RCH 1907 Private Owner Wagons - with added 2024 range.

[Dominion]

I just paid for 4 special commission wagons from Malc's models, and they will be on their way to Canada tomorrow.

The photos of the actual products on their website look really excellent.

https://malcsmodels.co.uk/collections/rapido-wagons

That link should show all 5 they have done. Here is one example.

 

 

Malc's has commissioned some very useful colliery wagons in the mix.

I hope they do well for them and I am very excited to receive mine.

Tom

[BenL]

Thanks for the link, Tom. As a postwar modeller, I have the Sherwood one on order as I’m sure the original artwork had the post-39 white diagonal stripe at the end door end - doesn’t seem to have made it onto the production model unfortunately.

[Kernow MRC]

KMRC have announced an Exclusive model as Moger & CO. Ltd - LB&SCR as per thread below

  

[Nile]

Derails also have some exclusive wagons here .

Anyone else?

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

6 minutes ago, Nile said:

Derails also have some exclusive wagons here .

Anyone else?

 

The Hobby Shop also has an exclusive - Tilmanstone Colliery, Kent.

Edited April 12 by greatcoleswoodhalt

[Dominion]

The Notts & Derby Pinxton wagon is a joint commission I think between TTC Diecast and Malcs models.

 

The Malc's website shows it as being sold out already but perhaps TTC Diecast have some left.

https://www.ttcdiecast.com/rapido---notts--derby-7-plank-wagon---ttcdiecast-x-malcs-models-exclusive-oo-gauge-172694-p.asp

Tom

 

[Dungrange]

20 hours ago, Dominion said:

The photos of the actual products on their website look really excellent.

https://malcsmodels.co.uk/collections/rapido-wagons

That link should show all 5 they have done. Here is one example.

 

 

Malc's has commissioned some very useful colliery wagons in the mix.

 

Can anyone advise which of these are in pre-grouping liveries?

[Wickham Green too]

Probably easier to ask which AREN'T ....... I've established that 967422 is based on a 1930 repaint ( though no idea what it looked like before ) and 967425 is based on a probably post WW2 photo - though, again earlier liveries may not have been significantly different.

[Oldddudders]

5 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

Can anyone advise which of these are in pre-grouping liveries?

Surely PO liveries and ownerships weren't directly affected by Grouping? 

[fulton]

8 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Surely PO liveries and ownerships weren't directly affected by Grouping? 

Yes, not directly affected by Grouping, but companies came and went, liveries for the same company changed over the years, in the current range, suitable pre grouping liveries are limited, I was interested in one PO wagon from Hornby because it sported "SE&CR", but then discovered that livery was applied in Southern Railway days, by the way the wagon chosen was completely incorrect.

[Dungrange]

Yes, the wagons were around from 1907, but that doesn't mean that the liveries that Rapido have applied date from that period.  Some are Edwardian period liveries, but others seem to definitely be post-Grouping.  I just can't tell which are which.

[AY Mod]

6 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Can anyone advise which of these are in pre-grouping liveries?

 

I'd say the best information would be the dates of photographs shown in Keith Turton's volumes indicating when the builder made and recorded them. It's not an answer but it's where to find it.

[Wickham Green too]

... together with other Lightmoor Press and Bill Hudson volumes.

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

... together with other Lightmoor Press and Bill Hudson volumes.

 

A starting point for finding the relevant photos being Joe Greaves' index:

https://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

[GreenGiraffe22]

Do we if anyone anywhere has commissioned any Sussex based PO wagons from Rapido? I know many have already been commissioned through Dapol over the years so sales might be limited, in fact I think South & Gasson no. 105 has been commissioned 3 different times through Dapol by 3 different companies, but I'm always on the look out for local Sussex Coast PO wagons 

[Oldddudders]

Not quite Sussex, but Screaming Alice, at least.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/85077/967233-Rapido-RCH-1907-7-Plank-Open-Wagon-number-232---Moger

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

A starting point for finding the relevant photos being Joe Greaves' index: https://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

indeed ...... this is my current understanding of the Rapido offer - personalised for the sources I've found and my desire for possible 1948 survivors ....

 

Rapido 1907.pdf

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

indeed ...... this is my current understanding of the Rapido offer - personalised for the sources I've found and my desire for possible 1948 survivors ....

 

Rapido 1907.pdf

 

Excellent list, emphasising that despite Rapido having carefully researched their wagons, they have been not much more particular about applying appropriate liveries than the bad big boys. 

 

I take it "twirly" stands for "too early", i.e. pre-1907 - though these Gloucester GW and GC hire examples may be of the same or very similar dimensions as the model?

 

I've been looking in the MR PO Wagon Registers at TNA, mostly at the period around 1900 - two years or so either way - so a few years before the 1907 specification. The vast majority of registrations are of 10 ton wagons, many 16 ft over headstocks. (And the great majority colliery company wagons.) Many entries are marked up with withdrawal dates (and what I take to be reference codes for the withdrawal instructions), these dates being mostly in 1946 - 1949. Whether this means that wagons without such notes were still in service after 1949, I don't know.

[KAR 120C]

I’ve also had a problem dating some of these wagons.  The following may help in certain cases:

 

A yellow square with two ‘CC’s in black superimposed on it signifies that a ‘commuted charge’ payment has been made by the wagon owner.  This was introduced in 1926.

