Tom was well known for his broad Caaaaaardiff accent.

Peter, another colleague was better known for his sense of humour.

Peter also drank 'half 'n' half'

.

So it came to pass that one Friday lunchtime found us again in the bar of 'The Napier' and it was Tom's round, just before we were to return to ur drawing boards.

Tom and I both drank 'Light' so he pointed at each of us and asked what we wanted.

Peter replied "I'll just have a half please Tom"

We listened intently as Tom stood at the bar, and asked the barmaid for....

.

"Two lights and aaarf an aaarf an aaarf"

.

Cue loud guffaws from our table.

 

45 years later, I doubt Tom is still aware of this set up !

 

[Gopher]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

From my bartending days in a BrAIns pub, "The Bulldog" - numerous concoctions were asked for by opunters that would leave today's bar staff open mouthed;

e.g.

Barley Wine,

Guinness topped,

Brown Top,

Snake Bite,

Black and Tan,

and

"half 'n' half"

I remember some of these from my times as a barman in the Rose & Crown in the Kingsway.  Don't remember serving Barley wine though.  Life was simple we served Brains SA, Dark and Light and lager (Heineken I think), plus the usual shorts.

 

 So true about bitter being called light.  You could always spot a non Kairdiffian or non Brains drinker who always asked for a pint of bitter, rather than a pint of light. 

 

Also had to do all the calculations of the cost of a round in your head, and make sure you gave the correct change as the tills did not  do any calculation for you.  

 

Kairdiff elocution lesson - repeat after me  -  Aaark Aaark the laaark at  Kaiairrdiff Aiairrms Paiairrk 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Gopher

[br2975]

2 minutes ago, Gopher said:

I remember some of these from my times as a barman in the Rose & Crown in the Kingsway. 

.

Don't remember serving Barley wine though.  

 

.

Barley Wine was served in small bottles, and was also suitable for firing Mamod traction engines and track cleaning.

.

Edited March 29, 2023 by br2975

[Matt37268]

13 minutes ago, br2975 said:

.

Barley Wine was served in small bottles, and was also suitable for firing Mamod traction engines and track cleaning.

.

Used to be in 330ml cans back home, mix it half with half a pint of mild… 👌🏻

[Danemouth]

You could ask for "Half of Dark and a Clarks Pie"

 

Dave

[Philou]

Clarks' Pies mmmmmmm .................

 

I have a tale to tell regarding Clarks' Pies. My paternal great Grandmother owned a pie shop in Ponty (Pontypridd for those that may wonder as there's thousands of 'em) and one her specialities was a meat pie. My uncle on my father's side had the original recipe that started with 'Take 1 cwt*. of best beef .......'. It has always been said in the family that when she retired the shop was bought out by .... Clarks' Pies complete with the recipe. Who knows, the pies may still be made to that recipe - but I very much doubt it.

 

(I just hope it's not now Sweaty Betty's pie shop - her speciality in take-aways was a rat on a lead.)

 

*For the young 'uns: 1cwt = 112lbs = 1/20th of a ton approximately 50kg in today's money.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: Bri'sle area coming up soon.

[The Johnster]

Proper Caardiff accents, and you could always tell when a Valleys boy was trying to pass himself off as Cardiff because for some reason they always messed up the extended 'aaaaah' sound and it came out more like an 'air' sound, 'Cair(extended)diff' not the correct 'Caaaaaaardiff'.  Barry accents, best on tv being Derek Brockway the weatherman but he's mellowed a bit in his old age, are similar but a little more lilting and less haaaaarsh.  For an example of proper Cardiff, Frank Hennessey (especially 'The Grangetown Whale'), or Charlotte Church when she's excited/angry.

 

The accent changes over a few hundred yards between Coryton and Tongwynlais, a border reinforced by the M4, but noticeable before it was built. 

 

Newport is an oddity, extending into the lower parts of the Gwent valleys, they have rowndaboots not roundabouts.  Another feature of this area is the use of 'grancher' for grandfather, bampi in the rest of South Wales, Taid in the north of the country.  Not sure I can describe a Swansea accent, but there is one!

