RCH 1907 Private Owner Wagons - with added 2024 range.

[JSpencer]

Rails SECR versions arrived this morning. Very welcome in helping to rebalance my SECR wagon rakes back towards being mostly opens.

 

The end doors were not glued in though and I now wonder if they could be made working so as to discharge 😅

 

 

[Andy Vincent]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The horizontal strap on the side is probably a washer plate for a more substantial catch on the inside

Having stared (squinted?) further at it enlarged to level beyond reasonable for the resolution, I think the horizontal bar is likely to wrap around the side sheeting (a bit like a staple) to contain a vaguely triangular hooped catch which slides up to clear the end bar. As you note, this bar seems to be bolted to the end door. On that basis the horizontal piece on the side is likely to be thicker than a washer plate given the forces at play. You can just about make out the joggle in the end knee washer plate which suggests it had some strength.

 

As you note, with separate catches each side, it would take two people to free the door (or one with some faith that the other catch was fully engaged as they ducked under the buffers to change sides). Presumably the sliding part had some locking mechanism although maybe the weight of coal pressing on the door plus gravity was enough at that time (it worked for side doors but they would not be subjected to the same forces when braking). 

 

An interesting prototype feature for Rapido and @Skinnylinny to pick anyway . . . 

[Andy Vincent]

29 minutes ago, Andy Vincent said:

Having stared (squinted?) further at it enlarged to level beyond reasonable for the resolution

As an alternative to squinting, Hudson volume 3, plate 100 clearly shows this arrangement on another (presumed) Hurst Nelson wagon for Nash & Co. of Royston, Herts. No safety catches are visible.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Andy Vincent said:

... As you note, with separate catches each side, it would take two people to free the door (or one with some faith that the other catch was fully engaged ...

Exactly the same as with the 'standard' arrangement of end door retaining pins ...... and for the side doors where a - not dissimilar - sliding catch is more common.

[Andy Vincent]

36 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Exactly the same as with the 'standard' arrangement of end door retaining pins

Very true - which I suppose suggests that the swivel version was the safest of them all since it generally only had a safety latch at one end. That said, I am not sure whether it really would allow operation from one end in practice, especially when closing, once the end door had moved away from being perfectly flat.

[JSpencer]

Comparisons.... I think it is safe to say that the Bachmann Collectors club of 3 SECR opens has now seen its day. The paintwork is generally too dark and obvious within a rake.  (the same can said of Hornby and Dapols standard wagons in SECR colours).

 

Rapido Maunsell 7 plank bottom (could do with a few more of these) vs Rapido RCH top:

 

 

Bachmann Collectors club right vs Rapido Left (that Bachmann is dark...)

 

 

 

Rapido top vs Bachmann bottom 

 

Bachmann left vs Rapido right

 

 

 

Bachmann top, rapido bottom

 

Edited April 23 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

Now in a train with mostly other Rapido wagons including the 3 RCH in late SECR, a pair of Bachmann ones and 3 Rails 1424 vans (of course the C class might see itself replaced at the head by an O1 at some point):

 

On an inner line, 3 early SE&CR RCH can be seen with 3 other early coloured SE&CR opens.

 

The free running of these wagons really allows us to capture the length of these mixed trains. No issues for the C pulling it all.

 

 

Edited April 23 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

Another pair RCH arrived today. The GW and GC ones.

 

One way to quickly add additional opens to a pre-grouping layout is to include a few from other railways. For the SECR, midland railway opens were a common sight, but I have also seen GC wagons too. And why not a GW version. The brakes on this pair are one-side only unlike the SECR versions which have brakes both sides. And the contrasting greys to boot....

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24 by JSpencer

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

One way to quickly add additional opens to a pre-grouping layout is to include a few from other railways. For the SECR, midland railway opens were a common site, 

 

A modeller of the SECR clamouring for Midland opens - music to my ears!

 

Although to be fair, balanced, and open minded, I think Great Northern ones would also be useful to you - there was a great deal of mineral traffic via both companies passing onto the SECR and LBSCR.

Edited April 24 by Compound2632

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A modeller of the SECR clamouring for Midland opens - music to my ears!

 

Although to be fair, balanced, and open minded, I think Great Northern ones would also be useful to you - there was a great deal of mineral traffic via both companies passing onto the SECR and LBSCR.

 

I'll take a few of both 😉

[JSpencer]

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A modeller of the SECR clamouring for Midland opens - music to my ears!

 

Although to be fair, balanced, and open minded, I think Great Northern ones would also be useful to you - there was a great deal of mineral traffic via both companies passing onto the SECR and LBSCR.

 

I do have a GN gunpowder van along with an NB one. These are quite bright compared to the drab SECR greys but plausible (I could of brought more Iron Minks but then it would look overpowering and non realistic).