A yellow star also signifies that a ‘commuted charge’ payment has been made by the wagon owner.  This was introduced in 1933.

(This topic was considered back in 2012 in the ‘Private Owner Wagon Marking’ thread under UK Prototype Questions).

 

If the wagon carries a postal address and it includes a number after the postal district letters e.g. London E.C.1.  then the wagon’s livery dates from 1917 at the earliest.  The Post Office only introduced numbers in that year.

 

I must admit I’ve also resorted to squinting at the manufacturers’ plates on various wagons on the Rapido website so I can at least try to identify the year of construction although I acknowledge that this still doesn’t mean that the liveries date from the same year!

[Wickham Green too]

Conversely, sometimes you get a conspicuous dated board in front of the wagon that is a repaint date and the wagon itself might be a lot older ! .... yer needs yer wits abaht yer.

[46444]

Derails 'Forest of Dean' special editions arrived this morning.

 

 

Excellent Rapido finish on both.

 

These are both limited editions from Derails.

 

 

 

 

Brilliant service from Derails. Well recommended. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

*Did I mention Derails????...

Edited April 13 by 46444

[RapidoCorbs]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Excellent list, emphasising that despite Rapido having carefully researched their wagons, they have been not much more particular about applying appropriate liveries than the bad big boys. 

 

 

Ouch :(

We thought we had put a lot of time and effort into trying to get a selection of regions, owners and colours balanced against an as-close-as-possible tooling suite (29 different part combinations in the range). We've tried to be up front that there are some compromises (e.g. body length within limits, strapping details, small differences between builders) and we did not want it to seem as though we just slapped any old livery on any generic wagon.

[Andy Hayter]

22 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I'd say the best information would be the dates of photographs shown in Keith Turton's volumes indicating when the builder made and recorded them. It's not an answer but it's where to find it.

 

Andy

I appreciate the sentiment of people doing some of their own research, but your suggestion is how many volumes of Turton times how much average cost per volume?  I suspect it comes to a very substantial cost that will prevent many from having the resource to buy any of these wagons. 

 

I would have hoped that Rapido - or its commissioners - would have been able to provide some rough dates for its potential customers .  It seems they have fallen into the Dapmannby trap of producing pretty wagons with no background data.  

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh on you and Rapido.

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

Ouch :(

We thought we had put a lot of time and effort into trying to get a selection of regions, owners and colours balanced against an as-close-as-possible tooling suite (29 different part combinations in the range). We've tried to be up front that there are some compromises (e.g. body length within limits, strapping details, small differences between builders) and we did not want it to seem as though we just slapped any old livery on any generic wagon.

 

Well, to be specific, way back upthread in response to a comment of mine about the latitude remaining to builders within the 1907 specification, Linny said:

 

On 16/03/2023 at 13:03, RapidoLinny said:

The two bodies we're offering are modelled on a Charles Roberts 7-plank (16' over headstocks, with end doors and lift-bar end catch), and a Thomas Burnett 5-plank (also 16' over headstocks, with side doors only).

 

But the liveries chosen are not exclusively those of Chas Roberts 7-plankers and Thos Burnett 5-plankers... (Unless I have missed variations in the tooling introduced since the first announcement.) The comparison with the big bad boys is, I confess, unfair since their vice is to put liveries culled from 8 and 10 ton pre-1923 wagons on their (however nice) 12 ton 1923 specification wagons, to the ludicrous extent of leaving on the 8 or 10 ton makings and unfeasible tare weights; at least all your non-fictional liveries are being put on wagons of the stated capacity.

 

I did try a second career as a secondary science teacher - I wasn't very good at it. One failing that was noticed was that I wasn't good at giving praise - I was too prone to take good work for granted. ("Dr Lea doesn't give many stars does he?" was a Year 8's comment reported back to me.) So let me try to make amends by saying that as far as I can see (not having handled one of these models in the flesh) they are very good and in every respect an enormous leap forward compared to any previously-produced pre-RCH 1923 specification PO wagon. My niggles about specific liveries, not a great enough proportion of colliery-owned wagons, etc. are at the grade 7/8 boundary, not the grade 3/4 boundary!

 

Anyway, you should take no notice of my puritanical posturing, since I am not your market for these models: I model 1902, or try too, within my limited skills. 

Edited April 13 by Compound2632

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Andy

I appreciate the sentiment of people doing some of their own research, but your suggestion is how many volumes of Turton times how much average cost per volume?  I suspect it comes to a very substantial cost that will prevent many from having the resource to buy any of these wagons. 

 

I would have hoped that Rapido - or its commissioners - would have been able to provide some rough dates for its potential customers .  It seems they have fallen into the Dapmannby trap of producing pretty wagons with no background data.  

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh on you and Rapido.

 

I understand your drive here Andy, but I personally think your expectations are a little high.  I know model manufacturers place a "potted history" with their product, but the sphere is so huge, you cannot really cover the "life and times" of the 7 plank 1907 in less than the Turton volumes.  Surely this is all about the purchaser doing their own research, with a basic provision from Rapido. Also, how many purchasers actually care to your extent ?

 

My modelling period is around 1960 to 1974 so the remaining NCB internal users were in their last decade of use, on a private colliery railway branch.  The Rapido product I see is a fantastic canvas for practising my weathering skills, and I suppose it is easy for me t buy half a dozen "St Andrews cross" examples which wont be going far behind my NCB locos.