 

A junior school delight was to watch the teachers' reactions to hymn singing in assembly at 'aaaaves festival time; 'we plowza feelz and scaaaarrerz a good seed on a laand/burrirriz fed an' wor-orrerd by god'z almigh'eee 'aand'.  Just watch 'em faceplant and shake their heads!  And we were Welsh kids, in those days we could do it in three-paaart 'aaaarmunee!

[rab]

12 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Proper Caardiff accents, and you could always tell when a Valleys boy was trying to pass himself off as Cardiff because for some reason they always messed up the extended 'aaaaah' sound and it came out more like an 'air' sound, 'Cair(extended)diff' not the correct 'Caaaaaaardiff'.  Barry accents, best on tv being Derek Brockway the weatherman but he's mellowed a bit in his old age, are similar but a little more lilting and less haaaaarsh.  For an example of proper Cardiff, Frank Hennessey (especially 'The Grangetown Whale'), or Charlotte Church when she's excited/angry.

 

The accent changes over a few hundred yards between Coryton and Tongwynlais, a border reinforced by the M4, but noticeable before it was built. 

 

Newport is an oddity, extending into the lower parts of the Gwent valleys, they have rowndaboots not roundabouts.  Another feature of this area is the use of 'grancher' for grandfather, bampi in the rest of South Wales, Taid in the north of the country.  Not sure I can describe a Swansea accent, but there is one!

 

A junior school delight was to watch the teachers' reactions to hymn singing in assembly at 'aaaaves festival time; 'we plowza feelz and scaaaarrerz a good seed on a laand/burrirriz fed an' wor-orrerd by god'z almigh'eee 'aand'.  Just watch 'em faceplant and shake their heads!  And we were Welsh kids, in those days we could do it in three-paaart 'aaaarmunee!

I think I might have shard this one before, but my dad

grew up in darkest Cornwall and had the accent to prove it.

 

He used to share a story from his school days, when they were sharing 'news'

Dad was excited to tell the class they'd found a snek (snake).

 

The teacher was very prim and proper; she asked what happened

to the snake. 'Ooh miss' dad replied, 'we killed'n with a aww'.

Teacher wanted to know what a aaw was, and after dad's

failed attempts to tell her, she asked him to draw a picture of it on the board,

whereupon dad drew a lovely picture of a swan neck hoe.

 

The teacher took one look at the finished picture and exclaimed,

'Oh you mean a hoe'!

 

When ever dad took out his hoe in the garden, one of us was sure

to be heard saying, 'Oh you mean a hoe'!

[Philou]

For your delight and delectation, I present the Bristol and Bath areas. If I've missed anything, let me know.

 

As mentioned above the Caiairrdiff accent is not an easy thing to put in writing - it's the pitch what does it!

 

Johnster's Route Learning 03.pdf

 

Bonsoir,

 

Philip

[Philou]

6 minutes ago, rab said:

Oh you mean a hoe

 

Reminds me of my aunt who invariably whilst walking around Cardiff would be asked the way to wherever.

 

One summer she was in Oostende and there too, she was asked the way to ..... this time to Bredene, the town next along the sea-front. The Belgians pronounce it Braydn. My aunt, perplexed, had to think for a moment before replying 'Oh, you mean Bredeene.' So, it happens even abroad.

[johnofwessex]

23 hours ago, Philou said:

So you Mr Johnster, were the one turning the head of my sister! By gad sir, if I had a horse, I'd whip you with it! - er - or something of that ilk.

 

(Nah, my sisters went to Heathfield House and Bishop Hannon - both long gone).

 

Map of Cardiff and immediate surrounds on its way soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

What makes you think that the prospect of that would deter The Johnster, it might encourage him

[Ian Smeeton]

I keep looking at the maps for legends like 'Here be Sea Monsters'

 

Or 'Ere be lorst Brake Vans'

 

Or 'Ere be good kindlin' '

 

Best

 

Regards

 

Ian

[ianathompson]

4 hours ago, rab said:

When ever dad took out his hoe in the garden, one of us was sure

to be heard saying, 'Oh you mean a hoe'!

 Thread drift but I cannot resist!