 

An Earlier train today with the SE&CR RCH wagons, also the GC and GW RCH pair, a Rapido GWR 4 plank and some Rails 1424 vans and Rapido Gunpowder vans. I have too many 1424s (I only wanted the 5 SECR ones, but ended up with SR ones at the start that I repainted before later getting the SECR ones - you can see why I need more opens 😅).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25 by JSpencer

[Pre Grouping fan]

Another exclusive has been revealed over on Facebook

 

"We are delighted to announce that on Saturday 27th April we will launch for sale our G. Newington & Co. 5-Plank Wagon which has been produced exclusively for us by Rapido.

 

The limited edition run of 100 comes with a numbered certificate and will initially only be available by visiting the Carriage Shop at Horsted Keynes station.

 

All profits from the sale of this model are being donated to the Bluebell Railway Goods Division."

 

Edited April 25 by Pre Grouping fan

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

I do have a GN gunpowder van along with an NB one. These are quite bright compared to the drab SECR greys but plausible (I could of brought more Iron Minks but then it would look overpowering and non realistic).

 

An Earlier train today with the SE&CR RCH wagons, also the GC and GW RCH pair, a Rapido GWR 4 plank and some Rails 1424 vans and Rapido Gunpowder vans. I have too many 1424s (I only wanted the 5 SECR ones, but ended up with SR ones at the start that I repainted before later getting the SECR ones - you can see why I need more opens 😅).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do like your layout, and the way you run your trains right to the edge.  I have to do the same and will shortly be installing a protection barrier like yours, although mine will be a bit higher as it has to be grandchild proof.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

G. Newington & Co. 5-Plank Wagon

 

S. Turner, Private Owner Wagons of the South-East Part 2 (Lightmoor Press, 2022) pp. 146-7. Part view in a photo taken a Lewes c. 1905, with a sketch based thereupon. Turner reports that the firm had at least 14 wagons, numbered 100-113, hired from S.J. Claye of Long Eaton from 1895 until at least 1909, with No. 111 repaired by Claye in 1914 after being damaged by the LB&SCR. Nos. 106, 107, and 113 were recorded at Sheffield Park in Nov 1899 - Jan 1900, giving spot on topicality.

 

Rapido's 5-plank model is a good match for the wagon in the photo, as far as it can be seen, with side knee washer straps turning outwards at the bottom and external diagonal straps. There are two visible departures from the wagon in the photo: the lack of the half-round batten on the side rail below the door and the lack of wooden door stops - one can just about be made out in the photo, so they're shown on the sketch. These would be easy enough to add to the model. The rest is darkness; I'd want to find photos of other Claye-built 5-plankers of the period. Dimensions are also guesswork, I think. From the Midland Railway PO Wagon Registers, Claye was building in 1897 8-ton wagons with internal dimensions either 14' 6" x 7' 0" x 3' 1 1/2" or 15' 6" x 7' 0" x 2' 11", with full-height side doors (add 6" to length and width to get length over headstocks and width over side sheeting). Of course the wagon in the photo might not be one of Newington's 14 Claye wagons but there's no evidence the firm had any others.

 

Unless Rapido and the Bluebell have information not in Turner, the brown woodwork is a guess, as far as I can see, and a guess in the face of probability, which says grey is most likely! Also, from the photo in Turner, I think the lettering is shaded black - this is half-heartedly suggested by the sketch, which is faithfully reproduced by the model. The purchaser is left to supply their own number (LH end, bottom plank, I suppose), tare weight and Load 8 (probably) Tons (customarily LH and RH ends of the side rail, respectively) an registration plate on the solebar. The photo isn't sufficiently high resolution to read the oval owner's plate, which ought to tell us that it is S.J. Clay's; we also lack his builder's plate and perhaps a 'For Repairs Advise' plate. 

 

All nitpicking of course (not rivet-counting - no rivets in a PO wagon) on what is a very nicely-done model which I hope boosts the Bluebell Railway Goods Division's coffers so that more full-sized vehicles can be sympathetically restored and maintained. Things have certainly moved on from just a few years ago when such a commission would likely have used a 17' 6"-style wagon model with steel underframe and 10 ft wheelbase - mentioning no names but you know who I mean. (The horror! The horror!) 

Edited April 25 by Compound2632

[Andy Vincent]

40 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Things have certainly moved on from just a few years ago when such a commission would likely have used a 17' 6"-style wagon model with steel underframe and 10 ft wheelbase

 

I must admit that thought crossed my mind when @JSpencer commented that the Bachmann SECR wagon had perhaps had its day. I haven't had time to go and check - and it could just about be correct I suppose - but a SECR body on an RCH 1923 underframe (and an end door one at that) struck me as just a little odd!

 

On 23/04/2024 at 19:14, JSpencer said:

Rapido top vs Bachmann bottom 

 

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Andy Vincent said:

I must admit that thought crossed my mind when @JSpencer commented that the Bachmann SECR wagon had perhaps had its day. I haven't had time to go and check - and it could just about be correct I suppose - but a SECR body on an RCH 1923 underframe (and an end door one at that) struck me as just a little odd!

