I won't use waterslide transfers because of the visible carrier-film!

[cctransuk]

How many times have you heard that?

 

 

 

 

Photos copyright Pete Hill - thanks Pete.

 

As most members will know, I don't 'DO' bespoke transfers - well, except on the very few occasions that I do! I must have been in a receptive mood when Pete Hill asked me to do some lettering for the S160 he was building - and I do have a soft spot for the prototype.

 

Anyway, the above photos show what a superb job Pete made of his model and, incidently, show that "I won't use waterslide transfers because of the visible carrier-film!" is a load of rubbish!

 

As Pete says, "I must admit, I thought the carrier film may be slightly visible, but it is not, and neither are the edges where they were cut from the sheet, following your advice on how to cut them!!

 

So - those members who have spoken the title of this thread - you could not ask for better proof of the fallacy of that opinion than the above photos! White lettering on a satin / matt black finish is THE hardest test of the visibility or otherwise of transfer carrier film.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

[Bucoops]

I know you won't but I still have hope that one day you produce a range of LNER transfers 🙂

[cctransuk]

20 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

I know you won't but I still have hope that one day you produce a range of LNER transfers 🙂

 

To do the job properly, one would need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of LNER liveries - and that I don't have, unfortunately.

 

Sorry,

John.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

To do the job properly, one would need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of LNER liveries - and that I don't have, unfortunately.

 

Sorry,

John.

 

As I said, I know you won't - it's not a criticism :)

[micklner]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

To do the job properly, one would need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of LNER liveries - and that I don't have, unfortunately.

 

Sorry,

John.

The way things are currently  with Transfers from other makers Modelmaster ( keep away/or give up)  and HMRS poor line up/quality you are missing a lot of potential sales ( if youwant the extra work).

As to research, most modellers know the subject they want the decals for. Therefore they provide the details and the job is already half done.

The LNER other than the Loco and Coach multicolured  lettering/numbers, are mainly variations in sizes in  White ,  therefore unless you have the correct printer , they are a nightmare for anyone to produce via home computers.

[cctransuk]

39 minutes ago, micklner said:

The way things are currently  with Transfers from other makers Modelmaster ( keep away/or give up)  and HMRS poor line up/quality you are missing a lot of potential sales ( if youwant the extra work).

As to research, most modellers know the subject they want the decals for. Therefore they provide the details and the job is already half done.

The LNER other than the Loco and Coach multicolured  lettering/numbers, are mainly variations in sizes in  White ,  therefore unless you have the correct printer , they are a nightmare for anyone to produce via home computers.

 

Mick,

 

I know all the arguments pro LNER transfers - and for that matter, any pre-Nat. railway.

 

Put succinctly, at my mid-70s, providing transfers is not critical to our finances, and it competes with my own modelling; (age also affects my modelling mojo).

 

If I were younger, and had to hand a knowledgeable colleague versed in all things pre-nationalisation, I might consider it - but even so, it would be a herculean task; (as Railtec has discovered).

 

In my experience, the market for transfers for the current prime modelling era - BR steam era - has a value which funds holidays / railway modelling purchases, rather than a full-time income.

 

I have reason to believe that demand for transfers for earlier periods would be smaller, so I cannot see a comprehensive range of transfers becoming available any time soon.

 

Sorry to be pessimistic - but that's how I see it.

 

John Isherwood.

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

the above photos show what a superb job Pete made of his model and, incidently, show that "I won't use waterslide transfers because of the visible carrier-film!" is a load of rubbish!

Surely anyone who makes that claim is totally unaware of how to apply waterslide transfers properly anyway? (i.e. on to a gloss finish, use decal softener products, and matt varnish afterwards).

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, F-UnitMad said:

Surely anyone who makes that claim is totally unaware of how to apply waterslide transfers properly anyway? (i.e. on to a gloss finish, use decal softener products, and matt varnish afterwards).

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

Unfortunately, such a suggestion is insulting / unacceptable to many otherwise skilled modellers!

 

CJI.

[railtec-models]

That's a belting result. As you say - just goes to show, with the right preparation, the results that can be achieved.

[Darius43]

On 14/04/2023 at 19:15, F-UnitMad said:

Surely anyone who makes that claim is totally unaware of how to apply waterslide transfers properly anyway? (i.e. on to a gloss finish, use decal softener products, and matt varnish afterwards).

Before returning to railway modelling I made a large number of aircraft models.  That is precisely the way to avoid decal carrier film “silvering”.   I can’t think why anyone would have objections to this method.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Human8984]

On 14/04/2023 at 17:12, micklner said:

HMRS poor line up/quality

Can you elaborate on that? ive not had much of an issue with HMRS stuff. Then again, im not an expert on the matter by any means 

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Human8984 said:

Can you elaborate on that? ive not had much of an issue with HMRS stuff. Then again, im not an expert on the matter by any means 

 

It has been widely reported that more recent supplies of HMRS transfers suffer from poor registration of the differently colours.

 

CJI.

[JaymzHatstand]

On 16/04/2023 at 20:44, Darius43 said:

I can’t think why anyone would have objections to this method

 

Because those who tend to be most vociferous on the subject tend to think they know the lot, and don't need to learn anything different as their methods are obviously correct, it's the product that's wrong!

 

There's certainly much that can be learned across the various modelling spheres, as they say, everyday is an education!