 

As a young chorister, singing Wesley's "Blessed be the God and Father", I can remember the choitmaster's consternation at our word pronunciation, or elocution if you are polite.

 

 In the bass recitative the words are "for all flesh is as grass" etc etc.

The West Yorkshire rendition was , "fooor aaall fleeesh is as GRASS" with a very short A.

Certainly not cathedral style!

 

Cue choirmater, tearing his hair out, "NO,NO, NO its GRAAAWSS."

 

Fifty years on and we are singing it next week.

I can never ever forget that lesson!

 

Ian T

[Ben B]

On 28/03/2023 at 19:17, br2975 said:

 

.

The foundry coke was not destined for a 'steel works' at Kingswinford, but for Messrs Lunt, Comley & Pitt at Pensnett; from where it was distributed as required to the innumerable smoke belching foundries of 'The Black Country' 

 

I grew up not far from the railhead at Pensnett, where LCP had their yard (despite the name it's actually bit away from K'ford, where I went to school in the 90's). It must have just about been operating when we moved to Dudley in 1990, I have a vague memory of a loco in the yard, but it was probably in the days when it was just recieving bottled water, not mineral traffic.

 

The old branch is still there but mothballed, and the LCP site with its tangle of sidings survived for many years. There was often talk of reopening, invariably quashed by locals who'd extended their gardens onto the formation, or used it to walk their dogs. The mother of a classmate was a vocal opponent, convincing other residents it would be something akin to the WCML, rather than a weekly class 66-hauled goods train.  When I went back home last year, the LCP site had been bulldozed and landscaped, presumably for yet more housing, so the revival of the branch is probably doomed for good now. There had at one time been mention of conversion for trams, or even reopening the whole route to Wolvo.

 

Interestingly most of the LCP shunting locomotives appear to have survived, including a nice little Ruston '88 plinthed nearby on the Pensnett Trading Estate, the successor to Lunt Cromley and Pitt (nowadays rebranded to London and Cambridge Properties!)

[F-UnitMad]

8 hours ago, Ben B said:

The old branch is still there but mothballed, and the LCP site with its tangle of sidings survived for many years. There was often talk of reopening, invariably quashed by locals who'd extended their gardens onto the formation, or used it to walk their dogs. The mother of a classmate was a vocal opponent, convincing other residents it would be something akin to the WCML, rather than a weekly class 66-hauled goods train.  When I went back home last year, the LCP site had been bulldozed and landscaped, presumably for yet more housing, so the revival of the branch is probably doomed for good now.

The site is now covered with Industrial Units, and a big pile of soil (a.k.a. "landscaping" 🙄 ) is in front of the road overbridge, so no chance of the branch re-opening at all now.

I recall the opposition to re-opening, based largely on the "fact" local residents would be kept awake all night by a big diesel engine. The Company I worked for at the time has a storage warehouse on the industrial park, to & from which is a steady stream of trucks at all hours. Seems to me the locals prefer HGVs going past their front doors at 2am - weekends included - than an occaisional train. 

I hope that 'vocal opponent' lives on the main road, preferably next to a large pothole.... 🤣🤣🙄🙄👍👍

Edited March 30, 2023 by F-UnitMad

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I hope that 'vocal opponent' lives on the main road, preferably next to a large pothole.... 🤣🤣🙄🙄👍👍

Or even better, a loose drain cover.

Before we moved, there was one on the main road 1/4 mile away which we could hear clatter as buses and lorries hit it.  Not disturbing for us, but it must have been a lot worse down beside it.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

12 hours ago, ianathompson said:

Cue choirmater, tearing his hair out, "NO,NO, NO its GRAAAWSS."

Being of northern(ish) upbringing, I use short As too.  So I would go to Bath not Baarth.  But I have a problem with its longer name - I couldn’t go to Bath Spa (both short As), nor Bath Spar, so it has to transform to Baarth Spar!

At one stage I could tell the difference between a Geordie accent and one from Sund’land, but probably not now.
Aren’t language and accents wonderful!

Paul.