 

The Bachmann model is at least a very decent representation of an RCH 1923 specification wagon, right down to the post-war capping strip brackets, so if one was presented with the inappropriately SECR-liveried model one could at least get to work distressing it, obliterating the lettering, to end up with a decent model.

 

What I was alluding to is far, far, worse.

[No Decorum]

54 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

I do like your layout, and the way you run your trains right to the edge.  I have to do the same and will shortly be installing a protection barrier like yours, although mine will be a bit higher as it has to be grandchild proof.

 

You need to watch grandchildren; they are dangerous, though not necessarily in the way you’re thinking. Due to a complicated series of events, I found myself taking my ten-year-old grandson to a play in his cousin’s school. Later on, his mother phoned to ask where we were. When told that we had gone on directly after the performance, she knew what had happened. “******* attic!” Yep, we rolled in at ten, with school the following day. The trouble was, amongst all the locos large and small, he fell for Hornby’s Peckett Bear and said that he would buy one when he’s 18. I managed to find one for him, so he didn’t have to wait. I suppose I should count myself lucky that he didn’t take a fancy to a P2! Putty in his hands, I am. 😄

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

... no rivets in a PO wagon ...

Nuts .......... normally fewer to count anyway ! 🤪

[GreenGiraffe22]

7 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Another exclusive has been revealed over on Facebook

 

"We are delighted to announce that on Saturday 27th April we will launch for sale our G. Newington & Co. 5-Plank Wagon which has been produced exclusively for us by Rapido.

 

The limited edition run of 100 comes with a numbered certificate and will initially only be available by visiting the Carriage Shop at Horsted Keynes station.

 

All profits from the sale of this model are being donated to the Bluebell Railway Goods Division."

 

 

Excellent! I had heard a rumour from someone a long time ago that the reason there was a lack of Sussex wagons in the Rapido range was because the Bluebell might do some, I hope it's the first of many! Although I'm not sure I'll be able to get over to the railway any time soon 

Edited April 25 by GreenGiraffe22
Typo

[JSpencer]

5 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

 

I do like your layout, and the way you run your trains right to the edge.  I have to do the same and will shortly be installing a protection barrier like yours, although mine will be a bit higher as it has to be grandchild proof.

 

Thank you, mine is actually quite high standing 4ft off the ground. But yep, kids can quickly write off something if you are not careful. And one reason why I keep much of the old robust stuff!

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'd want to find photos of other Claye-built 5-plankers of the period.

 

Turton's Thirteenth Collection (Lightmoor Press, 2014) pp. 68-69 has an article on F. & R.H. Johnson of Derby, who had a number of S.J. Claye-built 5-plank, 8-ton wagons, including No. 16, a photograph of which appears; the date seems a bit ambiguous but to my eyes it has more the flavour of an 1890s wagon. Fortuitously, this photo appears on Lightmoor's website, advertising this volume:

 

 

[Embedded link]

 

This wagon has a number of points of similarity with the Newington wagon - the door filler piece and wooden stop-blocks - but differs in having the diagonal straps inside, rather than outside, the sheeting. Note how the diagonal strap terminates as a bolt projecting through the corner-plate.

Edited April 25 by Compound2632

[Mikkel]

Look at all those details. Hours and hours of modelling potential. Years, even.

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

On 25/04/2024 at 11:49, Compound2632 said:

 

 

20 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

Excellent! I had heard a rumour from someone a long time ago that the reason there was a lack of Sussex wagons in the Rapido range was because the Bluebell might do some, I hope it's the first of many! Although I'm not sure I'll be able to get over to the railway any time soon 

 

Being a member of the Goods Division I can confirm there was a plan to do a few different local wagons as exclusives for the main shop but it didn't work out in the end. Hopefully there will be more and maybe not restricted to the PO range.

 

We will have some on our online shop in a few weeks for those unable to get to the railway to purchaslockquote widget

Edited April 26 by Pre Grouping fan

[JSpencer]

Another 3 RCH received. This time POs from the south. I've mixed them into a train of other RCH (9 in total on this train alone) and other POs (Bachmann, Hornby, Oxford). Previous pics used a Grey C class or simplified Wainwright livery C class, now we step a little back in time with a full Wainwright livery C class and to top it all, we have top and tailed the train with Rapido 6 wheel brake vans (I thought I had brought too many of these, but the number is turning out to be just right).

 

One thing about mixing these different makes of PO, is that the rake looks very prototypical in having wagons of slightly different sizes.

 

 

[locoholic]

Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but if you are fitting loads to the Rapido RCH wagons, be careful to make the loads smaller than the internal dimensions - if it's too snug, the load will split the wagon body open - they are not a single piece moulding, and the sides and ends aren't joined very strongly.