 

Cheers

 

J

[cctransuk]

24 minutes ago, JaymzHatstand said:

 

Because those who tend to be most vociferous on the subject tend to think they know the lot, and don't need to learn anything different as their methods are obviously correct, it's the product that's wrong!

 

There's certainly much that can be learned across the various modelling spheres, as they say, everyday is an education!

 

Cheers

 

J

 

In my experience, the naysayers are also the ones to whom GLOSS is anathema.

 

The fact that you can apply any degree of NON-GLOSS after the transfers have been applied seems to escape them.

 

There's nowt so queer as folk ......

 

John Isherwood.

[uax6]

The late, great Colin Parks used to actually remove the carrier film after he had applied the transfer. I can't quite remember how, but its in his thread on his 4-sub and other emu builds....

 

Andy G

[cctransuk]

9 hours ago, uax6 said:

The late, great Colin Parks used to actually remove the carrier film after he had applied the transfer. I can't quite remember how, but its in his thread on his 4-sub and other emu builds....

 

Andy G

 

That only works if the carrier film is printed over the design.

 

CJI.

[Enterprisingwestern]

36 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

That only works if the carrier film is printed over the design.

 

CJI.

 

I believe only on certain ones in the Modelmaster range too.

Your solid transfers, ie not individual lettering, can have the surface film removed before applying, as I'm sure you're very aware!, a useful aspect.

 

Mike.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I believe only on certain ones in the Modelmaster range too.

Your solid transfers, ie not individual lettering, can have the surface film removed before applying, as I'm sure you're very aware!, a useful aspect.

 

Mike.

 

Really?!?  Do tell?

 

My transfers are printed onto waterslide clear carrier film - surely attempting to remove the film would dislodge the design?

 

John Isherwood.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Really?!?  Do tell?

 

My transfers are printed onto waterslide clear carrier film - surely attempting to remove the film would dislodge the design?

 

John Isherwood.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge, I'm probably confusing yours with inferior alternatives, I blame my rampantly advancing senility.

 

Mike.

[cctransuk]

11 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I bow to your superior knowledge, I'm probably confusing yours with inferior alternatives, I blame my rampantly advancing senility.

 

Mike.

 

I think that you are thinking of M*delm*ster !

 

(Gone for the mouthwash)!

 

John Isherwood.

[Mr T]

I am still surprised that people come out with this one. My main interest is aircraft modelling, and the gloss varnish, decal softeners, or even the use of a thinned varnish has been around since the mid 1970s at least. As an example, I recently finished a 1/72nd scale RAF Phantom and an Argosy. The former is covered with small stencils and the the latter had a lot of home made decals and no silvering on either of them. BTW if anyone think all 'Airfix' kits are easy, Google Mach2, which was the source of my Argosy kit. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Mr T

[Wheatley]

It was indeed Modelmaster who reckoned you could peel the carrier film off afterwards. I had a 25% success rate when I tried it so now I don't bother. 

 

What doesn't help is that those of us brought up on Humbrol Authentic Colour were led to believe that all paint should be dead flat matt, and old habits die hard. To my knowledge the only range of military colours which comes in high gloss is Hannants Xtracrylic/Xtranamel, everything else you have to faff about with varnish or Kleer. Railway modellers have it a bit easier with Precision etc. 

 

Incidentally, if decal setting solution doesn't work try making some pin holes in the silvered bits and introducing a bit of liquid polystyrene cement. Obviously try the tamer ones first before you attack it with butanol ...

 

As for Mach 2, ifvit looks anything like an Argosy  I applaud you ! My Dassault Falcon 20 remains unfinished after 20 years, it shouldn't be necessary to correct a plastic kit 8 inches long to get both sides the same length ! 

[cctransuk]

38 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

... everything else you have to faff about with varnish or Kleer.

 

How difficult can it be to apply a coat of Klear - it's so thin it self-levels; even when brush-applied.

 

It's not even necessary to apply a coat of Klear to the whole model - just where the decals are to be located.

 

..... and, with practice, the decals can be individually applied into patches of wet Klear, and over-painted with a little more Klear; all as one operation taking seconds.

 

Once the overcoat of Klear is dry; (a couple of minutes); you can overspray with whatever final finish you choose.

 

Contrary to 'received wisdom', you cannot apply waterslide decals to a matt surface without trapping air (silvering) under the carrier film - because a matt surface, by definition, is a microscopic landscape of peaks and troughs.

 

John Isherwood.

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

How difficult can it be to apply a coat of Klear - it's so thin it self-levels; even when brush-applied.

It isn't difficult at all, it's exactly what I do, but people give it one coat and it still silvers so they denounce it as snake oil and flounce off. I've just finished a Spitfire and Hurricane for FiL, they got 5 or 6 coats of Kleer brushed on under the squadron codes and the damn things still silvered. But then Humbrol 29 is notoriously dead flat. 

Sorted (i hope !) and waiting for the final coat of matt varnish and some weathering.

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

It isn't difficult at all, it's exactly what I do, but people give it one coat and it still silvers so they denounce it as snake oil and flounce off. I've just finished a Spitfire and Hurricane for FiL, they got 5 or 6 coats of Kleer brushed on under the squadron codes and the damn things still silvered. But then Humbrol 29 is notoriously dead flat. 

Sorted (i hope !) and waiting for the final coat of matt varnish and some weathering.

 

Pluck up your courage and try my 'apply decals into wet Klear' approach; this eliminates the need to apply Klear anywhere but under and over the decals.

 

CJI.