[SED Freightman]

On 28/03/2023 at 00:09, The Johnster said:

 Long Dyke fools even people who live within sight of it, it's a very old Cardiff name for the section of the sea wall that once upon a time ran between the Rhymni River and the Taff along the foreshore, long ago dug up to build the West and East Docks, spoil from which was tipped on the foreshore so as to eventually enclose the Roath Dock, and spoil from that built up the foreshore to allow construction of the Queen Alexandra.  The shoreline has moved maybe half a mile on average from the original seawall southeastwards out into the estuary, a process still continuing as land reclamation is ongoing along Rover Way.   The southeastern edge of Cardiff Tidal Sidings was the actual foreshore line when those sidings were built (1890s?); the esturary is now nearly half a mile away.  In railway terms, Long Dyke is the marshalling yard between Tyndall Street and the SWML, other side of the SWML from Newtown Goods, in the Y between the SWML and the docks branch at that point, and I'll confess to never having heard of it by that name prior to my railway career.  It seems to have survived only in railway usage, and is no doubt being forgotten even there now!

 

Johnster, I'm sorry for the temporary diversion of your story onto thoughts of Brains Dark and the pubs that dispensed it. Comments by others have got me thinking about a few visits to the Cardiff area in the late 1980's by a group of mates.  I remember visiting the Ninian Park (pub) and also a pub en route there from Cardiff Central  that had a skittle alley (on right hand side of Tudor St perhaps), thete was  also a very modern pub in a basement near the castle. We once ventured out to Radyr and had lunch in a pub near the station, afterwards the landlord was so impressed that we had travelled from Kent that he gave us each a bag of Brains branded items including a glass pint tankard !

 

Returning to topic, thanks for explaining the situation with land reclamation, I guessed the origin of Seawall Rd but not Long Dyke, and assume the very large drain running below Celsa's sdgs on the East side of Tidal Yd may also be related to former reclamation work. 

 

The photo below shows Long Dyke Jn looking East in 2010, although I believe it was subsequently abolished, from your description I guess the yard was originally behind me. Walking here from Castle Works was quite risky as the residents of a block of flats adjacent to the branch had taken to lobbing used nappies off their balconies onto the track !

 

 

[Philou]

7 minutes ago, SED Freightman said:

Cardiff Central  that had a skittle alley

 

That would be the Tudor (now demolished) on the corner of Tudor Street and Fitzhamon Embankment. The more modern one, another BrAIns pub, was the Rose and Crown in Kingsway (gone as well).

 

BTW, seeing as we're into a thread drift, and I don't know if it's the same in other towns in the UK, but most areas in Cardiff carry street names that are themed. For example: Tudor Street and others around were named after nobles of the middle ages connected with the city - Fitzhamon, Despenser, Plantagenet etc.

[br2975]

18 hours ago, Philou said:

Clarks' Pies mmmmmmm .................

 

I have a tale to tell regarding Clarks' Pies. My paternal great Grandmother owned a pie shop in Ponty (Pontypridd for those that may wonder as there's thousands of 'em) and one her specialities was a meat pie. My uncle on my father's side had the original recipe that started with 'Take 1 cwt*. of best beef .......'. It has always been said in the family that when she retired the shop was bought out by .... Clarks' Pies complete with the recipe. Who knows, the pies may still be made to that recipe - but I very much doubt it.

 

(I just hope it's not now Sweaty Betty's pie shop - her speciality in take-aways was a rat on a lead.)

 

*For the young 'uns: 1cwt = 112lbs = 1/20th of a ton approximately 50kg in today's money.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: Bri'sle area coming up soon.

.

The Clarkes Pie company was owned by the 'Dutch' family.

.

They had a bakery / shop at the very bottom of Paget Street, Grangetown - on the corner of Bromsgrove Street.

.

The company also had a shop on Cowbridge Road East, near Victoria Park.

.

A family feud several years ago, resulted in the company being split with the Grangetown set up being known as "Clarke's Original Pies' and the Vicky Park premises being known as "Mary Clarke's Pie Company".

.

Now, real Cardiffians will also recall 'Coombes Pasties' - especially their Jamaican version.

.

And also, Alan Rees' pies, made in Canton.